rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

After reading Jim's post I agree with Jim. I do think there has been a symbiotic relationship between SAAC and Cobra fans/fanatics.

I, however, do think Shelby was not right in taking away SAACs licensing rights. They could have continued to allow that and run their own site at the same time. There is just something not right with taking away an organizations licensing that has done so much for the Cobra over the years. To me it doesn't seem like very good public relations.

I'll agree with Evan on this point.

(Hmm, last time I tried to agree with Evan, he argued with me about it... )

[Excaliber]

Well at least we won't be beating up on Amy now that Evan has stepped into the ring...

I don't think either 'club' thinks that highly of replicas anyway you look at it. At best there somewhat 'accepted' as a bastard step child. Thats OK with me, I just wanna drive my car.

[Jim Maxwell]

As a long time SAAC member, I am sorry that anyone feels that they are looked down upon if they own a replica. "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". I love the replicas. Their owners have kept the spirit alive and growing. I'll cause some problems here, but my some of my favorites are the ERA cars because I have to look really hard to tell them from originals. And the Factory Five cars have brought the fun and excitement to so many folks that have an intense love for the cars. Of course, the Kirkhams and Shelbys are the Cartier of the replicas (and continuations).
I am not a SAAC insider. But it just makes sense to me from a survival point of view that if there are owners of original Shelbys that more often than not have financial resources beyond the average, I would market to them since they rent the race garages, they bring numerous cars, their companies may advertise or sponsor things, etc. Just because you see the semis with displays of several incredible Shelbys under one roof shouldn't create the assumption that they are being catered to. Those that feel that way should examine whether you are just jealous that isn't your semi! (I know I feel that way!)
Those better financially better off folks are just as entitled to be there as you and you are just as entitled to be there, too.
That being said, the bouncer will let Bruce Willis in before me every time. How fair is that? I think I will go on a tirade about that later tonight in a new thread. Then again, maybe I will thank God for what I have and not worry too much about what I lack ( which my wife is probably sharing with her book club as we speak).

[Jim Maxwell]

That's a sign of a man who can see both sides of an argument!

[imagine2frolic]

Way back on about page 14 someone said 22 pages when I asked how far this can go. I am getting another bucket of popcorn, and something to wash it down. Lots of good thoughts being tossed around, and as always a few bad ones too.

Madmiles442, would like a drink for your popcorn too??????

[relaxinrob]

I think that SAAC should continue to be the support structure for those lucky enough to have an original. The new TeamShelby group, if they chose to do so, could bring replica OWNERS into the organization, while not bringing in the replica MANUFACTURERS. That way, TeamShelby promotes those who love the cars, but doesn't give the nod to those who manufacture them........

I think there could be a line drawn in the sand that everyone would be comfortable with.

[CBattaglia]

If this post is longer than the "hot Chick next to my cobra" thread, we have a problem

[What'saCobra?]

RedCSX1: "What are you talking about? ... If I was running the Club that SHELBY is promoting I would handle it the same way SAAC has as far as inclusion goes."

OK by me, if you are in charge, you might then also create the current lackluster performance. That would allow more of the same ignorance of the total market value of Shel's franchise. i won't be a member of your "club" then, either. Not interesting.

Let's see, the current market value (or capitalization) of all "original" Cobras exceeds a billion dollars. Just how big is the "Cobra" market. Would you believe as much as 10 billion dollars over the next 6 or 7 years?

Understand the upside potentials to Shel' now?

Time and circumstances change. Frankly, Shel' & FORD should pay whatever d'argent to get SAAC in the boat. FORD wants to sell perhaps 30,000 cars a year for a few years, say 4 or 7. Maybe 50,000 per annum.

Are you kidding? Not making the Cobra club inclusive under those circumstances??? Costs nothing, pays for itself. Keep pride and miss an involved Shel' at a high level? Does anyone in the room know the revenue flow from 50,000 units? Or 150,000? At $50K+ each?

Club gross revenues might easily be way way over $1mil+ and each "real" owner gets a handshake and a back-slap with a "my kind of guy!"??? Worth much more than a signature to most of us. He is a breathing legend.

What's real? It either is or looks like a Cobra. It either is or looks like a Shelby Mustang. Maybe more. We all know about the importance of the continuations, real race cars, original race cars, clones, etc. No problem. You check your wallet and you take your choice and aspire for better next time.

Perhaps Shel' hasn't patted you on the back yet (or maybe you're his best friend), but he is a very charming sucker and even this old curmudgeon was smited (smitten?) with that big smile. After all those years. And I have modest issues from way back, long gone and corrected properly with some "assisance" from friends at the time.

