New Cobra buyer - Questions - Driving Them...

[AdamIsAdam]

Hey,
I've been reading EVERYTHING I can get my hands on for the last few months in my quest to buy a Cobra. I've driven two and looked at many others, and I have a few questions about driving the different versions:

I drove a Superformance with 240 miles on it. Short story is that the owner bought his dream car and then got ill before he could enjoy it. (Moral of THAT story is buy while you're well enough to enjoy it!).

Anyway, the car is gorgeous. The widow loved it and was pretty knowledgeable. It drove fine except that the clutch was really very stiff. So stiff that there's no engagement feel. And my leg was starting to cramp pretty quickly. I'm no wuss about driving old cars (have a few fast cars myself).

It's a 347 build with a Tremec, TKO600 I think. Not sure about what clutch it is.

Is this a pedal design (angle of pedal assembly) or perhaps is this car just unusually stiff? It's not hydraulic.

I also drove a FFR and I don't recall that clutch being anything distracting. It was a little stiff of course, being cable operated, but not horrific.

Also, the Superformance was sort of a sideways fit. Typical, I know. The Backdraft I sat in was ridiculously sideways with that huge tranny tunnel. The FFR was just a little sideways.

Please provide feedback on different Cobra brands inherent tendencies as to driving position and comfort (ie, clutch pedal stiffness).

The one I drove today was bad enough that I will walk away from it, unless it can be saved with just a new clutch.

TIA for your input.

Adam

PS I should say that I'm looking for a fun weekend car. I don't really care how authentic or correct the car is to a degree. I prefer it to be fun, safe (meaning, it won't fall apart, not safe in the sense of: I know I need to respect the Snake's high power to weight ratio and short wheelbase. I'm not new at this game )

THANKS!

[Lou1119]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Hey,
I've been reading EVERYTHING I can get my hands on for the last few months in my quest to buy a Cobra. I've driven two and looked at many others, and I have a few questions about driving the different versions:

I drove a Superformance with 240 miles on it. Short story is that the owner bought his dream car and then got ill before he could enjoy it. (Moral of THAT story is buy while you're well enough to enjoy it!).

Anyway, the car is gorgeous. The widow loved it and was pretty knowledgeable. It drove fine except that the clutch was really very stiff. So stiff that there's no engagement feel. And my leg was starting to cramp pretty quickly. I'm no wuss about driving old cars (have a few fast cars myself).

It's a 347 build with a Tremec, TKO600 I think. Not sure about what clutch it is.

Is this a pedal design (angle of pedal assembly) or perhaps is this car just unusually stiff? It's not hydraulic.

I also drove a FFR and I don't recall that clutch being anything distracting. It was a little stiff of course, being cable operated, but not horrific.

Also, the Superformance was sort of a sideways fit. Typical, I know. The Backdraft I sat in was ridiculously sideways with that huge tranny tunnel. The FFR was just a little sideways.

Please provide feedback on different Cobra brands inherent tendencies as to driving position and comfort (ie, clutch pedal stiffness).

The one I drove today was bad enough that I will walk away from it, unless it can be saved with just a new clutch.

TIA for your input.

Adam

PS I should say that I'm looking for a fun weekend car. I don't really care how authentic or correct the car is to a degree. I prefer it to be fun, safe (meaning, it won't fall apart, not safe in the sense of: I know I need to respect the Snake's high power to weight ratio and short wheelbase. I'm not new at this game )

THANKS!

I have an SPF and it surprises me as Light the clutch is for this beast. The clutch in the car is a McCloud. I would check the owner as to which clutch is in the car. From what I know the clutch should not be that stiff.

[twobjshelbys]

A 240 mile car is done but not finished. All of them require "sorting out", with clutch and brakes being the very first on the list. First thing I'd do is bleed it. Also, does it have a classic master/slave or is it HTOB? (HTOB doesn't get good marks here.)

Frankly, if you've got the lead on the SPF car and being an estate issue, you can probably get a very good deal on it. I'd stick with that first.

SPF will get you higher resale and easier resale down the road.

[MKS427]

[quote=AdamIsAdam;1470567]Hey,

Also, the Superformance was sort of a sideways fit. Typical, I know. The Backdraft I sat in was ridiculously sideways with that huge tranny tunnel. The FFR was just a little sideways.

