Looking For An Alloy CSX4000? Here Ya Go

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Uh, we've had this discussion before. Search function please.

Shhhh! Please keep it down so Evan doesn't hear you.

LOL, did you just search police me??

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

LOL, did you just search police me??

Of course not. You know WAY more than me. It was for the benefit for everyone else. By now, we should all know the similarities between Shelby/AC and SAI/HST/Hi-Tech/Kirkham/etc. Sorry Sal.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

You mean, like originals?

No intention of starting a religious flame war here - from the scorch marks on the walls, it's not the first time.

I'll simply point out that, once upon a time, Jim Davis actually drew the Garfield comic strip. For the last two decades, he's been an "executive cartoonist" while legions of drones turn out the strips, books, posters, etc. As a cartoon aficionado, that really ruins it for me - I'll take the work turned out by one artist, day after day, knowing he or she sweated blood to do it.

In the same way, there's perhaps a difference between distributing the load in a real racing season, and cynically rubber-stamping one's name on things in return for a check. In the end, $20-25k for Unca Carroll's blessing wasn't worth it to me. Nor do I think CSX4000's will ever appreciate like originals; they'll just remain some fraction of that premium pricier than other quality builds.

But no diss on any 4000 or its owner, none at all. This isn't even a chocolate-vanilla-strawberry world; it's 31 Flavors and they all have admirers.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Gunner

No intention of starting a religious flame war here - from the scorch marks on the walls, it's not the first time.

I'll simply point out that, once upon a time, Jim Davis actually drew the Garfield comic strip. For the last two decades, he's been an "executive cartoonist" while legions of drones turn out the strips, books, posters, etc. As a cartoon aficionado, that really ruins it for me - I'll take the work turned out by one artist, day after day, knowing he or she sweated blood to do it.

In the same way, there's perhaps a difference between distributing the load in a real racing season, and cynically rubber-stamping one's name on things in return for a check. In the end, $20-25k for Unca Carroll's blessing wasn't worth it to me. Nor do I think CSX4000's will ever appreciate like originals; they'll just remain some fraction of that premium pricier than other quality builds.

But no diss on any 4000 or its owner, none at all. This isn't even a chocolate-vanilla-strawberry world; it's 31 Flavors and they all have admirers.

Well, your Jim Davis example is a good theory, but still not quite the same thing. Shelby didn't manufacture the cars, AC did. Then shipped to Shelby where people Carroll HIRED to finish the cars, built them to customer specs. Carroll himself never really built cars. And, that's really just comp cars, as the street 427s were built entirely at AC, and shipped overseas to Shelby as finished running cars.

That's not to take anything away from the glory and history of original cars, but is that so different than a current CSX? Built by an outside company hired by Carroll to build him cars to sell. And since modern standards don't allow Shelby to sell a finished car, instead of the roller coming from AC and being finished at Shelby, now the rollers go to Shelby dealers to be finished (or the customer if they choose). And in reality, modern CSXs are more true Shelbys than orginals (of course original owners would never admit that, and I probably wouldn't either if I owned an original), because every part on the car is done to Shelby's specs. Shelby is in 100% control of the new cars.

Oh, and as for CSX4000 appreciation, they absolutely do appreciate. And they are the only non-60s Cobra that does. Before the economy took a hit, finished glass cars were selling for close to 100k, and finished alloys were hitting 150k. Currently they've dropped to selling for about what they cost to build, but yet most other brands of Cobra have dropped to considerably less than the cost to finish.

Just my 2 cents of course

[A-Snake]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

And, that's really just comp cars, as the street 427s were built entirely at AC, and shipped overseas to Shelby as finished running cars.

Oh no...there's new history being written

[rokndad]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Oh, and as for CSX4000 appreciation, they absolutely do appreciate. And they are the only non-60s Cobra that does. Before the economy took a hit, finished glass cars were selling for close to 100k, and finished alloys were hitting 150k. Currently they've dropped to selling for about what they cost to build, but yet most other brands of Cobra have dropped to considerably less than the cost to finish.