Amy knows of which i speak regarding his charm and it is true. Of course, he can cut to the quick also, but he wouldn't dream of doing that to a potential GT500 buyer, never has and never will. (But, he might err and forget a little. Me too.) He is a great story and a great man.

But, given the market potentials, why should SAAC "keep" stuff away from Shel'? He should simply purchase it "back", whatever and get on with the show. Everyone get off their horse and parlay. It makes sense.

The SAAC owners are tired, IMHO, of the grief and intensity. They can't get it up enough to produce a magazine meeting their own standards. Give them a break. They earned it six ways from Sunday. Others can pick up the mantle and correct the club limitations dictated by both the original "elitism" and the practicalities of establishing the lineage of all the "fine" cars. Including Mustang thingies. But, The SAAC owners must be paid. And respected. By the way, they do not know me and i do not know them, though we met perhaps six years ago for a hello. i have no interest in their business. Never did, don't now and will not in the future.

Look at how long Corvettes have been manufactured and sold. And raced. It is no error that there are many many very excellent Corvette clubs, mags, shirts, events, etc. GM supports the car and dealers.

Just exactly why do you think that you couldn't even give 427 Cobras away in 1967? IMHO, there was a complete failure to comprehend and respect marketing methods and forces in the day and a complete unwillingness by Shel' and FORD to spend the money necessary to keep the car both in production and in the public eye. The result: predicted failure.

Subsequently, SAAC did that work and it yet is still evolving at both FORD, SAAC, Shelby entities/licensees and the various competitors. Ned's great work should be re-paid in full and he ought to be allowed to elect any involvement he might desire regarding authentication services, etc. The man is a walking Winchester.

Just my opinion, but, to stay as is will create a limitation on the Shel' group that might not stand or be tolerated for long. They have a serious imperative to get their arms around this. It is only money and parlay. And promises. In writing. And contracts with witnesses. And cubic miles of PR. Can be done. Must be done, eventually, IMHO.

Of course it is controversial. And inflamable. And potentially ugly, with tempers, pride, and illicit (and uninformed) 3rd parties with ego-inflated opinions. Say as you might, the fact is that this situation will be resolved either the easy or the hard way, but it will be resolved.

Recall that i watched the 289 racers and buyers get dumped as soon as the marvelous 427 became available and FORD stopped funding races and development of the 289. And then i watched up close and personal while 427 racers and owners got ignored when the GT40 became the flavor of the year. And i watched kit suppliers get bad-mouthed with serious gusto and disrespect, rather than get them under the tent. So, i know the new club will only last as long as it is funded and supported, not a minute longer. Shel' will not supply the funds to keep it going when things are a little slow.

Shel' was bored to death, annoyed by regulations big time, chased by creditor issues resulting from poor financial performance of auto sales, abandonned by FORD, disgusted with Mustangs, and particularly pissed about the whole mess. With that kind of attitude, it is little wonder he wasn't very bright and shinny about the later knock-offs of "his" car design. He quit and abandonned the project, took his marbles and went to Africa. Frankly, i blame FORD's H2, not Shel'. Shel' got no real support after Le Mans and way too many orders.

He is a great man, but not as perfect as us.

Remember the Torino "Cobra". On the other hand, they ought to be members, if they wish.

Shel' perhaps gets bored with smoothness. OK by me. He knows how to spend, too. But, to allow SAAC to withhold original SA documents just isn't going to be taken lightly. Unless SAAC steps up to the plate and find an imaginative solution to accept, misery will follow everyone. The courts are always a loser to everyone, except the lawyers. The court is an assymptote.

In the end, a compromise/purchase will happen. Saner heads will prevail.

Not entirely unlike Rupert's purchase of Dow Jones/WSJ.

And the upcoming sale of the NYTimes to...

[Madmiles442]

Originally Posted by imagine2frolic

Way back on about page 14 someone said 22 pages when I asked how far this can go. I am getting another bucket of popcorn, and something to wash it down. Lots of good thoughts being tossed around, and as always a few bad ones too.
Madmiles442, would like a drink for your popcorn too??????

Yes sir, Knob Creek with a splash sounds good.

You know, all Ron and Jamo need to do is to get a paid subscription to this little Club and we've got the national Cobra Club thing already. I'm grossly oversimplifying this, of course, but hmmmmm.

[TerrysSPF]

Whatsa- WOW, that was a mouthfull!