If you are looking for a roomier car, I believe the Classic Roadster (no longer in production) has a 96" wheelbase. You will see the stretch/difference in the front portion of the doors. The interiors are wider and longer, I am told by an owner.

As Tony stated, the Superformance will hold it's value better. Superformance cars are all built as rolling chassis, so they were all built to the same standard. They are definitely roomier than my FFR MkIV.

An FFR should be less $. However, with the different options between donor build to full kit with coil overs, brake options, live axle vs IRS, and workmanship to consider you will want to make sure to avoid getting a pig with lipstick. I have a MkIV full kit with live axle, it's a great car, but I built it the way I wanted with all new parts.

Good luck
Mark

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

I've driven two and looked at many others, and I have a few questions about driving the different versions:

...

Is this a pedal design (angle of pedal assembly) or perhaps is this car just unusually stiff? It's not hydraulic.

Generally speaking, the more you spend the more you'll get. SPF cars can be good, but you can also do better. Do yourself a favor and test out a really well sorted out ERA/KMS/CSX car and then benchmark everything else against it. And I didn't even know you could get a SPF with a non-hydraulic clutch, unless you were referring to a non-HTOB clutch. A properly set up master/slave/fork based clutch will be reasonably easy on your leg and hold your horsepower.

[AdamIsAdam]

The widow's car is listed with a broker here:
https://www.webeautos.com/details-19...d-ny69972.html

They're asking $65k. I'm looking to spend less.

Can you tell by the pics if it's hydraulic clutch? Is that master cylinder on the firewall for brakes or clutch? I'm not familiar with these cars enough to know.

[AdamIsAdam]

Our posts were at the same time.

Ok, so it makes sense. I think you're saying that the hydraulic clutch needs to be rebuilt. That would make sense for a car sitting unused for 12 years.

I'd prefer to spend as close to $40k as possible and I'm good with a well sorted, well built FFR. My concern is finding a well built one, and then it's resale value later on. I get it that FFR will have lower resale than SPF, but if it starts at a much lower price point, there's a lower risk factor as well. But mostly, I want to enjoy owning and driving the car. This is not an investment, per se.

[patrickt]

You can tell from this pic that it has an external fork and hydraulic slave. It's just probably not set up right or the pressure plate was a poor choice. My advice would be not to get in over your head until you get some experience with these cars.

[t walgamuth]

There is a shredded looking place in the center, suggesting some basic misalignment there. If the pivot point is broken off it will change the leverage drastically and make the pedal very hard to push. The hydraulic cylinder also could be the wrong diameter giving poor leverage.

[Alfa02]

Adam, how long has this 240 mile SPF been sitting? As someone that had a chance to buy a 2001 ERA 427s/o with 6100 miles, that had sat for 10+years, the first 2years the mileage was put on. This ERA leaked everywhere, Motor, Gearbox, Rear end, Brakes, after less then 2-300 miles after being put back in driving cond. Dodged a huge bullet. We have a (2004) 930 mile SPF here in the PNW that I can't find a buyer for 40K because of the same thing (No leak's, but also no miles put on it yet). The owner thought he would make a killing selling a low mileage SPF, he's heartbroken, that he will lose 1000's of dollars rather then driving & enjoying it. Be very careful. P.S. I've driven many SPF all the clutches were light, and easy to use. Cheers Tom.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You can tell from this pic that it has an external fork and hydraulic slave. It's just probably not set up right or the pressure plate was a poor choice. My advice would be not to get in over your head until you get some experience with these cars.

Thanks for the insight. I'm learning as I go. But I'm also not going to wait forever like the owner of this car did. He only got 200 miles on the car before he died.

I am a quick study. And I'm hoping/relying on the kindness of forum friends to help me through the buying process. And the ownership thereafter.

I hope this note comes across the right way. I'm asking for help and very appreciative of any I get.

I was trying to use this Superformance as my benchmark. It drove worse than the FFR I drove, as I said.