I usually watch from the sidelines on these types of threads while you all have lots of fun. Sal's comment is exactly why I decided on the CSX car, that was mostly fabricated and assembled by staff at SAI, while the body was built nearby at a prison, it was a "Shelby" to me. Ever since I saw the first Cobra blasting down Whittier Blvd coming from Dean Moon's in the early sixties, I wanted one. Can't afford the Shelby originals so when they started making them again in the late 90's that would be Registry eligible I thought I had a chance to get close.

So even though my fiberglas body may have black and white prison stripes and serial numbers on the underside, it looks like what I wanted and figured I would not lose too much of the investment because of where it was built and by whom. Those are documented facts backed by photographs that were important to me which, like many others on this and other threads have said, will tend to hold the value more than some others. I don't care about debate on the "real" issue. I walk away from that. The CSX built in Las Vegas at SAI is the one I wanted.

And by the way, the upcharge for a CSX car is not a matter of badging, it's a matter of parts and assembly. I couldn't be happier with the way my car is put together and I'm pretty mechanically inclined and fairly fussy. I've seen and crawled around lots of CSX 3000 series cars over the years, and mine is pretty close if not exact in most places. I drive it everywhere (8,000 mi), hasn't been on a trailer since I shipped it from TX, has rock chips, I really enjoy it and I don't cover it....

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Gunner

I dunno. I thought about a CSX4000 Shelby, but IMVVVVHO there's no such thing. Having various builders put them together for CS badging is bogus.

Buy a Kirkham if you want alloy. Buy an ERA or SPF if you want a solid model at lower cost than real tin. But I think the $20k for the pasted-on Shelby name is wasted. YMMV.

Are you suggesting the the aluminum CSX4000 is just adding a CSX number to a Kirkham for a $20k premium? It is not that simple. The CSX has Shelby suspension components, while the Kirkham has billet aluminum suspension pieces. The Shelby is painted, the Kirkham is not. ... Etc.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Are you suggesting the the aluminum CSX4000 is just adding a CSX number to a Kirkham for a $20k premium? It is not that simple. The CSX has Shelby suspension components, while the Kirkham has billet aluminum suspension pieces.

That's right. In addition to spending more, you also get inferior components.

[Excaliber]

It's not that cut and dried. You can spec a variety of suspension components on the Kirkham. From billet (most popular) to original (BIG dollars). Shelby specs vary from that, but it's a tough call to say which is "better". It all depends on what you want and are willing to pay. Is Shelby workmanship better than Kirkham? I wouldn't bet on that, both are of excellent quality. Many prefer a non painted alloy body so that could be a plus not a negative.

One thing's for sure, you won't get the Shelby name with a Kirkham and no matter what, that fact alone DOES add value to the car.

I really like the spec's on Sal's CSX car. It's very true to the original spirit and soul of a Cobra. For some of us that is a huge factor. In general, it seems to me, your more likely to find a Shelby closer to original specs than a Kirkham.

Sal's car is for sale but this is not a "plug", it's just recognizing reality. Let's assume Sal's car was a Kirkham and the same price as another Kirkham for sale, with billet this and that and more modern whatever. Hands down I would choose Sal's car, (not to mention the coveted CSX number).

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

One thing's for sure, you won't get the Shelby name with a Kirkham and no matter what, that fact alone DOES add value to the car.

Only to morons.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's right. In addition to spending more, you also get inferior components.

Well, technically, yes. And a heavier car too. But it is a really nice paint job. Add a really nice paint job to a Kirkham and see what that costs.

If I had the extra cash burning a hole in my pocket where I could get either a Kirkham or an alloy CSX4000, I would get the Kirkham.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

If I had the extra cash burning a hole in my pocket where I could get either a Kirkham or an alloy CSX4000, I would get the Kirkham.

