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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 02:35 PM
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Purchased a Roush 427sr/tw. It has been flawless.
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 03:30 PM
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David...something tells me you have the right watch for your locale.

Rodknock..."time" is all we have. The rest is but a dream.

I guess I bypassed a lot of concerns by getting my motor built locally. Lucky to have a master (Joe Boghosian) five miles away. Told me he'd beat me to death with his one good arm if I ever so much as took a valve cover off of "his" engine. He still sets the valves and adjusts the timing, etc. Despite being an aggressive big motor, the only real trouble over the years (as I laid out here before) were the collection of worn out/broken bronze gears resulting from the solid roller cam I had him start with. Since switching back to a big flat tappet a few years ago...runs like...

...well, a clock.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 03:46 PM
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Roush 427R. A flawless jewel! Magnificent engine.
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 04:01 PM
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Anybody can make a modern small block run...
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
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Anybody can make a modern small block run...

True.

Must be why we use 'em , not to mention the cost advantage
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 05:01 PM
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Hehehehe......I'll give ya that one.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 07:27 PM
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I forgot to mention I had a Keith Craft 306 in my first one, never had an issue with it either and I beat the living sheet out of that car and the next owner continued the tradition last I heard it was still runing strong.
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2008, 07:30 PM
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The reason I don't beat the sheet out of the Roush is it scares the sheet out of me if I floor it more than 2 seconds. It is a true monster but if you drive the Roush "normal" it is as streetable as the 306.
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 05:44 AM
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Default Any help for the OP????

To stay on topic, has anyone sent an e-mail or phoned SA and asked them to respond to this thread?

Several people have reported good luck with SA, please contact Bill P and ask him to post so we can get his side of the story.

Eric
  #90 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 11:39 AM
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I already sent Bill & Susan an E-mail regarding this issue. I think it would be nice of them to respond to the negative comments of some folks....but it might just "add more fuel to the fire". Perhaps the issue should be resolved by the parties involved, and not trial by Club Cobra
Best Regards, Bill Bess
  #91 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Bess View Post
I already sent Bill & Susan an E-mail regarding this issue. I think it would be nice of them to respond to the negative comments of some folks....but it might just "add more fuel to the fire". Perhaps the issue should be resolved by the parties involved, and not trial by Club Cobra
Best Regards, Bill Bess
Bill, agreed.

If Donald and Bill both felt they had the issue resolved, it would not matter to me if I knew how they resolved the issue.

Donald, let us know if your phone rings!

Eric
  #92 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
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Donald, let us know if your phone rings!

Eric
Then the "trial by Club Cobra" would have worked to some degree, if the two parties restart discussions.

While you want to eliminate the "lunatic fringe" from posting bad remarks about vendors or any kind, the airing of proper and measured remarks of a bad experience (i.e., dirty laundry) is the consumer's way of holding the truly bad vendors accountable.
  #93 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2008, 12:22 PM
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Then the "trial by Club Cobra" would have worked to some degree, if the two parties restart discussions.

While you want to eliminate the "lunatic fringe" from posting bad remarks about vendors or any kind, the airing of proper and measured remarks of a bad experience (i.e., dirty laundry) is the consumer's way of holding the truly bad vendors accountable.
+10000

When accurate facts (even if they are only from one side) are posted in a manner that allows the reader to gain empathy for the person posting (either Pro or Con), the reader can decide whether they want, or do not want do business with the person or company in question.

E
  #94 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 10:36 AM
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I had quite a long chat with Bill this afternoon and he was able to give me his side of the story and from what I hear, it is nowhere near as clear-cut as has been suggested.
Bill has said that he will respond on the forum, so I don't want to steal his thunder, but it would seem the original poster may have been selective with some facts, exagerated others and simply fabricated others.
As a business owner myself, it always makes me very uncomfortable when I see someone bad-mouthing someone elses business without getting the other side of the story. There is very little, if any comeback on anyone who simply has an axe to grind and vents their angst on a public forum, but it can cause untold damage to someone's hard earned repuation and livelihood.
For the record, my experience of Bill (and Susan) and that of others I have spoken to here in the UK, has always been very positive and they have always been thoroughly honourable and honest in all dealings I have had with them.

Nuff said.

Paul

Last edited by FatBoy; 08-27-2008 at 11:35 AM..
  #95 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:27 AM
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From Southern Automotive

A lot of thought has gone into writing an appropriate response to this vent. We have always done everything possible to make all of our customers happy. We respond to any problems and provide product & monetary support when applicable and such support was provided to this customer. I think the last few communications between Southern Automotive (SA) and this customer will tell all.

After talking with Don’s repair facility on 5/28/08, we sent the parts needed to repair the damage done by a broken new 427 factory rocker arm shaft stand bolt. We sent by UPS 2nd day air a complete rocker arm assembly for one side, 3 pushrods, one set of rocker arm shaft stand studs and valve cover gaskets. Heard nothing until 6/17 when Don faxes a scathing letter accusing us of the following which he has posted in this thread:

1. Never told him what was wrong with first engine – When we learned he had a
problem with coolant in the oil in the first engine, we responded immediately
and shipped a new engine to him via air freight within 4 weeks. We paid all
costs associated with the replacement. Although we shipped the replacement engine
on 6/22/07, Don held the first engine for almost 6 months before our freight
carrier could pick it up for return to us. Shortly after receiving the engine back,
we pressure tested and traced the problem to a pin hole in the top part of the Fel Pro
head gasket which allowed coolant to enter the valley one drop at a time.

