Rode in OZVENOM's car today....

[750hp]

After OZVENOM took me for a ride in his new "gelcoat black with racing stripes" Cobra, I have a new respect for the Lexus 4.0L quad cam, 32 valve V8s! Scott's car feels like it just wants to rev and rev. In stock form, it makes pretty good low rpm torque and the overall performance is great - kinda makes the Ford V8s look a bit silly in comparison

Considering the alum block, forged crank/rods/pistons, 6 bolt mains with a girdle, etc etc -- for around $1300- ($700-USD) these motors are the absolute undisputed bargain motor for a Cobra. No wonder he keeps getting orders for conversions into all sorts of cars.

The Cobra's the important one though - now I'm wondering if I should have had Scott build me a 700 or 800hp twin turbo Lexus motor, rather than the motor I currently own. I probably would have been about $20,000- better off.....

[Excaliber]

Whats the H.P. on the stock motor? 4.0 sure sounds small. 'Course I always thought the "little" Buick V6 was no big deal, until I saw some numbers on that bad boy! 1000 H.P. is possible with the Buick, with a radicall build of course. 500 horse or so is "realistic".

What kind of realistic potential does the Lexus have I wonder? And what would be the max potential?

Ernie

[Specialk]

Craig,

Did he have the AWD setup installed and working? Is he using the Motec? Once he gets the car completely finished and sorted, I think he will rule the Run and Gun!

[BT SNAKE]

Craig, that's great news about Scotty's Cobra. I can't wait to see
some photos. So why didn't you take your camera..
Man, I thought I was a fast builder but Scotty is way ahead of
my abilities.

Hersh

[750hp]

Ernie - these motors are rated at 300hp. With the rev limiter removed, they are apparently good for 8000rpm STOCK!!!!! 4.0L is small. When Scott's finished with his combination, high rpm + two turbos will more than prove a replacement for displacement...
The Japanese are using these factory alloy blocks in drag racing applications up to 1500hp. Not bad considering my big dollar FRPP/SVO block isn't rated anywhere near that!
Realistic potential in a genuine street car? With an aftermarket ECU, and some turbos, better injectors etc. 800hp Total cost including ECU, turbos - probably under $7000USD. Scott actually does the turbo conversions on these motors, so he'll know exactly what they cost.

Kris - No! RWD and naturally aspirated with the stock ECU. He bought that Motec for the right price!!! Now that the car is registered, I think we might see some radical mods underway soon. I've seen all the parts required to make this happen, and I really hope he can get it done soon. Ummm, well soon after he finishes my car!!!

Hersh - one week, the car looked like nothing. The next week he's driving it around with registration plates attached! He doesn't mess around when he gets his head down. I don't own a digital camera, but we'll get some shots over to you soon. He's put a nice quiet "transport department friendly" exhaust system on it for the time being. It certainly came in handy as he hit 6500rpm in third gear at full throttle just as a policeman came into view standing on the side of the road. I don't think he heard us coming, just like I don't think he saw where we went!!!!!

[Brian Dinsmore]

Okay, now why did you have to bring this up? ..............................
.................................................. .................................................. ...
............................................. My daily driver is a 94 Lexus SC400.
and now I'm looking at it as a donor car. Does this maddness ever stop???????????????? HELP!

Brian

[Dwight]

CRAIG, GET A NIKON COOLPIX 2500 FOR $279 US. WAL MART, BEST BUY, AND DISCOUNT STORES ALL CARRY IT. GREAT LITTLE CAMERA FOR THE MONEY. YOU CAN BUY IT ON THE NET ALSO. SAME PRICE.

[Mike Braddock]

Craig (or Scott ),

What's Scott using for a tranny? Stock auto or Supra 5 speed or ??? How much work does it look like it will take to adapt the 1UZ- FE/GE to the Nissan transfer case? I said it before, and I'll repeat it again : you guys are having WAY too much fun down there! I hear those engines weigh in at a svelte 175 kilos--just under the GenIII. Should make for a wonderfully balanced car in N/A form! Is he going to drop the compression from 10:1 before installing the turbos? Is he running the older FE heads or the hi-po GEs?

