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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-11-2016, 05:26 PM
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I certainly see it as a bit of a privilege for me to be able to compete (I'm laughing at me using the word "compete") at the Nats by being a club member. But I was curious as to whether as Damage suggested, if it was opened up to NCM would he choose or others alike choose, to attend? I'm guessing that if clubs aren't their thing perhaps a National gathering of clubs isn't either but it would eliminate that as being a part of the process in building going forward. I'm not picking on Damage in any way, just using it as an example of a QLDer, non club member who may or may not attend.
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Old 10-12-2016, 12:22 AM
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I hope that whatever happens, the Nationals stays as it is.

Although it is highly likely I wont compete again (Main reason for me is distance/cost, not cost of entry, but cost to attend, fuel, accommodation etc. For me to attend it is 2 weeks away from home and work).
I would most likely attend as a spectator again (but I will admit I find it frustrating watching and not competing), with any luck when we move, I will attend as it is only a 2 day drive each way.
I think the Friday should be more like an open practice (same as Friday at Shelbyfest).

I can honestly admit the few times I have attended has always been a great fun weekend with many laughs along the way.

Would it be worth opening up to non Cobra Club entries?
Maybe get the word out amongst car clubs, Facebook social media etc to simply get more competitors?
I am sure there are plenty of Cobra's out there whose owners may not be a member of a specific Cobra car club?
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Old 10-12-2016, 01:29 AM
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Im a member of the nswccc. I have only ever attended one meeting and one non nationals event in 8 years (Bathurst drivers parade last week) . I'm a member pretty much only to attend the nats. It's not expensive, and doesn't mean you have to be an active member. I just don't have a lot of time for a lot of the social stuff.
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Old 10-12-2016, 04:32 AM
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I merely made a suggestion that I thought may be valid. Would I attend if there was no requirement to be a club member? Quite possible I would. I know a few other cobra owners that aren't members who the thought may appeal too also. Perhaps there are more in QLD to. Maybe if there was a different entry fee for non members it would also help with individual state memberships as well.

Just some suggestions to help.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:06 AM
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I didnt know that either, so i need to join the NSWCC to participate next year?
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:44 AM
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All suggestions are worthy for consideration mate and I appreciate all contributions to this topic. Another thing that may make non members an issue is that the qccc has its own insurances for members that gives certain coverage to its financial members for public liability etc.

That issue alone may make the idea of non member participation a no go.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:45 AM
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I didnt know that either, so i need to join the NSWCC to participate next year?

No mate you're banned! You won't get through WP metal detectors.
Plus wouldn't you be an honorary QLDer now having had your car in residence here for quite some time.
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Old 10-12-2016, 06:04 AM
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Does that mean I can wear a Maroon coat at the Nats??
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Old 10-13-2016, 02:37 PM
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Its not often I have a big say but here's my 4 bob's worth. I think if you open it up to non CCC members you would need to expand the event, not consolidate it. This event would need to become a pure racing event as it appears that the majority of non-members that would be interested in it, are looking for racing events. It does seem to be almost that now.
Don't get me wrong, I love the racing aspect and could go round and round the track all week, but I think the nationals has lost the thing that once brought along most club members; the relaxed atmosphere, an enjoyable social event for partners, and events that all attendees were happy to enter.

I have attended all Nationals barring the first at Mildura in '94 and the last at West Wyalong (WW) in 2000, when my second daughter arrived. We consistently had in the order of 100 entries along with spouses and several families, both at WW and the early Goulburn meets. The Nationals was started as an event to bring all the members from across the states together for a National meet, before individual state clubs were formed. The events were low key and consisted of a Show and Shine, a Poker Run, and a Go to Whoa on a closed back street on Saturday and Motorkhana, Drags and a 1 kilometre sprint at the airport on Sunday. Some other novelty stuff like visiting the local weighbridge to determine most lightest and most lush Cobra. Not exactly adrenalin pumping stuff, and we were always looking to up the ante, but perhaps it has gone too far.

With insurance premiums escalating, and speeds getting faster, we had to take the events to a place that was intrinsically safe, hence Wakefield Park. This venue has encouraged us to go to the extreme – perhaps too far. Over the years I have spoken with or heard talk of guys liking the minor events but aren’t interested in the sprints, ladies or partners getting bored and finding no real interest in attending anymore. Previously there was only a hand full of guys there without their partners, now it would be 30%or more. This is also reflected in the amount of ladies driving in the current format. It is no longer an annual social event, apart from the dinners.

