Canton oil pan gasket

[dcdoug]

This is probably a stupid question, but will the motorcraft sealant also function as a bit of an adhesive so I can attach the gasket to the pan to make installation easier? If not, what do you recommend?

[dcdoug]

I pulled the pan today and found my problem - one of the bolts was broken. I really didn't think I over-torqued anything before, but maybe I did. Of course it's the bolt on the corner by the cross member so its a bit hard to get at.

So I have sprayed it several times with penetrating oil. I then drilled a hole in the bolt and inserted a screw extractor and i can't frickin' believe it, but the extractor broke off in the hole. The bolt is broken off below the surface of the hole and the extractor is about flush with the hole, so there is nothing to grab onto to remove it. I tried to drill it, but I think I need a harder bit as the extractor steel is harder than the bolt by quite a bit. I also hit the extractor nub a few times with a screwdriver and hammer to see if i could loosen it.

None of the other bolts were at all hard to remove, so I am surprised this one is being such a bugger.

So in the AM I plan to go get a cobalt bit to drill out the extractor and also buy a tougher extractor. Hopefully the penetrating oil will help some too. I hope I don't screw up the threads in the hole getting this thing out. Anything I am not thinking of or should try?

[undy]

You're going to have one he!! of a time getting that out. I don't know if a cobalt drill is going to do the trick. Those extractors (even the cheap ones) are very h-a-r-d. I don't know that I wouldn't go immediately adjacent to the broken bolt and drill/tap a new hole and forget about the broken one.It's sort of a jack-leg thing to do but it would end up accomplishing the same thing.

Dave

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

I don't know that I wouldn't go immediately adjacent to the broken bolt and drill/tap a new hole and forget about the broken one.It's sort of a jack-leg thing to do but it would end up accomplishing the same thing.

Dang Undy, I was typing that exact same piece of advice when yours popped up. Doug, grind it off even with the block, fill up the hole, tap a new hole right next to it and do the same with your pan.

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Dang Undy, I was typing that exact same piece of advice when yours popped up. Doug, grind it off even with the block, fill up the hole, tap a new hole right next to it and do the same with your pan.

It's sort of crappy drilling a odd hole in a NOS side oiler block though.. That would bother me to some extent.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

It's sort of crappy drilling a odd hole in a NOS side oiler block though.. That would bother me to some extent.

No one will ever know. It's one of those secrets you take to your grave with you.

[dcdoug]

I am giving the cobalt bit a shot first. I'd really like not to drill a new hole. The extractor should come out if I can get the drill bit in there a bit. Made zero progress last night with a normal metal bit.

[ERA Chas]

Doug,
If you're on a lift can you try torch/heat on the pan rail first?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Doug,
If you're on a lift can you try torch/heat on the pan rail first?

Make a note of your fuel line before you fire up that torch....

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Make a note of your fuel line before you fire up that torch....

Thank God you're on duty Patrick-Master of the Obvious...
9187

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Thank God you're on duty Patrick-Master of the Obvious...
9187

Yep, kinda like "Honey, take it easy on this sweeping left turn up ahead or she'll come right out from under you...."

[dcdoug]

I'm not on a lift. Its so much more fun to do it on your back under the car on stands. I have made some progress, but still haven't gotten the bolt out yet.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

I'm not on a lift. Its so much more fun to do it on your back under the car on stands. I have made some progress, but still haven't gotten the bolt out yet.

Well the Skins just choked and barfed on a fourth and goal, so stay under your car.

[patrickt]

Well, did you get it out?

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well, did you get it out?

Short answer is no, but I think I will be able to. I broke the bit late in the day and will get a new one tomorrow (there is a bit more to do). I really don't want to drill any new holes in that block. It would also be tough to do with the cross member somewhat in the way. And I REALLY want to get this done with the engine in the car.

I was able to find a hard enough drill bit to drill out most of that broken extractor. Ironically they market it as a "universal bit" but it has a cobalt tungsten tip that cuts much better than the straight cobalt bit, which was crap.

