Anybody runing a Mcleod or equivalent sintered iron disc?

ng8264723 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 05:27 PM

I had a sintered iron disc in my last car and loved it. I had a FRP pressure plate and the sintered iron disc and boy did it grab. It wasn't bad in Brooklyn traffic either. I'm putting a 427 in a Kirkham and wanted peoples opinions.

ng8264723 · #2 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 10:07 AM

Ttt
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patrickt · #3 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

I had a sintered iron disc in my last car and loved it. I had a FRP pressure plate and the sintered iron disc and boy did it grab. It wasn't bad in Brooklyn traffic either. I'm putting a 427 in a Kirkham and wanted peoples opinions.

With a 427 in a Kirkham you are more likely to experience wheelspin, rather than clutch slippage. Remember how light these cars are over the rear wheels -- standard clutch discs will bite just fine. (And if you used your alignment tool on it you can tell people it's steel-sintered)....... get it, "still centered"

.

ng8264723 · #4 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 03:29 PM

How do you like your tko and what disc do you run

patrickt · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

How do you like your tko...

My TKO is smooth as silk. BUT, I never park it in gear (check the multitude of "TKO Stuck in Gear" threads). I went with the .64 OD fifth gear and it allows me to cruise on the highway at 2000 RPM where the wind noise is actually louder than the pipes. The first four gears are actually pretty close to the wide ratio TL and my rear is 3.54. In fact, if I could go back and change any of it I wouldn't -- I'd keep it exactly the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

... and what disc do you run

Centerforce. Remember though that the TKO600 is not Ford splined, it's a Chevy, so you're kind of using a Chevy driven-disc along with your Ford type pressure plate.

It works very well though.

ng8264723 · #6 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 05:13 PM

Did you run a short input shaft? What size flywheel and clutch?

patrickt · #7 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

Did you run a short input shaft? What size flywheel and clutch?

No, I use the spacer that you can see below. I have the SCAT 4.125" stroker crank in my 428 FE so I use the 427-type "zero balance" aluminum flywheel from Centerforce. NOT the externally balanced flywheel that you would normally use with a 428 (because my FE is now internally balanced). That flywheel will handle up to a 12" clutch; I use 11".

ng8264723 · #8 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 04:25 AM

David Kirkham had the short shaft installed on his build thread. I wonder why?

patrickt · #9 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng8264723

David Kirkham had the short shaft installed on his build thread. I wonder why?

There may be an advantage to using the short input shaft on a Kirkham -- I don't know. Keep in mind that you want your shifter to be aligned in the right position, the transmission mounts must line up, and your driveshaft must be the proper length (and angle). Clearance is at a premium under a Cobra (whether it be a Kirkham or ERA). You don't have the luxury of spaciousness. Why don't you drop David K. a note and ask him which is easier on a Kirkham, a spacer or a short shaft Then let me know, I'm curious as well.

RICK LAKE · #10 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 06:39 AM

ng8264723 Running an Iron disc on the street is not good, It's a racing part. Have you looked into a street twin setup? The other thing is I run GM trans in my cobra a 6spd richmond and a 5 spd g-force, I have a roller bearing in the crank for the pilot bushing. Some trans input shafts need to be cut .380" off. Both of mine with the lakewood shield and motor plate are OK. No spacer is used. My flywheel was machined for running both GM and Ford clutch assembly bolt patterns. I did this for racing. 11" and 11 1/2" patterns. My next motor is get the twin disc setup, very easy pedal pressure and 800 hp rated. The whole assembly, wieghts the same as the stock 40+ lb flywheel and clutch. You need to measure from the back face of the beel housing to the edge of the bushing in your crank to see if you need to either run a shorter trans shaft or cut off the input shaft the .380" to keep the crank from riding on the thrust bearing and perwearing it out. Make sure your bellhousing is also center to the motor. I have a gold centerforce clutch in the car WITHOUT THE WIEGHTS on the pressure plate. Was having problems shifting over 3,000 rpm with the ERA hydro setup. Problem was solved when the wieghts where removed. I will never run a lockup clutch again.

This is part of the reason I have 2 trans for the car. You can have the input shaft machined shorter at a machine shop for about half the cost of a new input shaft.

Richmond has just come out with a new 600 hp and tork 5 speed trans. It is the same size as my 6 spd. The only different is the mount is 1" shorter to the front of the car. The frame was modified for my 6-spd. Stay a way from the multi disc little clutch setup for the street. They don't like to be riden on in stop and go traffic. If the street twin is setup right, this should be the only clutch you will ever need. The old ones made a little noise, the new ones are quiet. Rick L.

patrickt · #11 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

I have a gold centerforce clutch in the car WITHOUT THE WIEGHTS on the pressure plate. Was having problems shifting over 3,000 rpm with the ERA hydro setup. Problem was solved when the wieghts where removed.

That's a good point on the little weights. I have mine removed, Chuck Brandt's ERA build website goes over that in detail, and I believe McLeod (and others) even recommend removing them. If I recall correctly, Chuck's car would actually move forward if you revved while the clutch was engaged.