I’m not saying let’s go back to the old days, but let us at least learn from them.

I basically agree with Wazza’s thoughts in backing off from the track and introducing events/activities that all can join in, a good mix of track and off track events. Reducing the track days would certainly help in the budget. Yeh, yeh, I can hear the roar from the die-hard racers, but anyone who wants lots of circuit work can always fulfil their need at other dedicated track days. To get the entrants in to cover costs, we need to have an event that is attractive to all demographics, not just one. Goulburn has a good district road network and local towns, that would prevent repetitiveness in say poker runs or mystery drives etc.

I also see where Wazza is going with sub leasing the track on Sunday, but I doubt the track managers would go for that. I know any astute business mind wouldn’t, particularly when the track is already in high demand. The October long weekend Monday is not a holiday for all states, so would it hurt if we moved it to late Oct or early Nov? Weather would most certainly be better and more stable. I also heard over the course of the weekend, that the track management is receiving pressure and offers from others for our weekend, we could us this to negotiate a surrender for another favourable time slot.

The idea of joining in on their Lilac festival may not wash with a lot of the town folk. They are already invaded by race cars and other car clubs most of the year and while we think we’re special, they may not. We also may not wish to be tied to their time frames for having the cars immobilised, restricting our program for the day.

The event is a club event, if we keep the current format and invite others, we just become race promoters. Nothing wrong with that, however that would need to be a separate event and handsomely profitable for the club.
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Old 10-13-2016, 04:56 PM
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Good post Dave. Its good to hear what used to happen and what did/didn't work. I reckon nationally there's probably only really say maybe max 10 cars that are dedicated track cars that attend regularly (7 from QLD). Its probably fair to say that those cars would drop out of the weekend if the track time was reduced BUT that number would be easily made up of by new people who want more of a social event cruise type event. Whether QLD would get 7 + alternative people to drive their cars down there is a question maybe moreso for Wazza as he'd be more aware of Qld Club people looking for something different from the Nats.

Keep the ideas coming.
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Old 10-13-2016, 06:06 PM
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I hope that whatever happens, the Nationals stays as it is.

Although it is highly likely I wont compete again (Main reason for me is distance/cost, not cost of entry, but cost to attend, fuel, accommodation etc. For me to attend it is 2 weeks away from home and work).
I would most likely attend as a spectator again (but I will admit I find it frustrating watching and not competing), with any luck when we move, I will attend as it is only a 2 day drive each way.
I think the Friday should be more like an open practice (same as Friday at Shelbyfest).

I can honestly admit the few times I have attended has always been a great fun weekend with many laughs along the way.

Would it be worth opening up to non Cobra Club entries?
Maybe get the word out amongst car clubs, Facebook social media etc to simply get more competitors?
I am sure there are plenty of Cobra's out there whose owners may not be a member of a specific Cobra car club?
Exactly ditto for me.
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Old 10-14-2016, 03:28 AM
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Yes Matt, I'm sure we would lose those race cars and any unregistered cars that may occasionaly attend. With the cost and time away from work/business, anyone coming long distances will want value, and for those cars it means track work as they obviously can't participate in any road events - in the cobra at least. As you said though, it may be more than made up for by others in favour of a variety of activities.

Maybe that now the state clubs offer so much variety, people don't feel the need to travel interstate for an event.
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Old 10-14-2016, 10:42 PM
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As a first timer to Nationals, I thoroughly enjoyed myself and liked the format.

That being said, I have to admit feeling a little 'selfish' giving up a long weekend (NSW) with the wife and kids to "go racing" - the concept of standing around watching me watching cars rip around a track has zero appeal to them. Furthermore, I am aware of at least two other owners who don't attend for the simple reason they don't want to put their car on a track (I suspect they may feel embarrassed by this and therefore simply avoid the event altogether)

If the goal is to increase participation / attendance, then surely the action is to create events that are more inclusive and engaging to a wider audience.

With this objective in mind, I would support other comments in this thread recommending limiting track activity to two days (subject to WP allowing a sublease) and/or an itinerary that provides alternative activities for those that don't want to participate in competition events. Those not participating in track events should have access to lower entry fees, albeit there may be an element of cross-subsidising if we're not able to release one of the track days to another club?

