have you registered a cobra in NSW?

[Merv and Sharon]

Thanks Liam. No news is good news.

[Rob. Smith]

Originally Posted by Zedn

There has been some positive outcomes and a policy will be released shortly. I have been asked not to spread the word on the details until they have a policy out as they want to make sure there is no misunderstanding.

The information i have been told from the horses mouth is positive and will help with a more achievable criteria.

Watch this space.

I can't wait to see it in 'official' writing. The spoken word from any governing body is just that....spoken.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Any news in NSW? Are things changing? Baz how are your preparations?

Sorry Merv. I'm in the same boat as Liam (See his thread No. 120) There is a new Policy being released by the RTA in NSW relative to ICV's. All I can say at this time is that "The sooner, the better."

Baz

[suthol]

G'day all,

Much like Baz I have news that I can't share but I have been offered guidance through the maze and in the next week or so will be putting their word to the test.

Most likely by the time I have an outcome one way or the other the " news " will be common knowledge.

I honestly feel that measured the approach that some have taken in presenting a well argued case has seen the clouds clear a bit with potentially more to come.

A piece of advice that is given to all new builders over on Ozclubbies is to talk to " your " engineer before you spend a cent, he / she knows what the local pitfalls and paths are and will offer solid advice. What works in the adjacent state may not be acceptable in yours.

The couple of hundred bucks you will spend for this advice upfront may well save a whole world of pain further down track.

[Baz]

Good news at last from the RTA.

The following document was released yesterday (14/6/2011) by Peter Helleur, Project Officer, NSW Centre for Road Safety RTA on behalf of the Manager, Regulations and Recall, Dan Leavy and apparently went out to all the registered Engineering Signatories within NSW quote:-

Dear Engineering Signatory,

The review of the applicability of Australian Design Rules (ADRs) to modified and individually constructed vehicles is progressing. At this stage, the RTA has carried out an internal review of the comments received, and will shortly circulate a response to the people who made submissions - thank you to those who did so. Following that, a meeting will be convened to discuss the findings of the review, prior to circulating the draft to all signatories for approval and formal release as a policy.

In the meantime, there are a number of ADRs that have regularly been the subject of debate, and which attracted considerable comments during the review. These are ADR 3/03 Seats and seat anchorages, ADR 5/05 Anchorages for seat belts, and ADR 10/02 Steering columns. The comments made were consistent, and identified problems with stringently applying the ADRs to modified and individually constructed vehicles. They also identified that the previous advice given by the RTA to clarify the requirements may not have clearly stated the alternatives that can be used.

Rather than wait to formalise the policy as a whole, the RTA is prepared to make a determination on alternative methods that may be used to certify a vehicle against these three ADRs. These alternatives follow extensive debate on the subject, both within and outside the RTA, and with other jurisdications and the Federal Department of Infrastructure and Transport (DIT); and takes cognisance of the document New Vehicle Low Volume Scheme; Evidence Examination Procedures Manual, Version 2.2 in which the DIT allows for assessing ADR compliance under its Low Vehicle Volume Scheme.

The alternative means to demonstrate compliance against the three ADRs are as follows:

ADR 3/03. Seats and seat anchorages and ADR 5/05 Anchorages for seat belts: The RTA will accept testing or examination providing they have been done in accordance with the following:

Where evidence is provided by calculation, it must be based on a comprehensive stress analysis incororating the forces specified in the ADRs and which provides a professional analysis of all the likely modes of failure. The calculations must have a proper regard to the interaction and combination of shear and bending forces. Overly simplistic assumptions about the behaviour of sheet metal must not be made where thin metal sections are involved in combination with high local stresses. The calculations must take into account the condition of the vehicle in which the item is being installed, and confirm that it is capable of withstanding the forces specified in the ADRs. The calculations must show, that in practical engineering terms, the item and subject vehicle meet the requirements of the ADRs. Simple calculations or calculations that neglect to include an appraisal of the host vehicle will not be accepted.

When evidence is provided by comparison, it must be by way of direct comparison with the components from another vehicle known to comply with the ADRs. It must included physical observations and measurements of all main parts on the reference vehicle and the subject vehicle with, if there is any doubt, some assessment of the relevant physical properties of the materials used. It must also include an assessment of the condition of the subject vehicle that confirms its suitability for properly accomodating the components.

The items must be compatible with the vehicle, and be installed in accordance with the manufacurer's specifications; and the seats must comply with ADR 3/03.

ADR 10/02 Steering columns: For ICVs the RTA will accept steering columns that comply with the earlier version of the standard, ADR 10/01. Evidence of compliance to ADR 10/01 will be required for the steering column installed in the vehicle. This may be by calculation or comparison with the steering column installed in a standard production vehicle; see above for proving compliance by these means.

These alternative means may be used immediately. I must stress they are not relaxing the need to comply with the ADRs, and if you chose to use them, the supporting evidence must be available and provided to the RTA on request.

