Pick your side

[turnpike boy]

It would seem, absent any other strong motive (i.e., "hundreds of thousands of dollars"), that CS is just plain pissed off that SAAC has become the real (REAL?) clearing house for anything truly Shelby. And that appears to be the predominantly compelling reason - that he just ain't respected, at a level he deems appropriate, as the Guru For All Things Shelby.

To be the Guru, of course, would dictate a focused, driven mindset that would enable one to have all the answers.....a position that CS demurred on a very long time ago. Life goes on, and there were other projects and involvements that he found more rewarding, financially and egocentrically, for him to be too concerned with achievements made 40+ years ago. Hey, who lives in the past, right?

So. If it IS the money, then it should be a fairly simple matter to go thru SAAC's ledgers and see just exactly how much was made and reach an agreement of what he is due.

However. If it ISN'T the money, then it is going to be a long and bitter fight that both will become buried in. Provided SAAC has the wherewithall to sustain such a fight. And CS has made it very, very clear that he sees the fruits of SAAC's labors over the years as having risen from his accomplishments, thereby making what's theirs, more-than-equally his. Sure, they're entitled to some level of $$ for their clerk skills, but what they derived could not, and would not, exist had he not made it possible to begin with.


-Roger

[thudmaster]

I may be one of the few that does not have a beef with shelby or saac. I just wish like the rest of you it would resolve itself quietly and with dignity.
This fight is going to effect us all no matter who makes our cars...shelby included.
I will say this though, when people ask me if mine is a cobra I tell them its a roush superformance. Then nobody gets mad......

[RodKnock]

This thread is about picking sides. Since when did Buzz have to give equal time to both sides of the argument. It's a parody. Humor. Why so serious.

[REAL 1]

You can pick a side without attacking people personally but then again we're in the wrong cobra web site if you don't want or like personal attacks.

At ease. Carry on. Sorry.

[Excaliber]

Accepting that reasoning would include ANY club of ANY nature. Elvis fan clubs? What are they paying for the use of the name to the family? Book clubs? The list goes on and on. Club Cobra? Kit car manufacturers? Oh wait, we all ready covered that base, Shelby lost, kit car manufacturers don't owe him a dime. Complain all you want about it, it's a done deal. Why? Because he walked away from his Cobra legacy the shape/design passed into public domain. Think of it as an expired patent if you would, things aren't forever.

There are paralells here with the current suit(s). Did he abandon a 'registry' he never had anything to do with in the first place? What gives him the right, legal or moral to, in my opinion, steal the hard work of the SAAC owners, their 'Club'? Frankly, I don't believe he is entitled to the SAAC registry, under any circumstances, period. He wants to start his own, fine, go for it. While there was a 'contract' is it still binding after being ignored for so many years? These are some of the legal questions that will be answered, no matter what the final rulings no way both sides are gonna be happy with the resolution.

[Excaliber]

There was some talk about FORD going after 'clubs' who were using Ford owned emblems, logos, etc. By the way, Ford OWNS the name/word "Cobra", not Shelby. A club, "The Black Mustang Club" made a calendar, there was some huge confusion as the printer didn't want to move forward for fear of copyright issues. Heres a brief look at Fords official response:

The Black Mustang Club and other Ford enthusiast clubs are encouraged to take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials as long as they don't use Ford trademarks in products that will be sold. Clubs or enthusiasts who have questions regarding this should contact Ford by emailing branduse@ford.com, we are happy to help.
In fact, Ford is contributing to these types of enthusiast programs in forums, blogs and other social media platforms through our Social Media Press Releases at Ford Motor Company - digital snippets
I think it is great that the Black Mustang Club, and any other enthusiast club, would take pictures of their own vehicles for use in calendars or other materials.

One of the most fascinating comments from FORD was that THEY WERE FOLLOWING the forum conversation concerning this issue on the Black Mustang web site! WHOA, are they reading CLUB COBRA as well, right now??? Hi Edsel? How's the family?

See the full report here:
Media.Ford.com: FORD SUPPORTS BLACK MUSTANG CLUB’S WISH TO PRINT CALENDARS WITH OPEN LETTER:

[imagine2frolic]

Turnpike...Ned,

Great dialogue, an exapmle of how a misunderstanding can be corrected without the trashing....GOOD ONE!

[REAL 1]

It would seem to me that what determines who is entitled to what is determined by the parties and a licensing agreement. Its that simple.

[Nedsel]

If it were that simple, the whole mess wouldn't be in court.

[Don]

Unfortunately, the reality when human emotions, egos, personal desires/satisfaction, mis-trust, mutual dislike by the parties etc., etc., are involved, either real or perceived, the logical solution does not always prevail, but who decides and defines what the logical solution will be ?

Up to this point, seems the only ones benefitting are those collecting the on going legal fees . Do not know how the option is decided, but will the parties elect to have the case, if it gets that far, decided by a judge or a jury ?

SAAC's appeal for donations to their legal defense fund, was the amount collected and number of donators published ?

CSI's Public Relations firm has not issued any news updates since Dec 7, 2007.

