Cobra Nats 2017! - Page 4

Tenrocca · #1 (**permalink**) 10-16-2016, 07:19 PM

Heres an idea. Rather than speculate, lets email all the entries from the last 5 years that didnt attend this year and find out why. Just a quick 2 question survey:

1) Why did you not attend?
2) What would make you more likely to attend in future?

I could whip something up in google forms in about 2 minutes....

spookypt · #2 (**permalink**) 10-16-2016, 11:35 PM

Dimi, I certainly like the idea of some driver training/buddy type stuff. If people come away from the event feeling as though they have learnt to drive better as a result that has too be a good thing. I know after my first nats I said I would never try and expose the cars limits on the street as I learnt on the track just how easy it was to have a lose (but thankfully in a controlled environment.)

As to the event overall getting significantly faster...... The more seasoned guys would be able to share on this than I. There is no doubt some of the racers like Madison and LJ etc who all have a motorsport background interest are lapping very fast in street driven cars. Mads, LJ and Kim all went around between 1.05 - 1.07s. I think Ash and Chunky probably have done 1.05s in there cobra? But I'd suggest the rest of the every day driver field aren't too far away from where they were in 2009. The track resurfacing has made overall for better times I must admit. But are these guys going quick a deterrent for those who aren't???

I do think the race car class has got A LOT faster. Scotty H in 09 did a 1.12. Geoff T did a 1.06 in 2012 and I think Paul from Vic did a 1.02 on old slicks in 2014. I think Gary Walther may have done a 1.02 back in 2006? Those cars are getting very fast but are all designed and built to do so. I like seeing these BIG BANGERS running around as much as seeing the shiny ones. For street class cars as a guide Pete H (who has won KK) did a 1.14 in 2009 and then a 1.12 in 2012. But from a competitive perspective I think LJ, Pete, Mads, Kim etc etc would all be in 5l class. All those guys would be quick in a Prius! You could move to the controlled tyre class if you felt you couldn't compete for KK in the open 5L category I guess if chasing the KK was your thing.

The biggest sole gain in lap times bang for buck is tyres and I think many now are buying their new boots pre-event to get their lap times down. I can only think of Scotty H doing that back in the day but now many looking to get a personal edge are doing it.

Back in the early to mid 2000's most drove their cars from Qld and now most trailer them. If someone had of said to me that in 2017 guys would have Winnebago's and 5th wheel trailers etc for travelling around in I'd have laughed my a$$ off and yet next year we will have 4 x 5th wheel trailers and a Winnebago at the first round of the A series. Its evolution I guess but shouldn't be a deterrent for those who want to pack a duffle bag and a shifting spanner and load it into their cars boot and drive their car to the Nats. Certainly there's more than enough help and parts in those 5th wheel trailers to help everyone out if needed. That's what I love about the Nats the most people helping people.

At the end of the day some come to the Nats to chase the title, some come for the social activities, some come for the drive to get away from work and family, some come to beat last years times and some come to catch up with everyone they had a laugh with the year before or combinations of all of the above.

Its no easy task for the NSW committee to put the show together as well as satisfy what everyone wants and/or thinks is needed. I hope though that with all the great suggestions made on this topic they may see some ideas worthy of persuing.

Maybe the Qld, Vic, SA, ACT, WA etc clubs should put together their own state based Nats committees to help with the gee up on numbers for the annual event???

(Kim, as you know Im happy to help wherever possible doing whatever is required from a QLD perspective so please keep me in the loop if I can be of assistance.)

Spookypt

spookypt · #3 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 12:29 AM

Hey Phil I reckon I waZ robbed for best engine bay in 06.... Can you tell me who the judges were if its not too late to register a formal protest!

Aussie Mike · #4 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spookypt

Hey Phil I reckon I waZ robbed for best engine bay in 06.... Can you tell me who the judges were if its not too late to register a formal protest!

It was the gold wheels mate. The judges just couldn't get past them gold wheels especially with your cam pulleys reminding them.

spookypt · #5 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 07:46 PM

Just to give you some comparison... and this isnt an apples and oranges comparison to what us Cobra guys are doing just some more food for thought...
The Lotus Marque Nationals event is Biannual. And is shared amongst the states as a host.