2. Engine never test run – We test run or dyno every engine we build and no one would
believe that we would ship a motor without testing. I guess someone with a crystal
ball looked at the exhaust ports and could tell that all of the soot came from Don’s
driving and not our testing.

3. Oil was new and no gas in carb – That’s totally false. We do drain the oil and run
the carb and fuel lines completely dry as a safety requirement for all air shipments.

4. Loose rockers all around – Adjusting valves is a part of routine maintenance with a
solid lifter cam and our Owners Manual explains how to do it properly and if Don
had done this, he might not have had any problems.

5. Customer states he only had 5 hours on the engine - Obviously not true. He received
the engine 11 months prior to when the problem with the rocker stand bolt was reported. Also, on 10/3/07 SA paid AutoStrada $600 for the install.which was
about 8 months before any problem reported.

We left on vacation right after receiving his letter and a bill for repairs. Since we did not
answer him, immediately, we received the following e-mail on 7/2/08 threatening to ruin our reputation unless we paid the ransom he was demanding:

Dear Bill and Susan,
I continue to be disappointed with my experience with Southern Automotive as it has now been just over two weeks since I sent the invoice for the repairs to my Southern Automotive 427 to you for reimbursement. Again, my expectations would have been that you would immediately forward a reimbursement for the entire invoice after all I have been through with your product.
Please let me know your intentions at this time regarding this invoice so that I can make a decision regarding my next course of action. I will take no response as an indication that you are not willing to stand behind your product and that you do not care about the reputation of your company.
Sincerely,
Donald M. Campbell

We responded on 7/2/08 with the following e-mail:

Don-
Sorry for the screwed up replies. We will be back in the shop on 7/10 and Bill will be in contact with you then.
Susan

On 7/11/08 we sent the following e-mail:

Donald-
I mailed a check today.
Susan

On 7/11/08 Don replied with this e-mail:

Dear Bill and Susan,

Thank you very much. The car is running very well now and I look forward to enjoying it and putting this behind us!

Sincerely,

Donald M. Campbell

So what’s wrong now??? I will guess he didn’t like his check. Although Don states in the 6th post on this thread that SA only paid for a new bolt and pushrods, SA actually paid $356.49 for the following charges by Meridian AND sent new parts and gaskets as described earlier.
$ 85.00 – 1 hour to remove broken pedestal mount bolt
$170.00 – 2 hours to reassemble rocker arms and adjust valves
$ 52.69 – pushrods for passenger side
$ 48.80 – freight to send parts to SA

We did not pay:
$33.89 – header gaskets
$170.00 – 2 hours labor to replace both header gaskets.
Header gaskets are an installation item. Nothing that SA installs, sells or has
control over. We did pay his agent (AutoStrada) $600 to install the replacement
motor. Maybe Don should seek a little warranty work from them.

We did not pay:
$250.00 – chassis dyno
Customer’s option. SA can only tune & adjust carb based on our location.

Although both problems boil down to two small part failures (gasket & bolt), it does not minimize the frustration caused to both the customer and builder. In both cases, Southern Automotive acted responsibly and expeditiously to serve our customer.
Bill and Susan
  #96 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:35 AM
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Goes to show there are two sides to every story.
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:46 AM
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Good to hear from the other side. Thank you.

Your posting of dates of interactions provides me with the ability to discern much more credibility in this matter. I had an issue with an engine builder in recent past (for a short block, tho - not a complete engine) and received nowhere near the attention stipulated in your response.

OK, Mr. Campbell, your reply?
  #98 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 01:37 PM
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Bill and Susan...many thanks for posting a reply. As has been shown many many times on this site (and I would think everywhere else on this thing we call the internet), folks should always wait for both sides to be stated before jumping to any conclusions.

There are always two sides to a dispute...I make good money on that premise.

Obviously, there may be a counterpoint, or maybe not. In many situations, clear conclusions may never be reached. Once delivery is made and third parties become involved in installations or the passage of time occurs, it becomes damn hard to know what's what. I've been a AAA mediator and arbitrator in such cases (from high-end show roadster commissioned builds to repair work) over the past few decades and I have to say that each case inevitably stands on its own...and with a great deal more case presentation and challenge than can ever occur on a special interest site thread.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 01:45 PM
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A lesson for all, documentation including pictures is the key to ending opinions and getting to the facts.
  #100 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2008, 02:47 PM
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Almost a 'draw', but I'd have to go with SA on this one, a decent response from them to a troubling thread, no clear winner. Loose valves could be a contributing factor to broken stud, hard to say. At any rate, the installer should have checked valve adjustment before startup and immediatly after 'run in' to verify, sounds like that didn't happen. Fel Pro gasket leak, man, I hate when that happens! What are you gonna do, like you have control of the gasket quality? Change brands? I'm not sure that gaurentee's a solution either, but it does serve as a warning, Fel Pro!

What a nightmare...
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