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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2015, 08:35 PM
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Default Finally attempting to tackle that leaky rear

From the symptoms I was having, red fluid from the pinion on back. I was assuming rear pinion seal. Hate to take it off the road this time of year, but enough is enough. I have been driving it like this for two years with a pig tie wrapped around the center section. just intermittently topping it off.
I got all of the interior out so far. There is so much more accessibility with no seats, tunnel, and access panel. I could and should do a bunch of other jobs while I'm at it. I also now am suspicious of a leaky Tranny output shaft seal. My drive-shaft itself is dry, but the u joints on both ends are wet. The rear brake pads look very thick and evenly worn. I am thinking they must be oil soaked even though the rotors seem dry.
Here are the obvious jobs to consider:
-Rear brake pads (not sure what type to replace them with).
-Any under dash work including looking at all the wiring.
-New oil temp gauge,this one never worked.
-Tighten all the gauges up, maybe a push-button start.
-MSD 6AL box/ Pos and Neg wires need to go directly to the battery so I have heard.
-Check battery cables for chafing along frame
-Anti submarine crotch belts
-Shim the front of the seats.
- I need to move all the pedals closer to the driver so I can put the seat back more, I am sick of short arming the shifter. However, I am of afraid of doing that now because my time is limited and I might never get the car back together!
Any other ideas, suggestions or helpful advice would be more than welcome!

Thanks...Dave
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Old 05-20-2015, 03:37 AM
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Default couple of thoughts

davids2toys Dave In 15 years my oil temp gauge has bearly worked in the oil pan. I think there needs to be another location. Some of the off readings has to due with the 13 quarts of oil in the system and even after 15 minutes of abuse, I am lucky to see 140F temp instead of 180-200.
Gauges, DON'T tighten them again. If you have an AMP gauge, check the plastic sleeves for burnt out cracking. You also may want to look into a Volt Gauge instead. It's an easy swap and no more fear of burning up the wiring harness. This repair applies if you have a 70 amp alt or higher output. I think a 60 will not burn out the sleeves ( insolators).
If you are just normal driving with a little fun, stay with the stock Jag brake pads. Just rough up the surface with 80 grit sand paper. Do this is a circle motion. When done bleed the brakes to remove any air.
MSD box, If your battery cable goes from the battery directly to starter soleniod on fire wall, Mounting there for power is fine. Ground goes directly to frame. Clean of a small area of paint and mount there. Add Dye electric grease to cover connection. This stops rust.
battery POS cable, I mounted an insolator clamp every 12" to keep and movement of the cable and rubbing of cable cover. Both ends should be clean for good connections.
Shimming the seats, If you are moving the seats and changing locations from the orginial mount holes, either buy small steel plates or large fender washers and double them when remounting the seat frame bolts to the floor of the car. Bigger is better for handling the load of the seat and spreads out the weight to not rip out the bolts if an accident happens.
Crotch belt, The jury is still out on this. If the 4 main belts are setup right with the correct angle and are tight, normal driving I see no reason to use this one, IMO. Yes I use this one on the track.
I don't know what trans you have in the car but some of them have multi locations for the shifter in the car or use a different shifting handle to move it forward in the car without cutting up the tunnel or carpet.
If you really want to get crazy, add some insolation to the under side of the tunnel to help keep down temp in the car. Need the silver glue back and I added thin aluminum strips and rivets to keep them in place on the top and bottom.
That's about it, good luck with the fun. Total job time 3 days with a day for the RTV to dry completely. Rick L.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:33 AM
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Grease the U-joint fittings on driveshaft. It's much easier with the shaft removed where you can move the yoke to access the nipples easier.
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Old 05-20-2015, 06:54 AM
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I replaced the rear brake pads on mine it was painful with the rearend out. I am sure it can be done, but it is time consuming and even with the rear and tunnel out it is not easy to do. Since I was dropping the rearend to replaces a shaft seal, and the gear lube soaked brakes it was much more doable with the rearend out. I have done that twice now.

ERA has the replacment Jag Girling brake pads and they are not cheap but do work well.