I just spent a couple hours reading all of this from the 1st page on. First of all, while I don't always agree with Amy (or what's going on at Shelby) I have to give her credit for being here. Takes a lot of guts to get on here with this bunch.

I was a member of SAAC when I owned my GT-350 in the 80's. I thought they did a pretty good job over there with (what I figured) was a limited budget. I cancelled my membership when I sold my car. When I purchased my SPF in the early 2000's I re-joined SAAC and wasn't as impressed with the club as I was in the 80's. But then again........I was now a "replica" owner.
I DO understand however (unlike Evan) what SAAC has meant to Shelby as far as keeping the name alive (not visa versa). But, I have to agree with Evan (and others) that Shelby should NOT be taking away SAAC's right to use his name, or maintain original papers. It's what they do and frankly, I don't think Shelby could handle it as well (into too many other ventures).

This is just my opinion, but to me, it looks like Shelby is starting this new Club to "legitimize" the new "Shelby's" coming out of Ford today. That's why it's geared towards the newer vehicles (or at least that's what it sounds like). Legitimizing the new vehicles may in turn make them more collectable as well as increase their value (which I'm sure Shelby is hoping will also increase the value of his name). Shelby already has name value with many of US, but a lot of the owners of the newer vehicles ('Stangs) are much younger than we are. Are the new Mustangs being registered? Perhaps Shelby wants them to be and wants to be in control over SAAC?

I think it would be a shame if Shelby didn't use this new Club as an opportunity to unite ALL Cobra owners - original AND replica. After all, they have a replica company building some of their glass cars today, and they had a replica company building their alum cars in previous years, so why can't we just all get along?
Fire the lawyers and use your head CS. -The replica companies are one of the biggest reasons why your name (and your car) are still popular today.

[Don]

Agree with TerrysSPF's comment:

" The replica companies are one of the biggest reasons why your name (and your car) are still popular today. "

I noticed the use of " one of the biggest reasons ", not the only reason. The average individual and even some auto hobbyists cannot by themselves determine if the Cobra is an original or a replica. Publicity and press coverage on the auction results for a Cobra as well as other media exposure, as an example, the Bill Cosby interview and Bill's narration of the Cobra given to him by Caroll Shelby as viewed on the Jay Leno show have also contributed to the popularity of the Cobra, i.e. many, many reasons for name and visual identification.

Being a Corvette owner, the Vette just does not have the WOW factor for the general public as compared to the Cobra, and never will.

In my case, the association with the desire to have a Cobra ( replica, cannot afford an original ), came from attending races at the now closed Bridgehampton , Long island NY track and Watkins Glen . Reinforcement came from attending the AACA Fall National Meet in Hershey PA for many years and seeing a Cobra. AACA only allows original vehicles that are 25 years or older. Their Club rules do not allow for modified vehicles or replicas as their charter purpose was specifically for the Antique Auto enthusiasts .

I " think " , subject to correction by others that have attended, but either or both the SAAC and/or Shelby events and Car Shows at Lime Rock Park in CT are for originals only, no replicas of any type.

From David S.Wallen's Turn One Article in the December edition of Grassroots Motorsports:

" In reality, we should think of ourselves as ambassadors. To the rest of the world, we;re just a bunch of geeks playing with cars; and to someone new to motorsports, we might be the deciding factor as to whether they stick with it or move to a different hobby-like softball or fishing or something that doesn't involve four-wheeled things that go vroom vroom while devouring copious amounts of time and cash "

Thought the last few words would provide a lite moment for a Thread that has 235 replies and 10,981 views over the last 5 days

[kayakjack]

Originally Posted by Don

Agree with TerrysSPF's comment:


Being a Corvette owner, the Vette just does not have the WOW factor for the general public as compared to the Cobra, and never will.

When I was at the Petit LeMans last month the Corvette Corral was absolutely loaded with CARS and PEOPLE. The two Vettes on track made the best sound of all. Good show!!

Since Shelby has kissed and made up with Ford - can you imagine Ford contracting with someone like Pratt & Miller to produce and run a Cobraesque Ford powered car against them!!! As much as I wish it looked like my 427 Cobra, it might make business sense to make it more Mustang like. Shelby's name on the side. Call them Cobras. Kick some Vette butt. The hills full of all kinds of Cobras cheering them on. Mustangs, 427s. Ford selling a boatload of cars. Shelby raking in good royalty $$ on the cars sold by Ford. Everybody happy.

I can dream can't I??

