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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2016, 10:50 PM
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Default Grass is Greener

Sounds all so familiar, the Nationals is constantly evolving and healthy discussion will always ensure its survival.

It has come full circle, when I was involved the numbers were always well over the 100 entrant mark and that created many of its own issues, comments like militant or clinical were used to describe these events. The overwhelming demand from the community to "race" literally filled the program to a bursting point trying to accommodate everyone, program running times and down times were strictly monitored.

While we were satisfying the immediate need of the community there was a larger part that was being left behind, the show and shine with all of those issues became a popularity contest and was not given the pride of place it once had.

As a committee this was recognized and programs were put in place to offer alternatives to racing, cruises, selective event entry, pit area games etc etc. However it was never really supported and if I may be blunt the NON racers almost actively boycotted the event.....and to really throw stones as the focus was on how fast you can go and not how good you looked meant some of the Roosters found there was no room on the perch for them.

While the racing was well supported it was in my opinion rotting from the inside. Unfortunately we have had a few track incidents that saw many cars damaged and thankfully on minor injuries. This I feel was a major turning point for the Nationals. To be straight to the point the times got lower the risks were growing and the safety was ridiculously inadequate. It was a dangerous situation with a group of very good talented racers pushed the boundaries on performance like never before. novices like my self were pushed to way beyond skill levels to try to compete, all being swept up in this fierce competition.

Eventually, like myself one day you just say to your self what the **** am I doing and the brakes come on and the racing is over. I feel this is one of the real factors affecting numbers.

Not to put anyone down or to be critical, as someone has mentioned you always need to remember the people spending the time preparing and organizing the Nationals are Volunteers and to find this time is not easy. In the time I was president to get the Nations supported like they were was not a chance thing, many people worked very hard for a very long time creating a product that would make people want to come and they did. In hindsight it was not sustainable and burnt me and most of the committee out in a couple of years, but its what is needed. I am not saying more effort needs to be put in the opposite actually what can be done with a reasonable amount of work is the real question.


I suppose i haven't offered any real suggestions maybe thrown a few stones, however its just crazy while I was President we discussed cutting off entrant numbers to something more manageable and fun, and now you are working on ways to go back to that.

Just my thoughts......really miss the nationals

Phil
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2016, 11:29 PM
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Hey Phil I reckon I waZ robbed for best engine bay in 06.... Can you tell me who the judges were if its not too late to register a formal protest!

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Old 10-17-2016, 06:46 PM
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Just to give you some comparison... and this isnt an apples and oranges comparison to what us Cobra guys are doing just some more food for thought...
The Lotus Marque Nationals event is Biannual. And is shared amongst the states as a host.

Next year is in Vic at Winton over a Sat, Sun & Monday long weekend. Lots of dinners, tours and driving. h
ttp://www.lotus2017.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid= 435

Costs are
DRIVE ($325)
SPRINT ($345)
RACE ($385) Yep they have 3 door to door races with race and street cars all mixed in (reverse grid too lol) on the Sunday as well as timed sprints. (Im a member and I know 1/2 the cars don't have a cage but they run under AASA not CAMS)

Lotus-Only Track Day, 24 APRIL 2017 - Simply Sports Cars

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Old 10-17-2016, 09:50 PM
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Well said Phil,
Like you mentioned, it has become a total race fest with lap times lowered each year, pressure to compete and the danger of crashes, [ Gavs write off last year would not of helped ] and i think that might have put off some people who attended years ago,
For those who have 100 octane in their veins, they will always be there and good on them but not everyone wants to join that club.
Lets face it the Nationals is about racing and lap times and not much else and people just move on.
Im not argueing with anyone, thats my opinion having seen it from back then untill now, take it or leave it.
Good luck with any changes and we will see if the numbers increase next year.
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:42 PM
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I prefer to call it 'stunt driving' Tommy
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Old 10-17-2016, 11:55 PM
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Hey Phil I reckon I waZ robbed for best engine bay in 06.... Can you tell me who the judges were if its not too late to register a formal protest!

It was the gold wheels mate. The judges just couldn't get past them gold wheels especially with your cam pulleys reminding them.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:04 AM
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Was bloody Tenrocca head judge that year?
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:45 AM
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In all honesty though Spook, I reckon that was about the best looking Toyota V8 I've ever seen.