Originally Posted by Alfa02

Adam, how long has this 240 mile SPF been sitting? As someone that had a chance to buy a 2001 ERA 427s/o with 6100 miles, that had sat for 10+years, the first 2years the mileage was put on. This ERA leaked everywhere, Motor, Gearbox, Rear end, Brakes, after less then 2-300 miles after being put back in driving cond. Dodged a huge bullet. We have a (2004) 930 mile SPF here in the PNW that I can't find a buyer for 40K because of the same thing (No leak's, but also no miles put on it yet). The owner thought he would make a killing selling a low mileage SPF, he's heartbroken, that he will lose 1000's of dollars rather then driving & enjoying it. Be very careful. P.S. I've driven many SPF all the clutches were light, and easy to use. Cheers Tom.

Tom,
Yes, exactly what I was looking for, a car that's been sitting and developing leaks, etc. I've seen it before as well. I'm not sure exactly how long it's been since the owner died before the nice widow finally decided to sell, but it's a while. She actually said she just had the car gone over to get it ready for sale. I didn't get into what was done, but yes, I agree, when you buy a car that's been sitting, it can be just as expensive to bring up to good working order as a car with high mileage.

[patrickt]

Nothing wears a car out like neglect.

[Alfa02]

We're here for you Adam. Most of us are OLD & Retired so nothing better to do (except for patrickt, he's just a kid ) and us in the PNW can't drive our (Winter) cars anyway. Cheers Tom, or to the AZ boys (TommyRot)

[FredG]

Take your time and do your research. Know what you want before you go looking. I took me almost 2 years to decide on a car. You have a lot of options. Regardless of which car you decide to purchase, it will take a little getting used to driving it but you will adapt quickly. The interiors are small, the seats a little crooked, the pedals close together and you will learn your own special procedure to get in and out of the car etc but you will adapt and not even notice. The cars can be intimidatingly fast and exhilarating to drive. They are also a blast to work on. Keep in mind that there is no substitute for horsepower and it will be the hardest upgrade to make down the road. Good luck.

Fred

[AdamIsAdam]

THANKS EVERYONE for the support and advice. I've been wanting one of these cars all my life.

I also wanted a 911. I bought one 2 years ago. I thought I would get an 80's air cooled, but after driving one I didn't like it. So I drove a 996 and loved it. I bought a 1999 Factory Aero with sport suspension, sport seats and enough carbon fiber, leather and fun options to push the $65k base price to $102k in 1999.

I really enjoy driving it, but it's different than that muscle car feel I enjoy most. And equally important is the fact that it's just so hard to work on at home. So it's going on BaT as soon as they finish the ad.

Bucket item checked off. On to the next one, which I hope I will enjoy more, and for longer.

Here are a few pics:

[Jim Vander Wal]

It's not the car, it's the clutch. Superformace cars are or should be all hydraulic. Hyd master and hyd slave or hyd throw-out. I've never seen or heard of anything other than a hydraulic system installed in one.

There are a variety of clutch/pressure plate options depending on preferences and required torque ratings. Driving type & style will make some difference in the unit selected. There will be great differences in pedal pressure depending on the unit.

It could also be that the hydraulic system has degraded. Changing the master cylinder is a PITA as it's behind the brake system but doable. The slave cylinder is easy from under the car. Bleeding the system isn't particularly difficult and will gravity bleed.

You can change a Superformance clutch & trans through the trans tunnel & interior, no need to pull the motor. You'll have to break the tunnel sealant and carpet loose, this isn't usually fun.

Superformance cars will generally hold their value better as indicated in earlier responses.

Jim

[AdamIsAdam]

Thanks. Yea, this makes sense. It's funny, because I was trying to compare the overall quality and driving feel of the Superformance to the Factory Five to see if I thought it was worth the difference in cost.

The car drove fine, felt underwhelming in terms of power surprisingly, even though it ran well (no clutch slipping or anything like that, just not "Cobra" strong). The clutch was stiff obviously. The interior under the dash was a little bit of a wiring mess, the panel above my knees was loose. The car didn't start without a jump even though it was cranking. And then took a while to fill the carb bowls and fire. But once on, ran ok, especially for a car that sat so long.

Oh but the wiper WASHER worked! LOL. That was funny when the broker hit that switch by accident. Everything worked as far as I could tell.