Phil
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE View Post
davids2toys Dave In 15 years my oil temp gauge has bearly worked in the oil pan. I think there needs to be another location. Some of the off readings has to due with the 13 quarts of oil in the system and even after 15 minutes of abuse, I am lucky to see 140F temp instead of 180-200.
Gauges, DON'T tighten them again. If you have an AMP gauge, check the plastic sleeves for burnt out cracking. You also may want to look into a Volt Gauge instead. It's an easy swap and no more fear of burning up the wiring harness. This repair applies if you have a 70 amp alt or higher output. I think a 60 will not burn out the sleeves ( insolators).
If you are just normal driving with a little fun, stay with the stock Jag brake pads. Just rough up the surface with 80 grit sand paper. Do this is a circle motion. When done bleed the brakes to remove any air.
MSD box, If your battery cable goes from the battery directly to starter soleniod on fire wall, Mounting there for power is fine. Ground goes directly to frame. Clean of a small area of paint and mount there. Add Dye electric grease to cover connection. This stops rust.
battery POS cable, I mounted an insolator clamp every 12" to keep and movement of the cable and rubbing of cable cover. Both ends should be clean for good connections.
Shimming the seats, If you are moving the seats and changing locations from the original mount holes, either buy small steel plates or large fender washers and double them when remounting the seat frame bolts to the floor of the car. Bigger is better for handling the load of the seat and spreads out the weight to not rip out the bolts if an accident happens.
Crotch belt, The jury is still out on this. If the 4 main belts are setup right with the correct angle and are tight, normal driving I see no reason to use this one, IMO. Yes I use this one on the track.
I don't know what trans you have in the car but some of them have multi locations for the shifter in the car or use a different shifting handle to move it forward in the car without cutting up the tunnel or carpet.
If you really want to get crazy, add some insolation to the under side of the tunnel to help keep down temp in the car. Need the silver glue back and I added thin aluminum strips and rivets to keep them in place on the top and bottom.
That's about it, good luck with the fun. Total job time 3 days with a day for the RTV to dry completely. Rick L.
Rick
Thanks for detailed reply. I will try and hit all your points
I know this oil gage is not working because the previous owner had the water temp gage into the oil pan and the oil temp gage into the int manifold. Unfortunately he did not know this,. I found it because I thought my car was overheating every time I went over 3000 rpm, the temp would climb. Under 3000 rpm, right back to 185 deg. As I said, the oil gage was in the water and it never read anything.
I don't know what you have for a pan, but you should be reading temps way above 140 deg. if you are submerged in the oil at the pan location.
Here is my suspicion. My old Unique Cobra had an electric sender at the pan. That gage was not working. When I bought a new Canton RR pan for the car I filled it up with 7 qts of water, the sender was not in the water, so it was reading nothing but air. I bought the pan up to Canton and had an additional bung welded in so I would now be in the oil for sure (see attached pic). So in the ERA car, the reason the water gage worked while in the oil pan was because the mechanical senders are much longer and was actually in the oil.
I have sold the Unique, but I did keep the Canton custom pan. I will be installing it in my ERA after this present project is complete.
I already have the new replacement oil gage. It is the exact same gage and sender as the water temp, the only difference is one says water temp and one says oil temp. They are both Autometer (Smith lookalikes), readings are in Centigrade.

-Car already has a volt gage.

-So why not re-tighten a gage if it has loosened up and is moving around?

-I'm a little confused, you think I should stay with the pads that are on the car now and use 80 grit on them, or are you saying to purchase new pads, but the same type band use 80 grit on them?
Are the pads easy to remove and replace?

-MSD box is wired exactly how you are saying to have it. My race car buddy told me it needs to be direct. I thought that was ridiculous, so I call MSD last year and they said the same as my buddy. It is even in there instructions. The tech rep gave me good reasons, but I have forgotten them now...LOL, old age!

-I like your idea for the clamps on the POS wire. I will also check it for any chafe points along its length.

- Seats...I meant shimming the front 2 bolts to make the seating more comfortable. I am not relocating them at all. Both seats have seat tracks. When I took the seats out he had different shims all over the place or no shims at all. I do not understand what the thinking was here unless he was attempting to level the seats? He also had cut the length on some of the studs. I understand the frame interference on one or two of them, but there should have been no reason to cut the front studs. He did cut one of the front studs down to 1". I would like to replace it if possible so I can shim it to bring the seat up in the front and to install the anti submarine mounting bar per (ERA)Doug's instruction. The crotch belt is for looks only, I doubt I will actually ever use them.
BIG washers to spread the load are already there.

- Tranny, I have a Toploader. The mount seems to be in the correct location all the way at the rear of the tranny (see pic). I believe this is where ERA states that it is to be located. I would love to be able bring it forward rather than relocating all the pedals and all the BS that would go along with that job.