Frustrating not to get it done this weekend though. It's always these little stupid things that take all the time. But probably not much more frustrating that the Skins.

I just want to get it done for the Middleburg cruise in a few weeks. Are you planning to go?

[patrickt]

I am going to see if I can do it. The Skins were so pathetic it's almost hard to describe. One of my kids' teams could have done better out there. I agree it would be a shame to have to pull the engine because of an oil pan bolt. Maybe if you just keep whittling away with the universal bit you'll get it out.

[damdfw]

Doug,
Keep at it and I'm sure you will get that broken bolt out. I was wondering where you found the cobalt tip universal bit. I have been trying to drill through some very hard stainless steel and have broken numerous cobalt bits.

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Short answer is no, but I think I will be able to. I broke the bit late in the day and will get a new one tomorrow (there is a bit more to do). I really don't want to drill any new holes in that block. It would also be tough to do with the cross member somewhat in the way. And I REALLY want to get this done with the engine in the car.

I was able to find a hard enough drill bit to drill out most of that broken extractor. Ironically they market it as a "universal bit" but it has a cobalt tungsten tip that cuts much better than the straight cobalt bit, which was crap.

Frustrating not to get it done this weekend though. It's always these little stupid things that take all the time. But probably not much more frustrating that the Skins.

I just want to get it done for the Middleburg cruise in a few weeks. Are you planning to go?

[dcdoug]

Question for you - the bolts I removed for the oil pan were 5/8" long. The new Mr. Gasket 427 FE bolts with serrated heads are 3/4" long. If I screw them in without the pan attached, they won't go all the way in as the holes are not deep enough. There is about 1/8" left. How thick is the pan + gasket going to be? Is 3/4" the standard length or are these too long for some reason? I can always put a lock washer on there and take up 1/16" of the gap if I need to, but thought I would ask about bolt length. I even called Summit to be sure these were the right bolts (they confirmed that they were).

Oh, and I have been unable to work on the car for a week, so still don't have the broken bolt out yet, but am close. I'll get it. Been a serious b!tch to get out. The bolts all turned easily before, so not sure why it's so jammed in there. I examined the bolt that broke and it looks like there was a flaw in it and that's why it broke. At least that's what I will tell myself so I don't feel like such and a**

Thanks for the help.

[Bobcat]

Doug ... I had the same problem with my pan bolts .... they were too long , but short enough that when they were installed along with a lock washer , they gave the impression of being tight and the pan being secure . However , that was because they had bottomed out ... oil pan leaked like the devil and took a while to find out why . I kept retorqueing the bolts and it didn`t help . I have to pull my pan now to change out the gasket and am real interested to see if the Mr Gasket bolts can be made to work , otherwise , I`ll use studs with blue Locktite .
An alternative is to shorten all the bolts ... but that would be a real pita .

Bob

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Doug ... I had the same problem with my pan bolts .... they were too long , but short enough that when they were installed along with a lock washer , they gave the impression of being tight and the pan being secure . However , that was because they had bottomed out ... oil pan leaked like the devil and took a while to find out why . I kept retorqueing the bolts and it didn`t help . I have to pull my pan now to change out the gasket and am real interested to see if the Mr Gasket bolts can be made to work , otherwise , I`ll use studs with blue Locktite .
An alternative is to shorten all the bolts ... but that would be a real pita .

Bob

Be careful about continuing to re-torque bolts. I had one with a flaw in it and it sheared off (don't know what grade of bolt it was, I didn't install it, but am replacing them all). You want to see a REAL PITA, spend some time on your back drilling out a bolt and removing it with an extractor. Uh, and don't break the extractor like I did. 10x more of a PITA. Then you get to deal with any thread damage that may have occurred and installing a repair kit, which I will likely need to do.

I think the longer bolts will be fine going into the timing cover and maybe the rear bolts too. the ones along the side will definitely need to be cut down. Compared to the above, a reciprocating saw with a hacksaw blade should make this fairly easy.