Next year is in Vic at Winton over a Sat, Sun & Monday long weekend. Lots of dinners, tours and driving. h
ttp://www.lotus2017.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid= 435

Costs are
DRIVE ($325)
SPRINT ($345)
RACE ($385) Yep they have 3 door to door races with race and street cars all mixed in (reverse grid too lol) on the Sunday as well as timed sprints. (Im a member and I know 1/2 the cars don't have a cage but they run under AASA not CAMS)

Lotus-Only Track Day, 24 APRIL 2017 - Simply Sports Cars

tomcat racing · #6 (**permalink**) 10-17-2016, 10:50 PM

Well said Phil,
Like you mentioned, it has become a total race fest with lap times lowered each year, pressure to compete and the danger of crashes, [ Gavs write off last year would not of helped ] and i think that might have put off some people who attended years ago,
For those who have 100 octane in their veins, they will always be there and good on them but not everyone wants to join that club.
Lets face it the Nationals is about racing and lap times and not much else and people just move on.
Im not argueing with anyone, thats my opinion having seen it from back then untill now, take it or leave it.
Good luck with any changes and we will see if the numbers increase next year.

Gav · #7 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 12:42 AM

I prefer to call it 'stunt driving' Tommy

spookypt · #8 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 03:04 AM

Was bloody Tenrocca head judge that year?

Aussie Mike · #9 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 07:45 AM

In all honesty though Spook, I reckon that was about the best looking Toyota V8 I've ever seen.

Cheers

750hp · #10 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 08:38 AM

I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.

tomcat racing · #11 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 750hp

I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.

Thats why i do the Australia classic rally in cairns, over 600 ks of rallying over 2 days in beautifull countryside from Innisfail to Port Douglas and the Atherton Tableland, time trials, navigation and observation and the chance to run up and down the four major mountain passes, the Palmerston, the Gillies, Kuranda, and the Rex and full noise on some of the back roads, great comraderie, lunch beside waterfalls, vineyards, coffee plantations and alacarte dinners at night all included, a really well run event and obviously within a days drive for me, last year some entrants drove their cars up from Sydney and Melbourne to attend and make a holliday of it, great for husband and wife teams and the women love it. For me personally it beats standing around a freezing cold racetrack for 3 days trying to lower my times by a tenth, but to each his own, and i wont rule out attending the nationals again.

mudbrick · #12 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 750hp

I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.

I can only press the like button once...so here is an alternative
like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like, like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,

spookypt · #13 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 09:37 PM

I wonder if the 50 odd entries that participated in the Nats this year would swap the track event experience for a total non track touring event like Craig and Tom suggest?

The Nats has in the past offered touring packages for those not wanting to do track stuff but still enjoy the dinners, S&S and touring around Canberra wineries etc etc and my understanding is that it was really poorly attended. So while the touring option in years passed has been offered, its not been embraced which may suggest those people who want to just tour don't turn up to support the part of the Nationals program that's been created for them??? Dunno.

Its no secret I love the roundy roundy of WP and Im all for keeping it there. But I love seeing more people attend whether it be touring or track as it just creates a much better vibe and in turn the enthusiasm grows. Its not to say I couldn't personally do a touring type event with my other car but I wouldn't as I enjoy the track too much and if it went that way I would invest my time and dollars into other things. For me its about a $5k holiday for me only once I include food, fuel, tyres etc etc. I can take my entire family to Bali for 2 weeks for that and have change left over. And for us Dads Cobras are 2 seaters so anyone with tinlids are eliminated. So even if I wanted to tour I couldn't/wouldn't.

Whatever direction is taken its not going to totally please everyone. The trick is to try and get the balance right and encourage attendance from both sides of the fence to make for a great annual event but it will require both sides of the touring/track ledger to support it.

tomcat racing · #14 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spookypt

I wonder if the 50 odd entries that participated in the Nats this year would swap the track event experience for a total non track touring event like Craig and Tom suggest?