Mike

[750hp]

Brian - Scott gets "half-cuts" from Jap wreckers. There's a goldmine of parts available when buying in this format - complete wiring loom, computer, trans, electric motors, sensors, etc, etc. The most common car seems to be the Jap-Spec Toyota Crown. A 94 Lexus gets along pretty well, all things considered. Imagine how it would feel if it only weighed 2200lb!!!!

Dwight - I looked around for a good value camera when I went to the Fling last year. I should have asked the question before I flew in, rather than just looking at dodgy electronics stores throughout the country. I just had a look at www.dpreview.com , and the 2500 looks like an interesting option. Does that fliptop lens work OK?

Mike - At the moment he's using a Tremec, but there's a Nissan trans waiting for the AWD mods. I'll let Scott tell you about the trans conversion, but what I do know is that he never opens the engines. All standard internals - just a new cam belt and maybe some manifold mods for bigger throttle bodies. The beauty of these motors is that if you ever had a major engine failure, another complete engine can be sourced for less than what a good set of custom JE pistons cost for a Ford V8!!! Conservative boost, a capable fuel system, quality intercooler and a sophisticated engine management system are probably the key ingredients to making a 10:1 motor live a long and happy life as a turbo motor.

[jrussell]

Craig,
I can't imagine what the possibilities are for that car OZ has apparently built! Am I correct in assuming the hood picture in another thread was of your car and the other pictures were of the car you rode in? Geez, I really can't imagine what the 60 foot times would be for a AWD Cobra that could hook 800 hp to the ground! OZ just might OWN the GUN at Run N Gun!
I can't wait for the follow up and pictures!
John Russell

[OZVENOM]

Hi guys sorry i dont post as often as i should too busy building cobras craigs first then mine lol.
to fit the nissan awd gearbox needs a lot changes to the chassis unfortunatly means taking the gas axe to it , i knew i shouldnt have got it powder coated .

to mate the box to the lexus i will use an adaptor plate which bolts to the motor with countersunk bolts . other issues include moving shockies and making them into a bell crank set up ,mounting the front diff on the chassis getting drive shafts machined up to the right lenths to stop torque steer which will be fun to handle .hydralic controls for the centre clutch , and the list goes on and on . the good thing is your interest keeps me motivated thanks all of you for showing interest in something out of left field which hope fully is cutting edge in cobras.

this pic is of my first customer build which has won the 2 last national cobra concouces.

[Brian Dinsmore]

Oz,
What do you believe the 4.0 engine weights?
Do you have any dimensions like width , height, depth etc.
How crazy $ would be shipping from down under?
Am I going insane............?

Thanks!
Brian

[Bathrone]

Craig dont kick yourself up about it mate.

Your motor, is just plane nuts and its going to be so quick!

Look, I think the Lexus 8 has merit, but face it, its a small displacement 8. There is no substitute for cubic inches. Torque only comes from displacement, and as an added thing from forced induction. You cant add torque any other way. And it is torque that accelerates a vehicle. Without torque, nothing will happen but alot of talk! If you know what I mean

Within my own circle of thinking, I only see a Lexus 8 with forced induction being worthwhile. Then you have the issues to do with doing an properly engineered forced induction motor and fitting it all within a cobra body.

Mate, two ball bearing performance turbos could quite easily exceed 10 grand alone. Then you have a custom intercooler. Lots of custom piping. Your talking about extensive programmable computer management of the engine. Just cos a second hand Lexus motor cost 1.5 grand, thats far from the end of the costs.

To blueprint the Lexus and give it a freshen up ready for major turbos, fit the turbos, fit the intercooler, run a Motec on it and all the rest I would be very very suprised to see any change from $AUS20k-25k.

And after all that, dyno the engine, you wont see a flat torque curve. Im not saying it wont be quick, it certainly will be, but its not just going to be a torque monster at 1000rpm.

