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06-12-2010, 04:42 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
You may not want a race-capable piece like this but don't skimp-you already have an $800 flywheel, right??
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Yep, needlessly pissed away a good bit on that CenterForce aluminum flywheel. I see the ATIs for me are around $375, the Fluidamper comes in around $433, and the high end Professional Product is around $245, and the cheap crap is all below that. Why is there such a disparity in price? If the existing balancer just pulls off without the need for a puller tool, is it still necessary to use an "installation tool?" I've never done that in the past. |
06-12-2010, 05:23 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
I've heard bad things about the Fluidamper (the brand not the type). I can't substantiate what I heard but am very glad I got the Innovators piece. It's been on the motor for 12 seasons-plus it's rebuildable by Art. The Fluidamper is sealed so it's not.
Price depends on steel or aluminum, fluid or solid and where manufactured as well as the precision of machining. ATI's are very good-I've seen them run on dynos to 8000+.
About removal/install; you don't have room to pry (barbaric) in the car anyway so don't skimp-buy or borrow the tools. I've seen guys hammer them on (also barbaric) but the tools actually make it easier in the car. I did it on my back. Good new is you can use your impact wrench to spin the bolt off. Going on you gotta put it in gear (rear tires on ground) because they all want well over 100 lbft of torque.
Interference fit is vital-that's why you need the install tool. You can't just push these on. Do this; take your dial caliper (that reads to .0000") and measure the crank snout-take readings in 4 places around the nose. In my case, I called Art, told him my numbers and he honed one to my proper press fit. Every manufacturer wants a different number so if you buy an ATI for instance, measure the damper ID and their installation sheet will tell you the press they want. Compare to your crank's OD and do the math. If it's too tight, go to a local machinist and get it honed. Too loose and send it back for another.
Get an ARP bolt-don't reuse old one-torque to damper's spec. Don't lose the woodruff key!
__________________
Chas.
Last edited by ERA Chas; 06-12-2010 at 05:26 PM..
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06-12-2010, 05:26 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry_R
ATI is the best - the FE one is roughly 7 degrees off on the TDC marking and uses a Chevy pulley bolt pattern. More race car quality at just under $400. I have no experience with BHJ, but they should be comparable.
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Thanks Barry -- ATI it is. BTW, Amazon wrote me that they shipped your book to me on Friday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
About removal/install; you don't have room to pry (barbaric) in the car anyway so don't skimp-buy or borrow the tools. I've seen guys hammer them on (also barbaric) but the tools actually make it easier in the car. I did it on my back. Good new is you can use your impact wrench to spin the bolt off. Going on you gotta put it in gear (rear tires on ground) because they all want well over 100 lbft of torque.
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OK, I'll do it your way. As much as you are a PITA, you're generally more right than wrong -- thanks.  |
06-12-2010, 06:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
OK, I'll do it your way. As much as you are a PITA, you're generally more right than wrong -- thanks. |
Barry gives the best reason-the OE's are never accurate with the timing marks.
I'm glad to share if I've gone through something that can help somebody-EVEN you.  Just glad that thing didn't frag at 70 MPH on the way to your haberdasher... 
__________________
Chas.
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06-12-2010, 06:21 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
This looks like it might fit the bill: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-918290/ What do you think? Looks like they're a little back ordered on it though. |
06-12-2010, 06:26 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
Fine-just check with Barry that the 3 bolt pulley you have works with that and make sure the fan belt lines up correctly when all bolted up. And order the bolt at the same time.
Just curious, the Innovators is $35 cheaper...?
__________________
Chas.
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06-12-2010, 06:37 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Well, lemmee look at the Innovators again. In the meantime, Barry will this pulley work on the ATI 918290?
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06-13-2010, 05:58 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,417
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas
Barry gives the best reason-the OE's are never accurate with the timing marks. |
I always check the balancer against a degree wheel and piston stop. If they're off, you can get the MSD timing tape (it's available for a myriad of balancer diameters) and you can make it right. |
06-13-2010, 06:18 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Keith & Barry -- Thank you both; excellent advice, as usual.
Brent -- I'll degree it just to make sure. I'm betting it will be off -- everything I buy for that car is, but that's half the fun...
Rick -- I'm not about to rebuild that POS dampner.  But thank you for the thought.
BTW, for what its worth, in Steve Christ's book (page 137) he says to put the dampner on by whacking it with a hammer and that it can be pulled on by installing the center bolt. For decades I've done it that same way, but, WTF, I'll go ahead and take the advice of all of you and pull it and install it with the special tool. I need another tool anyway.... (My Haynes Techbook Ford Engine Overhaul Manual does say to use the special tool, though.)
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06-13-2010, 06:30 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,417
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Not Ranked
Which one you gonna buy Patrick? The ATI?
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06-19-2010, 03:33 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Carrollton,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: JBL now SOLD
Posts: 1,735
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Yep, needlessly pissed away a good bit on that CenterForce aluminum flywheel. I see the ATIs for me are around $375, the Fluidamper comes in around $433, and the high end Professional Product is around $245, and the cheap crap is all below that. Why is there such a disparity in price? If the existing balancer just pulls off without the need for a puller tool, is it still necessary to use an "installation tool?" I've never done that in the past.
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Patrick, what happened with the aluminum flywheel?
__________________
6th generation Texan....
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06-19-2010, 03:44 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,025
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdean
Patrick, what happened with the aluminum flywheel?
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Chas. just likes to make fun of me that I pissed away about $700 on a Centerforce flywheel when I could have gotten something just as good for about half that price. That was five years ago, and I think their prices went down after I bought one. Or more likely, I just managed to piss away dough....  It's a beautiful flywheel, though.
Last edited by patrickt; 06-19-2010 at 03:46 PM..
Reason: typos
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06-19-2010, 04:49 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,078
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt
Chas. just likes to make fun of me that I pissed away about $700 on a Centerforce flywheel when I could have gotten something just as good for about half that price.
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CORRECTION! BRENT and Chas... 
__________________
Chas.
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