New Shelby Cobras?? - Page 7

BANDIT 1 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-24-2003, 06:03 PM

Mr. Real 1:

I know several people and companies that build race cars and each has their opinion on the different Cobra's. I don't come here and repeat what everyone has said because it just wouldn't be right (in my opinion...). What I have always said about each Cobra manufacturer is that I think they all have their own place in the Cobra eco-system. I have only stated why I bought my Superformance Cobra and what I am looking for in my next Cobra. In my view a CSX, ERA, and Superformance Cobra all have different reasons for being purchased. Quite simply they are three different cars. Most of the ERA Cobra owners I know have fantastic looking Cobra's that look almost exactly like a "original" Cobra and they drive their cars alot. Most of the CSX owners I have met very rarely drive their cars. Now if someone picks the ERA over a new CSX for the simple reason that they would not want to drive the CSX around, why does there have to be a "negative" against either car.

By the way, I defend the CSX cars all of the time. I have always said that a new CSX Cobra is a "real" Shelby Cobra and not a "replica".

Tout · #2 (**permalink**) 10-24-2003, 08:18 PM

"REAL" and "CONTINUATION" are not the same and never will be,SAAC sees it this way,thats why the word continuation seperates the two. Tout

TerrysSPF · #3 (**permalink**) 10-24-2003, 10:25 PM

Came home today, went to the mailbox, pulled out a large envelope from SHELBY AMERICAN INC. ....Got my sales info in the mail that I asked for!! No good picture of the new SA roller, but I do have the pricing for all the extra's / options though!. Going through the parts list, it looks to be good stuff. They sent me a price list for the other cars they offer, as well.
Also, I asked for a price list of the 427 Aluminum goodies.
.......Now THAT'S good stuff!
Gives me lot's to think about - that's for sure!

I'm going to try and get ahold of Gary tomorrow to ask some more questions. I'd still like to see the product 1st, though.

REAL 1 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-25-2003, 10:14 AM

Mr. Bandit: I don't repeat what "everyone" says. I provided this information on this occassion because it was relevant to the point discussed and the individual making it is very knowledgable and unbiased as noted.

Tout: Both series are considered REAL Cobras by SAAC. Thats clear. Both series are distinguished from each other as they should be with the new series being referred to as the continuation series. Simple stuff.

As to most CSX owners never driving their cars, I don't know where you get your data or information from but I can't respond since I don't know whether or not most CSX owners rarely drive their cars or not.

I can tell you that I'm driving my car today and it happens to be parked outside my office window right now.

BlueRooster · #5 (**permalink**) 10-25-2003, 11:38 AM

The continuation cars are definately "Real". The CAV cars on the other hand....I dont know, I guess they are. Next thing you know CS takes a dump on a log, slaps a Shelby sticker on it and calls it real. Lets put it in the registry books! Where does it end?

If CS bought out FFR, or a company like FFR and guys started building Shelbys with an old Mustang frame, wiring and rear-end, I guess it would go in the registry as "Real"...right? I am not trying to start anything with anyone, I just dont know when enough is enough.

foothills gary · #6 (**permalink**) 10-25-2003, 12:05 PM

I'll add a new wrinkle to this discussion,and explain why I decided to order an ERA.Given a choice between several cars of, in my mind, extremely high quality(and similar cost),I'm going to go for the one made"right here",in the good ol'USA.It's my feeling that we don't have many loyal friends around the world,and rather than having more American dollars leaving probably for good,Ihave the golden opportunity to help my American bro's(and sis's)by providing them with a job doing exactly what they enjoy doing.This is my idea of wealth redistribution-providing jobs for people,getting a quality product in return and keeping our money at home where it can be "recycled" again.

Tout · #7 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 07:48 AM

Yes, SAAC does reconize your cars as "continuations"no more no less,as to being real ,which parts are being used that were used on the "REAL"/original cobras? A VIN? SAAC under much pressure from CS had to come up with something to please him and owners of original cars,wording "continuation" was chosen.At stake was the posibility of declining values of original cars and CS is still a big part of SAAC. Real in that Shelby is selling these only.