EDIT -- Here is the link to Chuck's site, http://www.chuckbrandt.com/living.htm His discussion on the Centerforce weights, and photos of the fix, are halfway down the page.

ng8264723 · #12 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 09:43 AM

Rick lake,
I actually ran a sintered iron disc on my twin turbo stang in brooklyn traffic. It was great. It always hooked and I was able to control it in traffic. The old car was much heavier though which is why I asked here
chris

RICK LAKE · #13 (**permalink**) 11-03-2007, 05:17 PM

ng8264723 Any chance of getting a first name?

Anyway if you have a twin turbo stang, with what 800 hp you already have an idea about what you need to go with in clutch department. Stang is 3,400 lbs, cobra depending on manufacturer is from 2,200 to 2,800 lbs. The shock to the drive train with a solid hub disc is hard. This is why the new carbon kevlar clutches are coming out. They need 700 to 1K miles of heat cycles to breakin. Do you build your own cars or are you having someone build it for you?

There is no bad question to asked, I have done it for years. With the trans lenght in question, I would have thought that you would know the answer. Ask far as input shaft lenght, as long as the trans is not pushing on the crank and is not bottomed out on the splines to the clutch disc, it's about choice.

Same far as the clutch problems with centerforce, this started in 99 with my car, and yes to the reving the motor with the wieghts in an ERA car it will move in gear with the clutch in. This is why ERA now removes the wieghts on there built cars. Centerforce techs are dumb when it comes to explaining how there clutch works and it loads the pressure plate at 2,800 to 3,000 rpm and the ERA clutch hydro system can't over come the weight pressure to release the clutch to shift. Go back 3-4 years and look under my threads. You will see the B.S. I was told. Kirkham may be running a special clutch assembly in his cars. In the old days you could get special lakewood bellhousing that the depth was 5" instead of the 7-9". It was for trans swaps where every inch of room was needed. I had one on my CJ-5 when I had a 4 spd in it. The driveshaft angle where tight and hard on the universal joints. I got about 6K to a joint. Rick L. Ps I see your name is Chris, Skip the first question.

ng8264723 · #14 (**permalink**) 11-04-2007, 06:37 AM

Rick,
My twin turbo stang was a 302. It was streetable with all accessories. It only had about 450 RWHP. Although it was stolen before I got to drag it I figured it as a solid 10 second car. The clutch worked in that application. I figure my cobra WILL BE ABOUT THE SAME POWER WITH A na 427. Sorry caps lock. Anyway, I do build my own cars. I just like to ask first. I want to see what others were running. The turbo cars like mine were burning clutches. I didn't want to spend a fortune on a clutch so I bought the Mcleod. It was cheap $80 used? It was like new. I guess I'll think about a lesser agressive clutch on this application.

PJS50 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 08:36 AM

I am running the sintered iron McLeod disk on my BB Cobra and I wouldn't have it any other way... The smaller disc helps with the shifting of my TKO too..
I toasted a "dual friction" type of disc in the car early last summer and the sintered one shows no signs of giving up, even after a few trips to the dragstrip and a long day on the roadcourses this summer...
It does "chatter" a small amount during street driving, but ONLY when one "babies" the clutch pedal, but if you are a bit more agressive with the pedal, the chatter disappears and really is 100% a non-issue...
I have close to 600 flywheel HP and 650-ish flywheel torque under my SPF hood, and the sintered disc doesn't even know the difference...
Dual friction discs are always "weak" on one side... Don't forget that...

Murphy · #16 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 11:48 AM

On a Kirkham the long shaft will push your trans back so the mount will not work and it will cause the trans to hit the crossmember that holds the mount. Order the Tremec with the short shaft. Look up David Kirkhams thread on the modification for the scattershield so it does not hang down below the frame.

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 11:58 AM

PJS50. I don't know which dual disc setup you have but if you set it up right and broke it in correctly,if this clutch is a Mcleod will hold 900 hp without any slipping. Yes you can use a steel disc on the street as long as the center hub is spring loaded to keep the shock to the drive train to a min. If you are running a solid disc you are beating the hell out of the rear gears.

You have to guys on this forum running over 700 hp and torque to the wheels, not the flywheel running 11" street twins without any slipping or problems. You have to setup a Mcleod like the 13 page info tells and breakin the clutch for min of 500 miles, if you don't the clutch will slip. If the air gaps are not set right, the clutch will slip, if the adjuster to the pressure plate are not readjusted after the 500 mile breakin the clutch will slip or scatter. There is no weak side of the clutch,

same pressure is applied to both sides of the disc.

some discs are made from different materials on each side for certain driving conditions. The same info applies to a soft-loc clutch with breakin and running except there is alot more adjustments for this setup. I couple of the guys at R&G are running tilton clutches with 2 and 3 disc setup, except for the noise with the car at idle there are no problems and 200+ hard road course miles but on the cars. You can't ride this clutch though, in or out on the pedal. I am running a street twin on my next motor,498 with a little more power, I see no problem if it is setup and broken in right. Time will tell.

PJ I do like your new theory on different pressures on each side of the disc. Rick L.