- Temps in the car are fine. However the insulation at the rear section of the tunnel is all falling apart due to the oil soaking from the pinion seal leaking(see pic). Also note in the pic the second grease/oil strip near the shifter hole. I'm thinking it is either from excess grease in the U joints, or the tranny seal is leaking.

Dave
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Last edited by davids2toys; 05-20-2015 at 09:40 AM..
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteF View Post
Grease the U-joint fittings on driveshaft. It's much easier with the shaft removed where you can move the yoke to access the nipples easier.
On my list, thanks
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Old 05-20-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Large Arbor View Post
I replaced the rear brake pads on mine it was painful with the rearend out. I am sure it can be done, but it is time consuming and even with the rear and tunnel out it is not easy to do. Since I was dropping the rearend to replaces a shaft seal, and the gear lube soaked brakes it was much more doable with the rearend out. I have done that twice now.

ERA has the replacment Jag Girling brake pads and they are not cheap but do work well.

Phil
For some reason I thought I read a while back that replacing just the pads was pretty easy? What makes this job so hard?
How much were the new pads?
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Old 05-20-2015, 10:01 AM
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Dave,

It may have more to do with my inferior mechanical skills. (: I think It may be easy just to replace pads. My recollection is a little fuzzy and i think there is a pin and a key that goes through each pad. I was trying to remove the calipers to get the rotor out without dropping the rearend and that was tough. However. The E-brake portion did not allow the caliper to just drop out of the way. It may be easy just changing pads. I have attached a pic so you have an up top view. If you can slide the pads in place and compress the caliper it may be easier.
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Old 05-21-2015, 08:18 PM
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Yeah Phil, I remember seeing this picture and saying holy S**t, that guy is brave or nuts!
If you got that far and got it all back together, you have plenty of skill IMO and certainly have my respect!!!
Thanks for the pic
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Old 05-22-2015, 03:17 AM
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Default quick notes

David2toys, Dave 80 grit paper to sand the rotors. This is to break the glazing from the old brakes and give a newer surface to breakin the new pads and seat them. Stay with the OEM Jag rear pads, You are not racing the the stock ones will work fine.

I have 12 quarts of oil to heat, oil cooler lines, oil cooler, 8 quarts in the motor oil pan and 3 quarts in the accusump. This is way my oil temps don't g
et upto temp. I need to add a thermostat to heat the oil better.

Very easy on tightening the gauge nuts. If they have insolators, make sure you don't crack them, that's all.

Call ERA and talk to Doug or Peter about can the shifter be moved forward without major changes to the tunnel. Time to reinsolate the tunnels with new heat tape. Mine looked like yours after a couple of years of racing. I added aluminum strips and rivets to help keep the tape in place and keep out the heat in the passenger compartment. Other note here, GOD forbid in case of an oil fire this tape will give you added time to get out of the car and not get burnt. I had an oil fire at the Run and Gun on the R/S of the car. A small piece of valve cover gasket broke out, We are talking about 1/4". The oil hit the header and they where rapped with temp cloth and the car still caught fire. Good thing, no damage to me or car with the silver tape all around. Didn't know I had the problem until fire truck stopped me. Poped the hood and we had a hotdog roast. Those guys needed some work any way.

Grease will not kill the glue on the back of the foam temp tape, Oil will.

AS for rear brakes, use a screwdriver to spread the pads and retract the caliper cups, remove the pins and retainer clips, sand rotors both sides, I use brake quiet from CRC to help glue the pads to the cups of the calipers, some people go dry or use high temp grease. reassembly. pump brake pedal to get pads to contact rotors. Check for release of pads from rotors. At this point I compress brake pedal and crack bleeders to remove any air and moister out of calipers. pedal goes to floor, tighten bleeders and release pedal slowly. Top off fluid and you are done. Good luck Rick L.
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Old 05-22-2015, 07:05 AM
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It sounds like your biggest issue here is the pinion seal leak. You have to address this eventually, sooner rather than later. The rear end comes out of the car really easy (I installed mine with a floor jack and my GF and daughter on each end to steady it). Once the rear is down and out you can have the seal replaced and change out the pads with stock Jag pads...really inexpensive online. As for the shifter, talk to Doug and get his ideas. Good luck.
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Old 05-23-2015, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE View Post
David2toys, Dave 80 grit paper to sand the rotors. This is to break the glazing from the old brakes and give a newer surface to breakin the new pads and seat them. Stay with the OEM Jag rear pads, You are not racing the the stock ones will work fine.

