New Pace 427 Build

[Tonus72]

Hi Richard

Can you please tell me why you went with that engine and gearbox combo?

I am no expert, so would appreciate the result of your enquiries...

Eg TKO and LS3 was what I was planning...

Cheers

Tony

[d488y2]

Originally Posted by Tonus72

Hi Richard

Can you please tell me why you went with that engine and gearbox combo?

I am no expert, so would appreciate the result of your enquiries...

Eg TKO and LS3 was what I was planning...

Cheers

Tony

The gearbox in the picture looks like a 5 speed TKO 600 to me? The 6060 box is a 6 speed and is rounder and bigger.
Mal Wood Automotive - Tremec Information

[RGF]

Originally Posted by Tonus72

Hi Richard

Can you please tell me why you went with that engine and gearbox combo?

I am no expert, so would appreciate the result of your enquiries...

Eg TKO and LS3 was what I was planning...

Cheers

Tony

Hi Tony,

I think I may have mis-typed the gearbox which is a TKO600.

I wish I could say it was scientific, but the engine choice came from talking to a couple of people, including Craig White at AP, and Neil Streeting. I know that there are a multitude of different opinions out there, but I have taken the option of the Holden engine because I understand it to be a better/more reliable engine. As I say, though, there will be lots of people who would say the same about other engines too.

The gearbox was easier. I don't like 6-speed boxes, which the Holden comes with, plus the Holden box would have placed the gear lever somewhere in the boot of the car (well, not quite). Again, Craig recommended the Tremec, and I was happy to go with his advice. It is a 5 speed box, which I wanted, and once it was fitted, I could see that his recommendation about the positioning of the gear lever in the cabin was spot on - at least for where I wanted it.

I have seen Brad's Cobra up at AP and he has a Ford engine in his, I think. It has a lot more space around it, which would be good, but the Holden engine sits well back in the engine bay so there is still a good amount of room around most of it.

Of course, the proof (or otherwise) will come when I start to drive it!

Hope that helps.

Richard

[Tonus72]

Hi Richard

sounds good. I am also planning an LS with a TKO600... I figure these cars really do not need a 6 speed, especially the way I plan to drive mine (ie very carefully!!)

I am keen to hear how your drivetrain fits in, as I will be copying it later on.

I plan an LS3 but no doubt they are identical (?) to bolt in.

Enjoy, and thanks for the pics

Tony

[RGF]

Hi Tony,

The only thing to watch out for is the front left side chassis strut. In mine, it is about an inch too far back and so there is only a 2 mm clearance between it and the alternator. I understand that this has been fixed on subsequent chassis' (Craig is going to work out a fix for mine - probably re-welding the strut slightly further forward). So it shouldn't be a problem for you. Here is a picture which shows what I mean. It is taken from above the engine on the left side, looking down. The front of the car is to the left of the shot and the alternator is right in the middle - you can see there is almost no gap between it and the chassis strut.



I didn't fit the engine, gearbox and diff myself, Neil Streeting did this for me. The hard part, as I understand it, is in fitting the diff. One of the guys at Craig's factory told me the trick to doing this (you need to remove a bolt in the diff and then roll the diff in), but this is covered in the manual so you should be okay.

One thing you might want to consider is adding an ABS system, which will require a separate brake line to run to the rear. I'm going to do this soon and it will be trickier now that the engine and transmission are in. If you are thinking about doing this, doing so before the engine goes in will be the way to go.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Richard

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Tonus72

I figure these cars really do not need a 6 speed, especially the way I plan to drive mine (ie very carefully!!)

Tony, I just had a look at TKO600/T56/Magnum ratios on Tremec's web site and the 6th gear on a T56/Magnum is typically lower than the 5th gear on a TKO, with 4th gear on both boxes being the same ratio, ie, 1.00.

Have you worked out your engine RPMs at highway cruising speed? A second overdrive might be preferable.

TKO ratios

T56 Magnum ratios

[Tonus72]

Hi Richard

that is great info and detail - thanks for the pic too. Thanks for the heads up on ABS - it is not something I plan at this stage, but I am open to it. It all comes down to how much more complicated it is. By the time I can start my build it might be an ADR requirement anyway.

Sambo - I have not got down to that level of detail yet. I see what you are saying though about the extra overdrive. I will wait and see what others find is a good combo taking the various diff ratios into account too. I would be happy with about 2000 revs or just over at 110km/hr in top. With an LS3, TKO and 3.27 diff (from memory the highest HSV non-LSD diff) how would that work out?