Non track events to attract a wider audience may include;

1. A charity drive to raise money for a particular charity (as a White Ribbon ambassador I'm happy to recommend this as an opportunity to raise awareness about preventing violence against women)....This gives the event a greater purpose.

2. A "Ladies Day"......Men chauffeuring their ladies on a wine tour (2 or 3 local wineries) to say thankyou for putting up with us and the love affair we have with our Cobras!

3. An orienteering race (all at street legal speeds of course) where each entrant is given a list of clues to follow to arrive at a secret location for a picnic/lunch

4. A convoy to Canberra to visit National museum of Australia, National gallery of Australia, Questacon, Australian war memorial or Parliament House (maybe send a message to parliament about icv' while we're there!)

I'm sure others have many more suggestions, but hopefully this illustrates the concept of attracting "others"

With regard to on track events, I personally could take or leave the slalom and drag events, but the super sprint laps are as close to heaven as I get.....more of this would be fine by me :-)

On a separate, but related note, I was learning a lot while listening to everyone talking about tyres and various performance parts.....I can't help think there are additional sponsorship opportunities for other/additional suppliers. And while I'm at it, a big shout out to the guys at Superformance, Absolute Pace, Stryker and others for supporting this event!

Kim, well done on a mighty effort thus far......As a NSW member, I understand I need to pull my finger out and lend a hand going forward, all in the hope we can get the word out and attract many more people to next year's event.

Cheers,
James
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Old 10-16-2016, 03:07 AM
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I for one could guarantee my wife Josie would be keen on a wine tour!!!
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Old 10-16-2016, 06:58 AM
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In my honest opinion, and ive only been twice but follow what happens each year here on CC
I think it has become too race orientated for the hard core racers with who has the quickest lap times etc, all good for those guys, but it has put off a lot of other guys who might feel intimidated by the pressure to perform, and risk their pride and joy, because THATS what its all about and not much else,
For me like Boxhead its 2 weeks out of my life and too far away and costly to attend from NQ.
When i first attended i think they had 110 entries, the last time about 3 years ago it was about 95, and this time was it about 55.
Look no further as to why the numbers are droping.
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Old 10-16-2016, 01:32 PM
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Tomcat, (i took the racing part out of your name..)

I have only been twice to the Nationals, 2015 and 2016.

My son and I had never raced before going and we love it!

We do not feel intimidated by the "hard core racers" and in my opinion no one should. There is absolutely no reason why anyone would feel pressure to perform, you go at your own pace.(see what i did there Warren..) If racing is absolutely (n.b warren) not your thing, then the hillclimb, slalom and drag runs/ straight line sprint might be your thing.


We too have to drive a round trip of about 3000 kms and that week long drive is also a great part of the trip with the Qld club in convoy.

I don't believe that is the reason why numbers are dropping.

Mick
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:12 PM
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When i first attended i think they had 110 entries, the last time about 3 years ago it was about 95, and this time was it about 55.
Look no further as to why the numbers are droping.
Hey Tom, if in that time the numbers have halved but the overall format, time frame, venue essentially hasn't changed what makes you think its the "racing" that is seeing the decrease? If the format when you attended was the same and attracted 110 entrants why wasn't the racing format a turn off for those entrants then?

Not picking a fight, I'm encouraging your views and am interested as to your perspective on this?
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Old 10-16-2016, 07:19 PM
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Heres an idea. Rather than speculate, lets email all the entries from the last 5 years that didnt attend this year and find out why. Just a quick 2 question survey:

1) Why did you not attend?
2) What would make you more likely to attend in future?

I could whip something up in google forms in about 2 minutes....
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:37 PM
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Hey Tom, if in that time the numbers have halved but the overall format, time frame, venue essentially hasn't changed what makes you think its the "racing" that is seeing the decrease? If the format when you attended was the same and attracted 110 entrants why wasn't the racing format a turn off for those entrants then?

Not picking a fight, I'm encouraging your views and am interested as to your perspective on this?
Hey Spooky,
Just thinking out loud, and not speaking for anyone...

Maybe because in that time, lap times have dropped significantly?
...and there seems to be a bit of focus in various forums on this. The unintended consequence being people assume that it is a race meet of sorts?