Jack

[Nedsel]

I am unaware of any policy by either Lime Rock Park or SAAC restricting entry to the Labor Day weekend car event(s) to original Cobras only. Last time I attended, there were plenty of originals as well as replicas.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

I am unaware of any policy by either Lime Rock Park or SAAC restricting entry to the Labor Day weekend car event(s) to original Cobras only. Last time I attended, there were plenty of originals as well as replicas.

With several posts here that seem to say that SAAC should not allow replica owners in the club, I'm glad to see the SAAC Original Cobra Registrar reply to say that just ain't so.

[Jamo]

Aston Martin has carried the flag for Ford in ALMS for the past several years...pretty damn well in fact. Lends an international bent for the series, and allows them to run in Europe with modifications. Shelby's a good label, but having a DBR1-colored Aston Martin and numbering it "007" ain't assactly a bad marketing move (though its teammate 009 was the better runner).

Saleen's running in GT-1 as well, as does Panoz. So, Ford is represented more than most.

But with Ford shedding its high-end stuff, maybe the door does open for a Shelby racing team...although a Ford GT might make more sense. It would harken back to Shelby running one of the GT40 teams.

[Russ Dickey]

Originally Posted by Jamo

Aston Martin has carried the flag for Ford in ALMS for the past several years...pretty damn well in fact. Lends an international bent for the series, and allows them to run in Europe with modifications. Shelby's a good label, but having a DBR1-colored Aston Martin and numbering it "007" ain't assactly a bad marketing move (though its teammate 009 was the better runner).

Saleen's running in GT-1 as well, as does Panoz. So, Ford is represented more than most.

But with Ford shedding its high-end stuff, maybe the door does open for a Shelby racing team...although a Ford GT might make more sense. It would harken back to Shelby running one of the GT40 teams.

I know that we are getting way off topic with this stuff, but Kevin Doran of Doran Racing (who has run Ford-powered Daytona Prototypes in Grand Am) is finalizing construction of several Ford GT's which he is going to campaign for '08 in ALMS GT2. As was stated before, it is rumored that Chevrolet is preparing to campaign the Corvette in GT2 as well, so next years ALMS season could be one of the best ever. Ford vs. Chevy vs. Ferrari vs. Porsche

Doran had originally been planning to run the Ford GT in the GT1 class, and had set up a pretty good website talking all about it: http://fordgttv.com/

As far as the rest of the stuff discussed in this thread...I have been a SAAC member since 1984 at the age of 13 (I "inherited" the membership after the passing of my father, who was a member from 1981), and I just sent in my renewal for '08.

I think it is extremely disheartening to hear that the two institutions which I have supported and been loyal to for so long, Carroll Shelby and SAAC, have split, but nonetheless I will continue to support each going forward. I also just signed up for Team Shelby.

[Igofastr]

The Best Friend Carroll Shelby Ever Had
by Colin Comer, Sports Car Market magazine

Today Carroll Shelby is sitting on top of the automotive world. At 84, he is an automotive icon. The 1,003 Cobras he created from 1962 through 1967 are among the most-sought-after collectible cars of all time, evidenced by the $5.5M result of CSX3015 at Barrett-Jackson this past January. A Cobra Daytona Coupe was recently reported sold for $13m. Any Shelby American factory team car has two commas in its price. Even garden variety original 289 and 427 street Cobras trade routinely for over half a million dollars. Shelby Mustangs, originally about $4,500, now can bring 100 times that amount. Cobras are the most replicated car ever--currently more than 50 companies all over the world crank out Cobra replicas. And Shelby is back with Ford, again making Shelby Mustangs after 40 years. But it wasn't always like this.

In 1970, Carroll Shelby saw the writing on the wall: performance cars were coming under the microscope. Federal emission and safety requirements and high insurance rates were conspiring to make the performance car an endangered species. Shelby cashed in his chips and left the game, closing down his company. He preferred to spend his time hunting big game in Africa and dabbling in commercial real estate. His Cobras and Shelby Mustangs became just "used cars" and began the predictable downward slide of depreciation. Second and third owners began searching for parts to keep them on the road, and to find people who knew how to work on them. Authenticity was rarely a concern, nor was historical significance. That old race car may have won a lot of races, but was now just a beater to get to work in.