I had my pick of the two... and I went with an ERA.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Well, technically, yes. And a heavier car too. But it is a really nice paint job. Add a really nice paint job to a Kirkham and see what that costs.

If I had the extra cash burning a hole in my pocket where I could get either a Kirkham or an alloy CSX4000, I would get the Kirkham.

I'm not sure, but adding a fully polished or even a brushed finish on a bare alloy CSX, would add a lot of money too. I think that's a wash or close to it, but I've never spec'ed a CSX alloy car.

The Kirkhams charge $8,000 for a brushed finish and $10,000 for a polished finish. Stripes are even more money.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That's right. In addition to spending more, you also get inferior components.

And of course, you can spend more and get the inferior original suspension from Kirkham too.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

And of course, you can spend more and get the inferior original suspension from Kirkham too.

Ahh, that's one thing I learned while in New Britain... the more you spend, the more you get, and the better it is.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

The Shelby is painted, the Kirkham is not. ... Etc.

You can spec "no paint" for your alloy Shelby. However, Shelby will paint your car, but Kirkham will not.

Patrick...morons? Really? All that therapy gone down the drain. The Shelby name does add value for some, nay, many, but not everyone. This is definitely old territory.

For me the added attraction WAS the billet aluminum pieces, gauges that actually work, battery in trunk, etc. The R&D was one of MY reasons for buying a Kirkham. I'm hoping that some of that new R&D on the $1MM Larry Ellison Cobra will trickle down to the older and obviously new Kirkhams.

Appreciation was not a purchase decision point for me when deciding which Cobra to buy. There are other reasons, but why bore everyone to death.

Chocolate, strawberry and vanilla. Everyone likes a different flavor.

[dcdoug]

OK, what's YMMV. I haven't seen that before.

[Excaliber]

Maurice makes an interesting point about the BNL series car (Bare Naked Lady). Maybe it's LESS work than having paint! I kind of assumed it was more after seeing that Kirkham in bad need of some serious polishing.

Gunner does raise a worthy point about some of the CSX cars, something I to have pondered. OK, it really is a "Shelby", parts gathered up to HIS specifications and he has some control over who does the build. If a builder isn't doing a good job, he's liable to get his license pulled or his butt kicked or both. But there are cases where the "parts" and "pieces" have been assembled by an individual owner or that owners chosen builder is outside the loop of approved Shelby builders. At one point does the car start to loose it's pedigree?

We DO see Shelby ad's noting it's a "Las Vegas" car, I think that carries some weight. Who the supplier was, who built it, under what circumstances, etc. doesn't seem to carry "that much" weight though, I'm surprised by that. Testimony to the power of the BRAND NAME over and beyond any other factors.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Maurice makes an interesting point about the BNL series car (Bare Naked Lady). Maybe it's LESS work than having paint! I kind of assumed it was more after seeing that Kirkham in bad need of some serious polishing.

As I said above, I think painted and BNL Cobras both require maintenance. The amount of maintenance performed is entirely up to the owner. Chips can be repaired and dings can be repaired. It's really only about time and money.

[Gunner]

dcdoug, YMMV is netspeak: Your Mileage May Vary. Meaning you might have a totally different, equally valid take on something.

There's an interesting parallel in the news today. Roger Penske was negotiating to pick up Saturn from GM. Last I heard, GM was going to continue to build the cars for the "new" maker until they got their own facilities in place, three or four years down the road. Now Penske has thrown in the towel because some OTHER maker declined to make a deal to build the cars for him. So... exactly what would Penske/Saturn have been, if Penske is just a manager and some hired factory (GM at first, then probably someone like Daewoo or Cherry) builds the cars? Call me really old fashioned, but I think cars are one thing that need to be built by whoever sells them, not shopped out like contract computers.

And, um, that goes double for exotics like "Shelbys." IMHO. YMMV.