For mine, I'm glad it is a track event. Where else could I press the accelerator down on my car and not have it impounded?

I'm a cheap-sh!t and worry that I would break or bin my pride and joy. So I really like the fact that one can self regulate their speed. The fact the organises seem compassionate towards those at various levels and experience is great, and should also be promoted and celebrated.


A couple ideas... Feel free to shoot them down if you don't think they can work or add value

Is there a formal initiation process for newbies?
IE: By that I mean an organised buddy system where an experienced driver "tutors" newbies?

Or further could there be more focus by clubs on "driver training" leading up to the event. This could double as a promotional event for Nationals. Either through the clubs, or even via a third party like John Bowe driver training or driving dynamics or others. Perhaps even approach them for sponsoring the event, but instead of these cash poor companies shelling out money, they offer some time and expertise, if not on the day, then in the lead up with either ongoing discounted education for members, further discounts for attendees? Or a cobra day group discount leading up to the event? It might help to be a softly softly approach to getting people comfortable with being on the track... (Anyway, just some thoughts parallel for how we integrate newbies and transition them into cycling when they are mindful of mixing it with traffic on the road).


PS: Thanks for all that you guys do to keep this thing going!
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Old 10-16-2016, 11:35 PM
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Dimi, I certainly like the idea of some driver training/buddy type stuff. If people come away from the event feeling as though they have learnt to drive better as a result that has too be a good thing. I know after my first nats I said I would never try and expose the cars limits on the street as I learnt on the track just how easy it was to have a lose (but thankfully in a controlled environment.)

As to the event overall getting significantly faster...... The more seasoned guys would be able to share on this than I. There is no doubt some of the racers like Madison and LJ etc who all have a motorsport background interest are lapping very fast in street driven cars. Mads, LJ and Kim all went around between 1.05 - 1.07s. I think Ash and Chunky probably have done 1.05s in there cobra? But I'd suggest the rest of the every day driver field aren't too far away from where they were in 2009. The track resurfacing has made overall for better times I must admit. But are these guys going quick a deterrent for those who aren't???

I do think the race car class has got A LOT faster. Scotty H in 09 did a 1.12. Geoff T did a 1.06 in 2012 and I think Paul from Vic did a 1.02 on old slicks in 2014. I think Gary Walther may have done a 1.02 back in 2006? Those cars are getting very fast but are all designed and built to do so. I like seeing these BIG BANGERS running around as much as seeing the shiny ones. For street class cars as a guide Pete H (who has won KK) did a 1.14 in 2009 and then a 1.12 in 2012. But from a competitive perspective I think LJ, Pete, Mads, Kim etc etc would all be in 5l class. All those guys would be quick in a Prius! You could move to the controlled tyre class if you felt you couldn't compete for KK in the open 5L category I guess if chasing the KK was your thing.

The biggest sole gain in lap times bang for buck is tyres and I think many now are buying their new boots pre-event to get their lap times down. I can only think of Scotty H doing that back in the day but now many looking to get a personal edge are doing it.

Back in the early to mid 2000's most drove their cars from Qld and now most trailer them. If someone had of said to me that in 2017 guys would have Winnebago's and 5th wheel trailers etc for travelling around in I'd have laughed my a$$ off and yet next year we will have 4 x 5th wheel trailers and a Winnebago at the first round of the A series. Its evolution I guess but shouldn't be a deterrent for those who want to pack a duffle bag and a shifting spanner and load it into their cars boot and drive their car to the Nats. Certainly there's more than enough help and parts in those 5th wheel trailers to help everyone out if needed. That's what I love about the Nats the most people helping people.

At the end of the day some come to the Nats to chase the title, some come for the social activities, some come for the drive to get away from work and family, some come to beat last years times and some come to catch up with everyone they had a laugh with the year before or combinations of all of the above.

Its no easy task for the NSW committee to put the show together as well as satisfy what everyone wants and/or thinks is needed. I hope though that with all the great suggestions made on this topic they may see some ideas worthy of persuing.

Maybe the Qld, Vic, SA, ACT, WA etc clubs should put together their own state based Nats committees to help with the gee up on numbers for the annual event???

(Kim, as you know Im happy to help wherever possible doing whatever is required from a QLD perspective so please keep me in the loop if I can be of assistance.)

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