In 1975, there was no company to go to for expertise or advice. Shelby was long gone, and the factory a distant memory. Former Shelby employees had moved on. Your local Ford dealer didn't want to sell you parts--they were hopeful that you'd give up and buy a new Mustang II. So a handful of owners formed the Shelby American Automobile Club. They dedicated SAAC (pronounced "sack") to the preservation, history, care and enjoyment of Shelby automobiles. They formed a network to share parts sources and technical information. They sold and traded parts among themselves by way of classified ads in the club's publication. They held a national convention each summer where a couple of thousand owners and enthusiasts gathered to revel in their unique cars. Days were filled with car shows, swap meets and driving at speed on closed courses. Evenings were taken up with seminars, dinners and guest speakers. Even Carroll Shelby's interest was piqued and he was surprised to find himself the guest of honor and center of attention, receiving standing ovations and long lines of enthusiasts waiting patiently to get their pictures taken with him or to get his autograph. Shelby was back, and ol' Shel was a bona fide celebrity to the SAAC members.

The history of Cobras and Shelby Mustangs became very important to SAAC. The club tirelessly gathered information on every car and every owner they could locate. They researched serial numbers, technical details and running production changes. They tracked competition cars, noting the races, drivers, finishing positions and car numbers. Boxes of paperwork left behind at Shelby American and headed for the dumpster were secured, every page being scrutinized, filed, and recorded. Hundreds of members spent thousands of hours building databases of information which led to publishing a registry. Every serial number was listed and every scrap of information was included. And overnight, Shelby's cars--which had been orphans--became valuable. There was now an official publication to validate the genuine cars and expose the fakes. Make no mistake--as values climbed the number of counterfeit Cobras and Shelby Mustangs increased. Fortunately, the club's registrars were able to keep track of the originals. Their dedication served to protect the marque and is responsible, now some 30 years later, for the current confidence in Shelby cars due to the accuracy and accessibility of the club's documentation. In fact, those looking to "correct" history or exhibit selective amnesia about certain details of their cars past refer to SAAC's registrars as "The Untouchables." Privileged information and private notes kept by the Registrars are just that--it is protected fiercely by SAAC for the good of the cars.

The Shelby American Automobile Club kept the brand name "Shelby" alive during Carroll Shelby's absence from the automotive world. When Shelby signed a contract with Chrysler to build 4-cylinder "performance cars," SAAC continued to stoke the fires of Ford enthusiasm. In the 1990s, when Carroll Shelby decided to capitalize on the renewed enthusiasm for his cars and the power of his name, he began building Cobras again. SAAC had kept his fans like a good getaway driver keeps your car--"close and running". Of course, these fans also had their checkbooks in hand.

SAAC continues to collect information, expanding its databases to include the new Shelby cars. Every ten years the club publishes an updated version of its registry, the last edition is a staggering 1,333 pages! The club holds a national convention every summer, each one bigger and better than the last. In fact, they have become so large that the only facilities capable of accommodating them are major race circuits. Amazingly, the club has remained under the same stable volunteer leadership for 32 years. And members? Almost 5,000 worldwide, and for the last 15 years SAAC has enjoyed an 85% membership renewal rate. This is serious dedication.

Throughout the years Carroll Shelby has recognized the value of SAAC and has supported the club and its goals. The result speaks for itself--compare Shelby values and club support to similar manufacturers such as Cunningham or Allard. Shelby correctly realized that manufacturers never run good owner organizations--enthusiasts do because they secure a large number of dedicated volunteers, enabling their club to provide exactly the kind of organization its members desire. This leaves manufacturers like Shelby free to concentrate building cars. It is a perfect symbiotic relationship.

Colin Comer, Sports Car Market magazine

[TerrysSPF]

Igofastr: Great article. Funny how times change, huh? Why Shelby continues to destroy relationships with people / companies is beyond me. I'm waiting to see how things end with Shelby and Superformance. You know it will.................it's only a matter of time.

I just went to the Concours d'Elegance in Hilton Head Island last weekend. Great show, and they had a couple Cobra's (and plenty of Mustangs) there. I go to the Concours in Amelia Island every year as well. Peter Brock was in Amelia a couple years ago with his SPF Coupe and took me for a ride (see my photo gallery). It only cost me about 50 bucks for the weekend - and I didn't have to wear a suit!
-Those shows in Monterey and Pebble must think their $hit doesn't stink!

[Don]

While not yet in the same league as other major Concours, Greenwich ( CT Gold Coast ) is $20 day or $30 for two days. Desire is to have national prominence, someday.

http://www.greenwichconcours.com/Main.htm

[Don]

From an opinion article, Matters of Moment by Andrew Frankel, in December MotorSports, regarding the McLaren and Ferrari controversy:

"..........rarely has anyone ended up looking good while trying so hard to make someone else look bad. "

Seems the same thought could apply to many situations.