Please contact the RTA at:
engineer-certificates@rta.gov.nsw.au
if you have any queries on this matter. (End quote)

This is a big plus for ICV builders as previously, we had to have destructive type tests conducted on our vehicles such as "Seat Belt Mount Pull Tests" which either distorted the chassis or weakened the mounting points. ADR 10/02 required us to fit Steering Columns which were virtually unobtainable in Australia so I really welcome this initiative by the RTA.


Baz

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Any news in NSW? Are things changing? Baz how are your preparations?

Great news from the RTA yesterday Merv. It will have massive positive implications for all ICV bilders in NSW. I have posted the news release from the RTA separately on this thread.


Baz

[Dimis]

Quite frankly this is the least they could do!

Baz - thank you for continuing the fight on behalf of us all.

[Zedn]

This is fantastic to see they are following up on what they have told us. I recieved a letter last week that was much the same only with a different first paragraph.

There is no reason now that a vehicle should not pass rego in NSW.

BJSnake, i guess we wernt stirring S**t after all?

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Zedn

This is fantastic to see they are following up on what they have told us. I recieved a letter last week that was much the same only with a different first paragraph.

There is no reason now that a vehicle should not pass rego in NSW.

BJSnake, i guess we wernt stirring S**t after all?

My Engineer and I have a meeting appointment with RTA Vehicle Standards in their Parramatta office next Monday, fingers crossed.


Baz

[Merv and Sharon]

This is looking like some common sense coming through Baz. You have done well. There is no point their appointing/annointing engineers, if they don't trust them. And no point stipulating airbags and contemporary steering columns if there is no evidence that they are better in ICVs than earlier versions. When you get this damned car of yours registered you will have done more than just register a vehicle.

[Outwest34au]

You guys are doing a good job of standing up for yourselves and hundreds of others.

High Five dudes.

[Tenrocca]

Originally Posted by Baz

My Engineer and I have a meeting appointment with RTA Vehicle Standards in their Parramatta office next Monday, fingers crossed.


Baz

Baz - are you still with your "original" engineer?

Cheers

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Baz - are you still with your "original" engineer?

Cheers

Yes Andrew and the funny thing is.... He's still alive.... I have driven him absolutely crazy in the past few months and now I think he just wants to see plates on my car and me out of his life foreverer.



Baz

[suthol]

Time to bump this a bit.

There was a meeting between a group of engineers and the RTA on 19/07 to discuss the approval process, what was acceptable and also the dreaded VSCCS.

I had a quick chat to my engineer on Friday to discuss moving my approval process on again and it's fair to say he was pretty upbeat about what was discussed and agreed at the meeting.

Because I don't have more detail yet the summary of what they came up with seems to be something that is akin to where we were 2 1/2 years ago before the difficulties set in.

Because my chassis is a self build to my design things are slightly more complicated because I have had to have analysis done on the seatbelt anchor points and seat mounts ( modeled in FEA ).

It was an interesting exercise because whilst the seatbelt mounts would have passed a physical test they would have definitely deformed the mounting points on the tunnel by 8mm so not a fail but a major compromise of the safety if the test had been enforced.

FYI. The test indicates a pull of 1.3 Tonnes across the lap and sash for a defined period and in the interests of simplifying the test we applied 1.3T to each point individually so grossly exceeded the ADR, the deflection of the tunnel mounts was 8mm with a 1.3T pull.

We have done the same with the seat mounts and I expect to have the results in my inbox tomorrow. ( bastrad went to the snow for a week )

[Zedn]

Dave i thought that the force is doubled at that the buckle mount in the ADR?

[suthol]

Originally Posted by Zedn

Dave i thought that the force is doubled at that the buckle mount in the ADR?

Could be right Liam, I posted the figures from memory which as you know I have the recall of a geriatric goldfish.

I don know that Steve applied a total of 3.9T and the engineer was happy with the FEA results that I emailed to him.

Merv,

In answer to not trusting the engineers that they licence, the work that some of them present was appaling so something had to be done they just went too far in the other direction.

An example of poor attention to detail was a HiLux that one of my son's did a suspension and body lift on as well as convert the IFS to live axle.

Not an insignificent modification but very well done and his report covered off brakes, lane change and aftermarket turbo.

All this despite not hearing it started, sitting in the car or seeing it driven.

Fortunately he is no longer practicing.

Now back to the important things such as getting the rego process moving again.

Regards
Dave king

[Towmaster]

Good to hear things are progressing guys.

[suthol]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

Good to hear things are progressing guys.

A combined effort by quite a large number of people ( including a couple of manufacturers ) all approaching the issue from different angles and most importantly all singing from the same song book and being reasonably polite if at time sounding impatient gave us back some rights to build what we love.

Now for everyone to go steady and be realistic so it doesn't get stuffed up again.