Cheers

Tony

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Tonus72

With an LS3, TKO and 3.27 diff (from memory the highest HSV non-LSD diff) how would that work out?

Here's a handy tool.

MFactory® Competition Products - Gear Calculator

Just plug in your tyre size (eg, 275/45 R17), 3.27 final drive, redline for LS3 is 6600 and ratios for one of the LS boxes in the link below. Drag your mouse over the graph to find RPM for a given speed and gear.

Gear ratios - Magnum 6-Speed Transmission

When you click calculate it uses the "query string" in the URL to store your settings - which you can then bookmark for later. Here's one example showing 1500rpm in 6th gear for the "TUET11009" variant.

Gear calculator for LS3 with 3.27 diff and Magnum TUET11009 box

97km/h at the top of 1st gear and a top speed of 408km/h, nice!

[Tonus72]

Sold!

Originally Posted by sambo

97km/h at the top of 1st gear and a top speed of 408km/h, nice!

[d488y2]

Tony, Craig has all the gear ratios/rpm's on a pdf file ask him to send you a copy.

[Modena]

There's also an RPM calculator on the Vic club page here;

Cobra Car Club of Victoria - Speed Ratio Calculator

[pigsear]

Hi RGF, I have PACE chassis #20 and my front chassis beam on the left side is dog legged. I guess that is the change PACE was making. I thought it was weird at the time as assumed it was for the steering shaft but that wouldn't work as it is RHD. Not sticking a Chevy in it though, sticking to the Winnie Blues 427 (351W all aluminium Ford Racing with a 6 speed Tremec). I do appreciate the photos as it helps with the assembly. Cheers, Pigsears.

[750hp]

Originally Posted by pigsear

Hi RGF, I have PACE chassis #20 and my front chassis beam on the left side is dog legged. I guess that is the change PACE was making. I thought it was weird at the time as assumed it was for the steering shaft but that wouldn't work as it is RHD. Not sticking a Chevy in it though, sticking to the Winnie Blues 427 (351W all aluminium Ford Racing with a 6 speed Tremec). I do appreciate the photos as it helps with the assembly. Cheers, Pigsears.

Welcome aboard mate. Great to see another build happening in SEQ. It would be great to see you start a build thread so we can see how things are orogressing for you. A word of advice: the more photos and details the better!!!

[RGF]

Hi Pigsear.

The dog-leg makes sense and that's probably what they will do with mine too.

I will keep the photos coming and hope they are useful.

Good luck with your build!

Cheers,

Richard

[RGF]

Finally I have found some time to catch up on updating the build thread. So here are some shots of the rear axles

Rear upright ready for axle to be fitted


Rear axle with cv joint fitted and greased


Chromoly axle stubs inserted into diff


Right rear axle fitted (note right is longer than the left)


Left rear axle fitted

[RGF]

Finally I have found some time to catch up on updating the build thread. So here are some shots of the rear axles

Rear upright ready for axle to be fitted


Rear axle with cv joint fitted and greased


Chromoly axle stubs inserted into diff


Right rear axle fitted (note right is longer than the left)


Left rear axle fitted

[RGF]

The front lights and indicators are fitted. I've been given orange indicators, but am not sure if that is standard or whether they should be clear with an orange bulb.

Front indicators fitted




Rear of front indicator


Headlight bucket


Headlight unit in place - adjuster screws at 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock




Finished front headlights and indicators


I am finding the site slow to upload images and to post just now - is anyone else? Will try to load more photos over the coming week

Cheers,

Richard

[RGF]

Fitting the rear number plate bracket


Holes drilled


Rear number plate bracket & light fitted

[d488y2]

Thanks for the progress update Pics.
It's amazing how a little bit of Bright work transforms the look of the Car.
Any side on pics?

[RGF]

Originally Posted by d488y2

Thanks for the progress update Pics.
It's amazing how a little bit of Bright work transforms the look of the Car.
Any side on pics?

I have just fitted the side louvre a, so will try to find an updated photo of that to post.

Thanks to everyone with information about the indicators. I am visiting the AP factory on Tuesday to collect some parts, so will ask Craig about this when I am there.

I have decided to fit ABS to the car, so will need to add a second brake line to the rear. This is something I would have been better doing BEFORE the engine etc went in, but better late than.... I hope to get the extra parts next week and to start fitting the brake lines next weekend.

Cheers,


Richard