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Old 10-18-2016, 07:38 AM
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I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 750hp View Post
I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.
Thats why i do the Australia classic rally in cairns, over 600 ks of rallying over 2 days in beautifull countryside from Innisfail to Port Douglas and the Atherton Tableland, time trials, navigation and observation and the chance to run up and down the four major mountain passes, the Palmerston, the Gillies, Kuranda, and the Rex and full noise on some of the back roads, great comraderie, lunch beside waterfalls, vineyards, coffee plantations and alacarte dinners at night all included, a really well run event and obviously within a days drive for me, last year some entrants drove their cars up from Sydney and Melbourne to attend and make a holliday of it, great for husband and wife teams and the women love it. For me personally it beats standing around a freezing cold racetrack for 3 days trying to lower my times by a tenth, but to each his own, and i wont rule out attending the nationals again.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:33 PM
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I have no right to comment on the way the Nationals are run because I haven't been to one since West Wyalong. It's always been very easy to say that work is busy at that time of year, but the incentive hasn't ever been there for me to drive down to a track event.

I love that Cobras continue to have a presence on race tracks around the country, because that's such a big part of the reason for the original Cobra's existence. It's not for me though. I don't have the skill, nor the inclination to spend hours tweaking, maintaining and repairing the car before, during and after a race meeting. I like it to make the right noises, but out on the open road.

Taking the focus away from racing for a moment, the type of event that I would take my annual holidays to attend would be something like many other clubs do; to put the focus back on the drive and encourage as many club members to meet at a different location around the country each year.

Imagine all states arranging to drive to Noosa when the weather is right, then to meet the next year in the Barossa Valley or even Margaret River. Then Tenterfield, Grampians, Toowoomba, Kangaroo Island (no idea what the Ferry costs...), Alice Springs. Anyway you get the idea.

The home state could treat it the same way as any of you who have had an international visitor stay over, and plan different events that involve numerous scenic drives, food, drinks, days for passengers to go on day trips away from the Cobras if they wish.

For me, the drive to a destination is actually the biggest part of my Cobra experience, regardless of where I end up. A racing focused weekend means that the majority of entrants will tow to the event, and with suspension settings adjusted, sticky tyres fitted and the possibility of breakages, it makes sense.

Just my thought, but for a truly national event with year on year variety and no risk of financial loss for any of the clubs, I'd love to put track hire fees towards fuel and sunscreen and go and see some of this amazing country in our Cobras.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:37 PM
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I wonder if the 50 odd entries that participated in the Nats this year would swap the track event experience for a total non track touring event like Craig and Tom suggest?


The Nats has in the past offered touring packages for those not wanting to do track stuff but still enjoy the dinners, S&S and touring around Canberra wineries etc etc and my understanding is that it was really poorly attended. So while the touring option in years passed has been offered, its not been embraced which may suggest those people who want to just tour don't turn up to support the part of the Nationals program that's been created for them??? Dunno.

Its no secret I love the roundy roundy of WP and Im all for keeping it there. But I love seeing more people attend whether it be touring or track as it just creates a much better vibe and in turn the enthusiasm grows. Its not to say I couldn't personally do a touring type event with my other car but I wouldn't as I enjoy the track too much and if it went that way I would invest my time and dollars into other things. For me its about a $5k holiday for me only once I include food, fuel, tyres etc etc. I can take my entire family to Bali for 2 weeks for that and have change left over. And for us Dads Cobras are 2 seaters so anyone with tinlids are eliminated. So even if I wanted to tour I couldn't/wouldn't.

Whatever direction is taken its not going to totally please everyone. The trick is to try and get the balance right and encourage attendance from both sides of the fence to make for a great annual event but it will require both sides of the touring/track ledger to support it.

Last edited by spookypt; 10-18-2016 at 08:40 PM..
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:15 PM
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I wonder if the 50 odd entries that participated in the Nats this year would swap the track event experience for a total non track touring event like Craig and Tom suggest?


The Nats has in the past offered touring packages for those not wanting to do track stuff but still enjoy the dinners, S&S and touring around Canberra wineries etc etc and my understanding is that it was really poorly attended. So while the touring option in years passed has been offered, its not been embraced which may suggest those people who want to just tour don't turn up to support the part of the Nationals program that's been created for them??? Dunno.

Its no secret I love the roundy roundy of WP and Im all for keeping it there. But I love seeing more people attend whether it be touring or track as it just creates a much better vibe and in turn the enthusiasm grows. Its not to say I couldn't personally do a touring type event with my other car but I wouldn't as I enjoy the track too much and if it went that way I would invest my time and dollars into other things. For me its about a $5k holiday for me only once I include food, fuel, tyres etc etc. I can take my entire family to Bali for 2 weeks for that and have change left over. And for us Dads Cobras are 2 seaters so anyone with tinlids are eliminated. So even if I wanted to tour I couldn't/wouldn't.