Cheers

[OZVENOM]

Brian if you are really interested the lexus is aprox 650 x 650 x 650. its basicly a cube though it has hemi style plugs and the exhausts are angled downwards at 45 deg with the starter located inthe valley you have heaps of room for exhausts.


if i spend more than $8k on my turbos ,engine ,intercooler and motec i will be very suprised so far i have spent $2800 on a m48 pro $600 on 2 rb25 ball bearing turbos $ 1000 on lexus v8 of which i sold the tranny for $450 the air con and steer pumps for $400 and the alternator for $150 so the engine owes me nothing . intercooler cost $0 from a damaged truck needs some work but still i can aford to spend a bit of time on it. so far thats $3400 so i should be under buget .
sorry craig but with these turbos it will only
make 600 hp and 500 +Ft/lbs of torque at 2500 rpm with reline at 8000 rpm . should be lots of fun to drive how does the torque stack up against a big block???
OH what a feeling twin turbo toyota

[Mike Braddock]

OZ,

Where did you happen across such a great deal on that M48 ? Hehe! Let's see...550-600hp for less than $4k? I'd say you shoud be under budget, too

Bathrone,

Where are your numbers coming from? Two BB turbos for $10k? Ouch! Maybe if you're buying used takoff VATN units off late '80's Indycar engines . The rest is mostly fabrication. Some people can do it and others can't. It's the timeless time vs money scenario. Also, why would you want a torque monster at 1000 rpm in such a light car? You stated that "without torque, nothing will happen but a lot of talk!". Actually, with abundant torque comes a lot of wheelspin and we all know if you're spinnin' you ain't winnin' . That's why Brian Dinsmore is able to run 10.8's with his mild 289 powered FFR when a lot of guys with close to 400 cubic inches can't get enough traction to get into the mid 11's. You can only use a certain amount of torque on a RWD steet tired car--anything beyond that is just bragging rights.

And to get that kind of hp out of those engines doesn't require any freshening up or blueprinting--that's why you have to appreciate Toyota engineering!

Mike

[Bathrone]

Hi Mike ,

Umm, here's some turbo prices mate, keeping in mind youd need two for a twin turbo setup;

XTR Dual Ceramic Ball Bearing Turbochargers:
T3 Performance Turbo $3485.00
T3/4 Performance Turbo $3860.00
TO4B Performance Turbo $3860.00
TO4E Performance Turbo $3860.00
60-1 Performance Turbo $3860.00
T-66 Performance Turbo $3860.00
T-70 Performance Turbo $4850.00
T-72 Performance Turbo $4850.00
T-76 Performance Turbo $5150.00

(Includes 2) GTR Turbo PE1590R Upgrade Turbos 450ps $10500.00

HKS Ball Bearing Turbochargers:-
GT2510 $4260.00
GT2530 $4500.00
GT2535 $4790.00
GT2540 $4790.00
GT2540R $5035.00
GT2835 $5035.00
GT2835R $5275.00
GT3037 $5520.00
GT3037S $5880.00
GT3040 $5275.00

These are all Australian dollar prices from GCG Turbochargers at 117 Eldridge Road Condell Park NSW.

As for VATN turbos, AFAIK Saab had them but I am not aware of a properly sized turbine for performance use that has VATN. I am aware HKS is researching them for future products.

Do you know how much a custom intercooler costs? Im not talking Mike about bodged up ones, Im talking about how much properly engineered intercoolers cost. Sure there are some people who can MIG weld who think they are qualified to design an intercooler, but overall a properly engineered cooler with high efficiency and little pressure drop will be around $AUS1500-$AUS2000 for an air to air unit, and if the application requires a water to air unit it will be more.

Silicon hoses arent cheap either, the proper high pressure ones.

Youll also need two external wastegates, which is each going to cost again from GCG in Sydney in Australian dollars ;

Xtreme Turbo Racing 62mm Wastegate Price : $1350.00
HKS Wastegates 35mm-55mm
35mm Standard Wastegate Price : $1520.00
45mm Standard Wastegate Price : $2050.00
55mm Standard Wastegate Price : $2050.00
Pro Gate 45mm Wastegate $750.00
Garrett 42mm Wastegate Price : $1250.00

Ontop of this add the cost for a programmable ECM and the cost to tune it. This is easily $AUS3-$AUS5 for a decent ECU and a proper tune.

Also keep in mind this engine was not prepared for forced induction. If you want to be serious about forced induction, your looking at metal head gaskets, new pistons, sodium filled exhaust valves, head studs etcetc.

Mike I do recognise Toyotas build quality, but its a mistake to think that a mass produced engine is ready for big time power. Tolerance stack up for example alone could be a problem in a high boost motor. At the very least I wouldnt be satisfied until I had new rings and bearings through the engine, and had inspected each and every part with precision measuring gear.