[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by Don

SAAC's appeal for donations to their legal defense fund, was the amount collected and number of donators published ?

CSI's Public Relations firm has not issued any news updates since Dec 7, 2007.

1. No. I cannot imagine SAAC wanting C$ to know how big the war chest is. They are already in an uphill fight and do not need to provide information to their adversary in this. The donors may very well wish to be anonymous...and some may be supporting both sides to save face/friends whichever way the wind blows.

2. Smart. Somebody is listening to their legal beagles. Everything either side says could re-appear in court to be twisted or applied to God-Only-Knows what use. Best to 'save it for the judge'.

[Excaliber]

Evan, being a lawyer, made you could give us a clue how the licensing agreement could possibly be so badly interpreted as to give Shelby the rights to the SAAC registry? Not to mention the personal data that it is built upon (private phone numbers, address', etc.). Shelby wants that to.

If Shelby were granted the personal data that comprises the registry, stand by for an on slaught of law suits by individuals whose private information was just handed over to another corporation without individual consent.

[Excaliber]

I was told SAAC wouldn't tell ANYBODY I donated to their legal fund, so it's our little secret (and don't tell anyone).

[Ron61]

It seems to me that I recall when Shelby first started his Las Vegas plant and got nailed on the continuation Cobra thing that he made a remark along the lines that he wasn't that interested in building Cobras anyway and that the Series 1 cars were going to be his main thing. He didn't want any of the responsibility of building a turn key Cobra and they were to be just a kind of side line to the Series 1 project. I don't notice any big rush to build Series 1 replicas.
Everyone except the legal teams is going to lose on this mess no matter how it turns out. If Shelby wins, will he honor the orders for the new Cobra Registry or just keep the money already paid in for them and not send them out?
Why can't the two sides just agree to let the SAAC continue with the originals as it has since Shelby left for Africa for his 10 year sulk and didn't want anything to do with the cars, and the new SAI/Team Shelby keep all records and registry of the new cars he is making?

Ron

[computerworks]

If the lawsuits remain...it will take years to resolve.

The present work-in-progress new Registry will ship by the summer.

[REAL 1]

Oinie: I would love to read the Licensing agreement. Is it avaiable for the public to read or is it protected by a confidentiality agreement?

Ned: Its in court because, as I understand, one side is saying the other breached the licensing agreement and its not being renewed for that reason. The other side says no we didn't breach it and CS is not entitled to what he seeks.

What did the licensing agreement say? Was there a failure to comply? Was there a right to renew if there was compliance. What rights do each have on termination of the agreement?

Without reading the licensing agreement I can't even begin to say who is right legally. I then need the facts upon which the claims are based on both sides and then decide which are the facts that I would find as having happened then apply the agreement and the law to those facts.

Polls as to whose side your are on are meaningless. I already said if you want to be heard start a petition as to what the enthusiast wants to see happen. This may pressure both sides.

But then again what do I know....

[427sharpe]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I was told SAAC wouldn't tell ANYBODY I donated to their legal fund, so it's our little secret (and don't tell anyone).

DOOHHHH!

Did you mean to say that OUT LOUD?

[Dan Stryffeler]

HIQ,

Actually SAAC does have a registry for new Ford products; they are compiling info on GT's, Shelby Mustangs, Hertz cars, etc.

- Dan

[Excaliber]

You can read the pertinent aspect of the license agreement here:
http://www.shelbylicensing.com/press.htm

I've heard rumors that since the suit was filed the full document is currently available 'some where' on the web as it is now considered a public document? Otherwise, yeah, it would fall under a 'need to know basis'.

But what is published at Shelby Licensing is enough to see the primary argument. Shelby wants detailed records of sales, to determine their cut I would think. Products for sale must be pre-approved. Pretty typical and what you would expect to see for such a contract (from Ford or GM or whoever). EITHER side can withdraw at any time by simply telling the other side within a certain time frame within the year.

SAAC's position, relative to the actual license to SELL Shelby 'stuff' is that the license was obtained through 'fraud' some years ago. I DO NOT speak for SAAC, just passing on the opinions/observations I've made along the way. I don't see anything in the agreement that gives Shelby the right to the registry and certainly no right to acquire/use the SAAC name. Nor does the license agreement address the return of Shelbys personal 'stuff' (what ever that is supposed to be).

An interesting question might be: ASSUMING the license is in fact valid (a legal point of dispute) what should/will happen to the various trademarked 'goods' in SAAC's possession (hats, badges, etc.)? I would guess Shelby considers the registry to be part of the SAAC 'stuff' for sale and that is the basis for his legal argument.

[Nedsel]

In the event the suit was primarily based on the merchandise SAAC has which uses trade-named items owned by Shelby, it would be a snap to resolve: SAAC would return all of it, take a hit for the value of it (which would total no more than roughly $5000) and everyone would walk away. But clearly, there is much more involved, and it has - like most lawsuits - gotten to the point where one or both sides are unwilling or unable to rationally approach the sticking points that drove them apart in the first place. Changing this situation would be an excellent first step towards an acceptable resolution.