I have 12 quarts of oil to heat, oil cooler lines, oil cooler, 8 quarts in the motor oil pan and 3 quarts in the accusump. This is way my oil temps don't g
et upto temp. I need to add a thermostat to heat the oil better.

Very easy on tightening the gauge nuts. If they have insolators, make sure you don't crack them, that's all.

Call ERA and talk to Doug or Peter about can the shifter be moved forward without major changes to the tunnel. Time to reinsolate the tunnels with new heat tape. Mine looked like yours after a couple of years of racing. I added aluminum strips and rivets to help keep the tape in place and keep out the heat in the passenger compartment. Other note here, GOD forbid in case of an oil fire this tape will give you added time to get out of the car and not get burnt. I had an oil fire at the Run and Gun on the R/S of the car. A small piece of valve cover gasket broke out, We are talking about 1/4". The oil hit the header and they where rapped with temp cloth and the car still caught fire. Good thing, no damage to me or car with the silver tape all around. Didn't know I had the problem until fire truck stopped me. Poped the hood and we had a hotdog roast. Those guys needed some work any way.

Grease will not kill the glue on the back of the foam temp tape, Oil will.

AS for rear brakes, use a screwdriver to spread the pads and retract the caliper cups, remove the pins and retainer clips, sand rotors both sides, I use brake quiet from CRC to help glue the pads to the cups of the calipers, some people go dry or use high temp grease. reassembly. pump brake pedal to get pads to contact rotors. Check for release of pads from rotors. At this point I compress brake pedal and crack bleeders to remove any air and moister out of calipers. pedal goes to floor, tighten bleeders and release pedal slowly. Top off fluid and you are done. Good luck Rick L.
OK, so get new pads, got it. Is there a good place to buy the jag brakes? Do I need specific Jag brake pads for the ERA inboard brakes? Only scuff the rotor, can you explain what you mean "circular motion"? The rotors are staying on the car, so are you saying spin the rotor by hand, or start the car, put it in first gear with the wheels off the ground hold the 80 grit against it, or are you saying to just go around the rotor and just keep making making small circles?
Man, that is a lot of friggin oil! Yes, I think you need a thermostat! Also make sure your sensor is submerges in the oil!

Getting those pads off doesn't sound so bad, cant wait to dig into this.

Oil fire...never would have thought of this. I do want to repair the tunnel insulation. He has a a base material stuck to the FG, and then the shiny tape stuck onto that.

I did talk to Doug about the shifter and he suggested the moving of the pedals. I like the idea of getting a different adapter that would move the shifter forward about 2-3"and then repair the tunnel and carpet. I will have to talk to Doug again about this

Thanks
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Old 05-23-2015, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX View Post
It sounds like your biggest issue here is the pinion seal leak. You have to address this eventually, sooner rather than later. The rear end comes out of the car really easy (I installed mine with a floor jack and my GF and daughter on each end to steady it). Once the rear is down and out you can have the seal replaced and change out the pads with stock Jag pads...really inexpensive online. As for the shifter, talk to Doug and get his ideas. Good luck.
Yes, totally agree. That was the main reason I pulled the interior out is so i can do this job! I will start looking for the brake pads next week hopefully...just not enough time in the day!
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:11 PM
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Got back to it. Pads came out very easily, 2 pins, pull them out, done. To my shock, the pads looked perfect, not oil soaked at all!They appear to be semi metallic, just guessing by the look. They are not glazed at all. The rotors were also dry (miracle that I don't understand because everything around it wet and disgusting) and no ridges at all. However they do appear to be very shiny, so that may be the glazing I have been hearing about. I wonder if I can just start the car in gear and while the rotors are spinning hold some scotchbrite or sandpaper to them to roughen them up. Any thoughts?
Hopefully get to the pinion seal over the next couple of days.
Here is the bad thing I think that I found. While I was looking over the rotors from the bottom of the car. I could not help but notice how crappy of a safety wire job had been done on the sub-frame, very loose and sloppy (not an ERA built car). I work on aircraft so I am used to looking and doing much nicer work. Anyway, I notice how loose the wire was and when I touch the bolt heads they turned extremely easy with one finger. So I checked the pass side, same thing!!! It is only the rear bolt on both sides. Is there any chance these are supposed to be loose? Please tell me yes!
I would like to replace the rubber brake hose with a steel braided hose. Has anybody done this and maybe have a part number that will work?
Thanks
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