Whatever direction is taken its not going to totally please everyone. The trick is to try and get the balance right and encourage attendance from both sides of the fence to make for a great annual event but it will require both sides of the touring/track ledger to support it.
Of course they wont, like you, most of them are hard core racers and live for the nationals to get away from their wives for a week for a bit of male bonding, they are not interested in anything else except WP and thats OK, im not suggesting anything for the nationals im just saying what i find more appealing for me and no doubt the other 50 odd entrants that used to attend and have moved on, im with 750, you have made the nationals what it is today stop trying to over analyse it and live with what you got.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:28 PM
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The Nationals is a pretty unique event on the calendar in that is one of the few opportunities for most of us to test out our cars and skills on a track. The more social aspect to car ownership already exists through various events (eg. Surf to Summit Cooma which is well attended by Cobra folk).

I would hate to see the nats become a drive through the Adelaide hills stopping for Chardonnay and Cucumber and Watercress sandwiches.

The other thing a few havent noticed the nats were a lot less competitive this year. Class 3 used to be the class for the big boys with the top 5-6 all under 1:09 (just guessing without looking back). Not anymore. Other classes have been introduced over the last few years (control tyre and 15") to accomodate those that didnt want to go the full serious racer but still have a bit of fun. The times to be competitive in these classes are really reasonable.

If you don't enter because you don't think you'll bring home a $2 plastic trophy you have bigger problems than your lap times. You can still go out and have a ball without being at the pointy end.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:39 PM
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I've "analysed" Tomcat's position and he's not coming. Moving on.....
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:42 PM
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Tenrocca I just saw this as you mentioned..

SURF TO SUMMIT

I think some of the Qld guys do this but its not afaik promoted as a Cobra event up here. Perhaps it could be a good offering for QLD guys to come down and join in. I think Wazza, Paul G and Ron F do it but I think its more a private friend thing than an actual organsied QLD CCC event. That right Wazzazza?
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:07 PM
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Default If it aint broke dont fix it.

That is sort of what I was saying, the event is a racers weekend and there is nothing wrong with that and if 50 is the number then its all good to go.

Trying make it more broad in its appeal has been done and lost.

I am not sure there is that need anymore for that interstate connection that was a big part of the nationals 10 years ago, people are more connected by other means these days.

Possibly at 50 entrants the finances all work, its still a strong number and things would run so smooth plenty of track time.

Phil
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:19 PM
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Phil, the problem is 50's not enough with the current running costs.

As quoted by Wazza..

"Currently 50? entrants paying $550 ? =$27,500 with a track costing $40,000 = behind by $12,500."

Thus the reason for the topic as the current 50 entrants for the 3 days track hire falls well short. Do we either increase attendance by offering more over the 3 days or do we decrease track time to 2 days and possibly lose some of the existing numbers??

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Old 10-18-2016, 10:21 PM
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Hey Spooky,
As you know ive got one of the fastest street regd cobras in the country, and its only NA, no bolt ons, not that great around a tight track, but thats not what it was built for, but faster in a straight line than anything that has showed up in all classes at the nationals in the last couple of years, and that does not entice me to come down and take a trophy home.
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Old 10-18-2016, 10:42 PM
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Hey Spooky,
As you know ive got one of the fastest street regd cobras in the country, and its only NA, no bolt ons, not that great around a tight track, but thats not what it was built for, but faster in a straight line than anything that has showed up in all classes at the nationals in the last couple of years, and that does not entice me to come down and take a trophy home.
OK.

Most of my topics in general are trying to stimulate, create and encourage people to enjoy their cars with others that enjoy their cars. Not selective or bias just trying to keep a good thing going. I don't care how fast, how shiny, how much, what brand, what motor, what colour yadda yadda. I just enjoy like minded people doing like minded things and I really hold my hat to those who actually put their hand up and do/organise things for the benefit of others to enjoy. If the Nats isnt for you that's cool but for those that want to be involved in this event, Im hoping that by talking about it and hearing everyone's thoughts and ideas that we can make it sustainable and maybe even grow it a bit.

Its ok if its not for you, but please don't discourage others from trying to generate feedback to create an even better event which is all I am trying to do with this topic. I hate driving out the WP gates thinking the NSW Club has had to absorb another net loss for the benefit of me to go round WP a few times and if, by chatting on the forum gather some ideas for Kim and Co that are worthy of consideration then I at least know I have done more than some.

Last edited by spookypt; 10-19-2016 at 01:11 AM..
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