Anthony · #8 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 09:17 AM

Rooster, yes, if Shelby made a cobra with a FF5 frame, suspension, he could still call it a cobra. To me, it would not be a "cobra", as the frame, suspension, mostly everything is different. To me, the fact that it is the same structurally, is the main reason it is a real cobra, whether it was made in 1965 or 2000, it is virtually the same car. It is not worth the same, but riding in it, working on it, it is the same car. I believe the Kirkham is a real cobra as well, although not a "Shelby" cobra, kind of like a AC cobra, COB/COX serial numbered cars. These cars are not nearly worth the same as a CSX3000 car. People may be asking more than $200K for these cars (COB/COX), trying to capitalize on the worth of a CSX3000 car, but I don't think they are worth much more than $100K - 150K.

A good example of a reintroduced car is the Ford GT. Although the car has sharper lines, which to me don't look as good as the GT40's of '60's, more importantly to me, the car is a completely different car from the original, as everyone knows. To me, it isn't a GT40, it's a modern midengine car, maybe closer in design to the Ferrari 355/360, than to the original GT40, made to look like a an original GT40. It's not even close to the original car, which to me takes away from it. Other people I'm sure would prefer the newer GT over the original. I would jump at the chance that Ford would reproduce the original GT40 MKI and MKII, but I know they will never do it.

Well, Shelby is offering the cobra again, in its original form and design. You have a second chance to buy the cobra from the guy who made it famous. There are those, like myself, that made the decision to buy it. There are alot of good replica's out there as well, ranging from very different from the original, to the Kirkham, identical copy of the original.

However SAAC decides to list the CSX4000 cars doesn't matter to me. I know what I have and what the car is. To me, a cobra that is built identical to the original, from the same manufacturer, is about as close as I can come to going back to 1965 to buy an original car brand new. It's alot cheaper than buying an original 427 S/C, which I believe are going for $500K and up.

daltondavid · #9 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by foothills gary

I'll add a new wrinkle to this discussion,and explain why I decided to order an ERA.Given a choice between several cars of, in my mind, extremely high quality(and similar cost),I'm going to go for the one made"right here",in the good ol'USA.It's my feeling that we don't have many loyal friends around the world,and rather than having more American dollars leaving probably for good,Ihave the golden opportunity to help my American bro's(and sis's)by providing them with a job doing exactly what they enjoy doing.This is my idea of wealth redistribution-providing jobs for people,getting a quality product in return and keeping our money at home where it can be "recycled" again.

While I find it admirable that you wave your money and the flag at the same time, I ask you where was your computer, cell phone, t.v., toaster, microwave etc. all made? more than likely, not here. I love our country for the simple fact that we can buy a Car from AMERICANS that are made in South Africa. Yet we still cannot legally obtain a Cigar from Cuba! and after all the REAL ONES were made in England then finished here.

Excaliber · #10 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 09:52 AM

Yeah,,,,those Saleens are such a joke, I mean after all they were REALLY built by Ford. There only "Saleens" because they have the guys name on them after all. And who the heck is Roush? Why would I want a car with HIS name on it?

Ernie

Tout · #11 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 10:27 AM

The day CS put a VIN on a fiberglass car ,is the day he started to also sell replicas, as do many others .Dont get me wrong , I like all the cars being reproduced ,I and many others just dont see a fiberglass continuation as REAL . Tout

KobraKarl · #12 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 10:47 AM

Gosh fellers........does this mean my neighbours new Mustang isnt a ...........Mustang!

foothills gary · #13 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 10:58 AM

DD,you missed the point of my comments.I believe if a comparable product is made in America I should try to support those companies who have managed to organize to the extent that they can match or beat price,and produce an equal or superior product.In many instances that is not the case,as in the phones,small appliances,and even in the arena of entry level automobiles.Many companies have taken the easy way out and gone offshore to try and compete.There are myriad reasons for this that I don't want to delve into those here.Bottom line is ERA makes a product that can be finished to the same high quality level as an offshore Shelby at the same price +or- a few$,and to me that carries the day over a vague promise of some higher resale down the line.Just my personal philosophy,and no reflection on what promises to be another excellent Shelby product.