Mike / OzVenom for sure, I am interested in the idea of a Lexus motor and I think a forced induction Lexus would be a good package. I just think there is details to be worked out and costs to be considered.

Cheers

[Mike Braddock]

Bathrone,

My mistake, I forgot about the exhange rate . Here are some list prices from our side of the pond:

T3 $753.00
T3 - BALL BRG. $1,399.00

TO4B $748.00
TO4B (BIG SHAFT) $1,015.00
TO4B (BIG SHAFT) W/Q-TRIM $1,382.00
TO4B (BIG SHAFT) - BALL BRG. $1,482.00
TO4B (BIG SHAFT) W/Q-TRIM - BALL BRG. $1,795.00

T3/T4B HYBRID $856.00
T3/T4B HYBRID - BALL BRG. $1,489.
T3/T4E HYBRID $934.00
T3/T4E HYBRID - BALL BRG. $1,567.00

60-1 Hi-Fi 832.00
60-1 Hi-Fi (BIG SHAFT) $1,091.00
60-1 Hi-Fi (BIG SHAFT) - BALL BRG. $1,493.00

T-SERIES (Except T-76) $1,333.00
T-SERIES W/Q-TRIM (Except T-76) $1,690.00
T-SERIES - BALL BRG. (Except T-76) $1,993.
T-SERIES W/Q-TRIM - BALL BRG. (Except T-76) $2,349.00

GT25-48 $1665.50
GT25-56 $1711.63
GT25-60 $1478.48
GT25-63 $1515.55
GT25-70 $1459.55

ETC…

As for wastegates:

Turbonetics Deltagate 35mm (10101-5FF125) $238.00 (up to 300 hp)
Turbonetics Racegate 42mm (10307-5) $428.00 (up to 700 hp)


These are all American dollars from Turbonetics directly. So you could go with a nice new pair of T04BB’s for under $3k. And a very nice pair of Racegates for another grand. A Spearco intercooler core (air/air) runs about $600 and endtanks can be made for less than $100 in materials. So it’s all coming together nicely for a tidy sum. The Toyota 1UZ- FE/GE seems to be another well over-engineered marvel like Toyota’s 2JZ supra engine that can take 600 hp with no problem without opening up the motor. Just like their (okay, Yamaha’s ) 3S-GTE 4 cylinder turbocharged monster can take 400 hp again without opening up the bottom end or touching the head. I was just making the point that Toyota builds EXCELLENT engines compared to the US junk we have and no I wouldn’t have any problem making 700 or 800 hp on the STOCK 1UZ setup. With proper fuel and timing you don’t need different pistons, you don’t need sodium filled valves and you don’t need head studs and metal head gaskets.. That’s the beauty of Toyota’s design, engineering and manufacturing. You do need a good engine management system, though!

Mike

[lextreme]

Sorry for the cross post, but the topic should be very similar. I have been dreaming about getting a Factory Five Replica Cobra for a long time. However, my goal has not been altered. I have a 1990 LS400 and recently I did a Twin Turbo on it. Its producing 324.5 rwhp and 327 rwtq with 8 psi without an intercooler.

The 1UZ-FE is a great motor. Its cheap to obtain. I have brought two engines. One for $200 blown head gaskets and one for $400 complete with everything. One of these days i would like to juice up the long block with some forged internals. Meanwhile my Lexus is running great.

check out my website for further infomation. I also have a discussion forum specifically for the 1UZ-FE engine. www.lextreme.com or www.lextreme.com/forum The forum started two days ago. Please give me some feed back what you think.

Please feel free to post.

thanks

[ac andy]

Hi Oz, seems to me like a little bit of jealousy is creeping in here. The Lexus is not everyones cup of tea but my hat is definately off to you for what you are achieving. Huge piece of work and imagination. Top work.

Andy.

[Excaliber]

Torque makes accelleration? I don't know, you could make a strong case for h.p. doing it better. Torque just "feels better". Small cubes vs big cubes? The Buick V6 put that argument to rest a long time ago.

I'm not a V6 fan, but I won't bury my head in the sand, they ARE quicker than many small or big V8's.

This Lexus deal sounds awesome and no doubt a LOT of potential there. Man I hate when you "down under" folks come up with some cool new trick way to beat my beloved Ford V8's. Ha ha! Buick was embarrasing enough all ready.

Ernie