Overall, I didn't see it being worth $65k vs the $45k or so I can spend for a similar FFR. So that's sort of my dilemma. Is a Superformance or ERA worth a $15-25k price difference over a well built Factory Five? That's over 40% more money to buy. How will depreciation affect both? Enough to get back (or not lose) the purchase price? Meaning, if I compare spending $65k vs $45k car in 5 years, what's the ROI on both?

I'm looking at one FFR locally that was fully built by the FFR factory, so it's professionally built and that can be documented. If I got it for $45k, is that a smarter buy than a $65k Superformance?

Again, I am fully aware that this is a hobby and not my 401k. We are all on the same page there. I just want to make the above comparison and welcome input from those who have been in this market longer than I.

Thanks!

[MKS427]

Originally Posted by AdamIsAdam

Thanks.

The car drove fine, felt underwhelming in terms of power surprisingly

I'm looking at one FFR locally that was fully built by the FFR factory, so it's professionally built and that can be documented. If I got it for $45k, is that a smarter buy than a $65k Superformance?

Thanks!

The smarter buy can only be determined through hindsight. You might look at which one you know you will be happy with, and hope you don't end up upside down in the end. You have to determine, if you compromise, will you be happy with what you have?

The 350 horse 351W is a budget motor and the reason for the underwhelming performance. Given the engine, it may not sell for 65K, but no guarantees. You may ask how low they are willing to go, if it's your first choice. Good news is, a 550-580 hp 427 Dart will bolt right in, but you're spending GOOD money to upgrade. You could upgrade the 351W to a 408 stroker, 500-550 (budget-high end) hp, a great cost effective alternative. Some people will build a 427 stroker in a 351W, but that is something I would not recommend.

Does the FFR have a Coyote? I've heard good things, but no first hand experience.

Good luck

[Alfa02]

Adam, if you would like to PM me, I can get you in touch with our seller here. The car is a 2004 SPF, 392 Ford crate motor, TKO-600, Wildwood in front, Red with White Stripes, 930 miles. You could get it for say 40K, (You could even fly back here, cheap airfare) have it shipped back, even if everything leak's, you wouldn't have 20K more into it. Just a thought, I also know of a JCF 427 bodied car, 351, TKO-600, Red, 1600 miles for 30-35K in Ore. Cheers Tom. We have 4-5 SPF guys here that have owned their cars for 10+years, if you would like to talk to them.

[AdamIsAdam]

Originally Posted by MKS427

The smarter buy can only be determined through hindsight. You might look at which one you know you will be happy with, and hope you don't end up upside down in the end. You have to determine, if you compromise, will you be happy with what you have?

The 350 horse 351W is a budget motor and the reason for the underwhelming performance. Given the engine, it may not sell for 65K, but no guarantees. You may ask how low they are willing to go, if it's your first choice. Good news is, a 550-580 hp 427 Dart will bolt right in, but you're spending GOOD money to upgrade. You could upgrade the 351W to a 408 stroker, 500-550 (budget-high end) hp, a great cost effective alternative. Some people will build a 427 stroker in a 351W, but that is something I would not recommend.

Does the FFR have a Coyote? I've heard good things, but no first hand experience.

Good luck

I would expect to NOT be needing a new motor if I'm spending $65k otherwise I'd do this brand new and order a roller.

The FFR is not a Coyote. I can't bring myself to do that. It may drive great, but opening that hood and seeing plastic is NOT my idea of a Cobra. Sorry. Besides, I've got a 2018 GT350 in the garage, so I can get my fix of modern muscle that way. (BTW, note that the Voodoo motor comes from the factor sans plastic engine cover, like g-d intended )

Originally Posted by Alfa02

Adam, if you would like to PM me, I can get you in touch with our seller here. The car is a 2004 SPF, 392 Ford crate motor, TKO-600, Wildwood in front, Red with White Stripes, 930 miles. You could get it for say 40K, (You could even fly back here, cheap airfare) have it shipped back, even if everything leak's, you wouldn't have 20K more into it. Just a thought, I also know of a JCF 427 bodied car, 351, TKO-600, Red, 1600 miles for 30-35K in Ore. Cheers Tom. We have 4-5 SPF guys here that have owned their cars for 10+years, if you would like to talk to them.

PM sent. I'm interested.