Tout · #14 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 11:11 AM

EX , you missed the boat on this ,Roush and Saleans are not factory mustangs that just get a new VIN , and you should know that .Tout

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 11:59 AM

Just get a new VIN? Oh you mean like a Shelby Cobra does?

So whats the big deal. It's easy to copy what Saleen has done. You put on bigger brakes, beef up the motor, yadda yadda, and BOOM you got yourself a "Saleen". Well, OK, you don't have the NAME or the VIN, but it really is the same,,,,,,,isn't it?

In other words once Shelby puts his NAME and VIN on a car, ANY car, it is indeed a "real" Shelby Cobra. Only thing left to argue is WHICH MODEL and year of production!

Ernie

Tout · #16 (**permalink**) 10-26-2003, 02:24 PM

EX, just wanted to see ya say it. Tout

REAL 1 · #17 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 01:22 PM

What difference does it make what the body is made of? AC is/was producing Carbon fiber bodied cars, no? Its still an AC.

foothills: Your argument doesn't carry much weight. We are not talking a major manufacturer with thousands of jobs being lost here. If one were to agree with your argument then its logic would equally apply to SPF. Are you saying that you own no product made in a foreign country that has an American made competitor? Moreover there is NO American competitor that can offer you a new genuine Cobra. Shelby is it.

Its not a "vague" promise of higher resale that you get with a CSX. Its the fact that you get a Cobra not merely a replica of a Cobra for nearly the same price. The problem may in fact be not that the SA Shelby will increase in value its what the SA CSX will do to the value of similarly priced ERAs, SPFs etc.. Give the choice of spending the same money I would think a majority of buyers would rather have a Shelby Cobra. Call me crazy.

In fact I'll be willing to bet that a new SA CSX Shelby Cobra is probably LESS expensive than similarly equipped ERA roller from the factory. The only option on the new SA CSX are the 42 gallon tank and larger brakes. Has anyone done an item by item price comparison.

With the ERA many things I have as I understand are extra that are standard on the CSX are extra. Leather, outboard brakes, roll bar, remote oil cooler, aluminum panels, pusher cooling fans, real 6 pin pin drives, headers and sidepipes etc.. I believe the CSX comes standard with these items. The ERA does not.

Dan Semko · #18 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 01:29 PM

Evan,
did you receive the Optima batteries yet? Your check hasn't arrived here as of todays mail.

REAL 1 · #19 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 01:32 PM

Dan: I mailed it last week, $212.16. If you don't get it by the end of the week call me and I will stop payment and send another.

Chaplin · #20 (**permalink**) 10-27-2003, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by REAL 1

With the ERA many things I have been told are standard on the CSX are extra. Leather, outboard brakes, roll bar, remote oil cooler, aluminum panels, pusher cooling fans, real 6 pin pin drives, headers and sidepipes etc.. I believe the CSX comes standard with these items. [/b]

Evan, while that may be true, the base price of an ERA is only $19.9k. When you throw those things in, the ERA and the CAV CSX roller are comparably priced- even with the additional cost for paint on the ERA. I think we need to wait a while to see what the CAV CSX rollers actually wind up costing, but as I noted elsewhere in this thread (I think it was this thread), my ERA (even with paint) cost approximately what the CAV roller is selling for. I should add that I don't have 6-pins- I have the 5-pin hub adaptors- and I have the standard rear with standard brakes. Other than that, I got just about every other upgrade available.

But there is no denying that the CAV will be a "real" cobra. Only time will tell which is the better value. . .