Front spring question

[Gbalko]

C5GTO, also forgot to ask if that is a 8 inch spring you installed.

[C5GTO]

Originally Posted by Gbalko

Hey C5GTO. You mentioned that you changed your lower control arms. QA1 is telling me that the 1/2 inch bolt that currently supports the bottom of the shock is strong enough to support a coil over system. What do you think?

Originally Posted by Gbalko

C5GTO, also forgot to ask if that is a 8 inch spring you installed.

While my lower control arm is tubular instead of press steel, it still uses a 1/2" bolt for the bottom of the shock. I'd suggest using a grade 8 bolt, but yes the same bolts have worked fine on mine for about 25 years now.

I didn't know if the 8" spring measurement you were asking about was free or compressed length, so I broke out the floor jack and took a bunch of measurements.

- spring compressed length = 7"
- spring free length = 8 3/4"
- shock compressed length = 14 1/2"
- shock free length = 16 1/2"

There's a 2 1/2" extension on the top of my shock so the actual shock length is what I gave above minus 2 1/2". I'm guessing the extension is a CR thing given the tall shock mount on the top. I'm guessing you might also need a shock extension unless the shocks you have match the measurements above. I don't recall when or where I got those extensions but I bet they are not optional on a CR.

The height adjuster on the shock is right about the middle of the threads and there's about 1 1/2" of threads above it. So an 8" spring would work but the adjuster could be getting close to the top of the threads. Again, I have Cararra shocks so the QA1 shocks maybe different.

I hope this info helps you out.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by C5GTO

While my lower control arm is tubular instead of press steel, it still uses a 1/2" bolt for the bottom of the shock. I'd suggest using a grade 8 bolt, but yes the same bolts have worked fine on mine for about 25 years now.

I didn't know if the 8" spring measurement you were asking about was free or compressed length, so I broke out the floor jack and took a bunch of measurements.

- spring compressed length = 7"
- spring free length = 8 3/4"
- shock compressed length = 14 1/2"
- shock free length = 16 1/2"

There's a 2 1/2" extension on the top of my shock so the actual shock length is what I gave above minus 2 1/2". I'm guessing the extension is a CR thing given the tall shock mount on the top. I'm guessing you might also need a shock extension unless the shocks you have match the measurements above. I don't recall when or where I got those extensions but I bet they are not optional on a CR.

The height adjuster on the shock is right about the middle of the threads and there's about 1 1/2" of threads above it. So an 8" spring would work but the adjuster could be getting close to the top of the threads. Again, I have Cararra shocks so the QA1 shocks maybe different.

I hope this info helps you out.

Using a top stud extension on a shorter shock / coilover would be an alternative to opening up the top hole, though I do have concerns about using a stud extension on a coilover due to the possibility of lateral loading over the increased length of what is essentially a 3/8" bolt vs 5/8" hardened steel shock shaft. That's probably a question for suspension engineers, or at least QA1 technical support. OTOH, the MII coilovers aren't a 'true' coilover (IMO), because even though there are collars on the shock body for the lower mount, the upper spring loads act on the MII upper spring mount / hat, leaving the shock's upper mount to handle normal shock absorber loads, plus some lateral forces as the spring acts on the lower mount.

I have no idea why CR decided on this extended upper mount approach, other than the ability to get greater travel through a longer shock body. My OEM MII front end uses the original upper mount and QA1 MS301 coilovers and I certainly don't have this problem - though it is a bit of a PITA to work on.

Restoring the upper mount to the original MII mounting configuration (or similar) is an option. The upper mount extension could be cut off and replaced with a plate that provides a replacement upper mount much closer to the spring hat. Whether that's done through welding or a bolt-on plate would be up to you. It needs to be strong enough to handle normal shock loads, not the weight of the vehicle - but location relative to the enlarged hole and the shock stud is important - you don't want it shifted and start inducing additional side loads beyond the original design. You'd also need shorter shocks than you have.

[Gbalko]

Agreed. The shocks are trashed. I spoke to QA1 and I think I am going to go the route of cutting The hole under the shock tower a little larger. I agree that the tower was designed to allow for a shock with more travel and QA1 is encouraging me not to lower it and shorten shock travel. Why the hole doesn’t line up better is beyond me. It allowed for clearance of the Monroe’s but not the QA1s. I am hoping that removing a little metal will solve the issue without having to change the shock tower or having to change the control arms.

Is there a good reason to go to tubular control arms? Seems like you guys had a lot of issues making things work and it wasn’t a direct bolt in....no problem scenario. QA1 said that I can use the stock LCA and 7/16” bolt and run coil overs if I choose. I don’t plan on auto crossing the car. Input appreciated.

[Gbalko]

RB Gray. I wanted to say thanks. I read one of your posts that got me thinking that I should check the hole under the shock tower to see if the shock was clearing. Diagnosed my problem.

[Gbalko]

C5GTO. DId you have clearance issues also? Is that why you installed shock extenders? How much travel does your shock have? My shocks are approx 14 extended and 9 collapsed with 5 inches of travel. If I did shock extenders I could gain more clearance but at the sacrifice of losing shock travel and adding a potential weak link in the system.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Gbalko

C5GTO. DId you have clearance issues also? Is that why you installed shock extenders? How much travel does your shock have? My shocks are approx 14 extended and 9 collapsed with 5 inches of travel. If I did shock extenders I could gain more clearance but at the sacrifice of losing shock travel and adding a potential weak link in the system.

Don't forget 5" of travel at the shock translates into a lot more at the wheel. How much travel do you need? I have the shorter shocks and, to the best of my knowledge, only reach travel limits when lifting it to work on it.

[C5GTO]

Originally Posted by Gbalko

C5GTO. DId you have clearance issues also? Is that why you installed shock extenders? How much travel does your shock have? My shocks are approx 14 extended and 9 collapsed with 5 inches of travel. If I did shock extenders I could gain more clearance but at the sacrifice of losing shock travel and adding a potential weak link in the system.

I haven't noticed any clearance issues on my CR from the perspective that my shocks have never been damaged from hitting spring perch. Maybe they would if fully compressed without a spring in place, maybe they wouldn't. I don't know as I don't recall ever exercising the suspension without the springs in place. I honestly don't remember why or from where the shock extenders on my car came from. I built the car about 25 years ago and don't remember all the detail. I just know they're being used and I'm sure must have been needed or I wouldn't have put them on. If I were to be changing anything on the front suspension now, I would just lower the upper shock mount and get rid of the extensions. I like simplicity and extra parts aren't simplicity.

I haven't directly measured the amount of wheel travel in compression on my CR with the car in use. My best guess is that it's about 2" or so. I have the ride height set fairly low, there just isn't that much room between the tire and fender lip, and the tire has never touched the fender. That's after 50K miles of driving and hitting my fair share of pot holes. So the amount of actual shock travel in use isn't really all that much.