The Nats has in the past offered touring packages for those not wanting to do track stuff but still enjoy the dinners, S&S and touring around Canberra wineries etc etc and my understanding is that it was really poorly attended. So while the touring option in years passed has been offered, its not been embraced which may suggest those people who want to just tour don't turn up to support the part of the Nationals program that's been created for them??? Dunno.

Its no secret I love the roundy roundy of WP and Im all for keeping it there. But I love seeing more people attend whether it be touring or track as it just creates a much better vibe and in turn the enthusiasm grows. Its not to say I couldn't personally do a touring type event with my other car but I wouldn't as I enjoy the track too much and if it went that way I would invest my time and dollars into other things. For me its about a $5k holiday for me only once I include food, fuel, tyres etc etc. I can take my entire family to Bali for 2 weeks for that and have change left over. And for us Dads Cobras are 2 seaters so anyone with tinlids are eliminated. So even if I wanted to tour I couldn't/wouldn't.

Whatever direction is taken its not going to totally please everyone. The trick is to try and get the balance right and encourage attendance from both sides of the fence to make for a great annual event but it will require both sides of the touring/track ledger to support it.

Of course they wont, like you, most of them are hard core racers and live for the nationals to get away from their wives for a week for a bit of male bonding, they are not interested in anything else except WP and thats OK, im not suggesting anything for the nationals im just saying what i find more appealing for me and no doubt the other 50 odd entrants that used to attend and have moved on, im with 750, you have made the nationals what it is today stop trying to over analyse it and live with what you got.

Tenrocca · #15 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 10:28 PM

The Nationals is a pretty unique event on the calendar in that is one of the few opportunities for most of us to test out our cars and skills on a track. The more social aspect to car ownership already exists through various events (eg. Surf to Summit Cooma which is well attended by Cobra folk).

I would hate to see the nats become a drive through the Adelaide hills stopping for Chardonnay and Cucumber and Watercress sandwiches.

The other thing a few havent noticed the nats were a lot less competitive this year. Class 3 used to be the class for the big boys with the top 5-6 all under 1:09 (just guessing without looking back). Not anymore. Other classes have been introduced over the last few years (control tyre and 15") to accomodate those that didnt want to go the full serious racer but still have a bit of fun. The times to be competitive in these classes are really reasonable.

If you don't enter because you don't think you'll bring home a $2 plastic trophy you have bigger problems than your lap times. You can still go out and have a ball without being at the pointy end.

spookypt · #16 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 10:39 PM

I've "analysed" Tomcat's position and he's not coming. Moving on.....

spookypt · #17 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 10:42 PM

Tenrocca I just saw this as you mentioned..

SURF TO SUMMIT

I think some of the Qld guys do this but its not afaik promoted as a Cobra event up here. Perhaps it could be a good offering for QLD guys to come down and join in. I think Wazza, Paul G and Ron F do it but I think its more a private friend thing than an actual organsied QLD CCC event. That right Wazzazza?

Philm · #18 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 11:07 PM

That is sort of what I was saying, the event is a racers weekend and there is nothing wrong with that and if 50 is the number then its all good to go.

Trying make it more broad in its appeal has been done and lost.

I am not sure there is that need anymore for that interstate connection that was a big part of the nationals 10 years ago, people are more connected by other means these days.

Possibly at 50 entrants the finances all work, its still a strong number and things would run so smooth plenty of track time.

Phil

spookypt · #19 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 11:19 PM

Phil, the problem is 50's not enough with the current running costs.

As quoted by Wazza..

"Currently 50? entrants paying $550 ? =$27,500 with a track costing $40,000 = behind by $12,500."

Thus the reason for the topic as the current 50 entrants for the 3 days track hire falls well short. Do we either increase attendance by offering more over the 3 days or do we decrease track time to 2 days and possibly lose some of the existing numbers??

Matt

tomcat racing · #20 (**permalink**) 10-18-2016, 11:21 PM

Hey Spooky,
As you know ive got one of the fastest street regd cobras in the country, and its only NA, no bolt ons, not that great around a tight track, but thats not what it was built for, but faster in a straight line than anything that has showed up in all classes at the nationals in the last couple of years, and that does not entice me to come down and take a trophy home.