jdean, get your jbl on the road yet?

[vector1]

in the pic above the radiator is out of the gray car. both cars have the same radiator specs and are angled the same. be careful of the thickness on your fan, the black car has a shroud on the fan and has room to spare regarding the cross brace behind it. the gray car does not have a shroud and the fan is thicker and the cross piece had to be relieved and the radiator was spaced out from the frame 3 washers thickness. also be careful not to mount your radiator rigidly, i used rubber grommets with 3/8's id and 5/8 od with washer between the bolt head and grommet.

i don't know how you are going to mount it deeper because of the frame it attaches to. the top of the radiator is prob 3-4" to the inside of the opening.

[jdean]

I will have to sort that out. Larry thinks it may work leaning it back instead of forward and he will modify the brackets to make it work. The problem area will be the steering rack in the way of the lower hose. Anyway if it wont work I will revert to the "standard".

Dont worry I will not mount it without some rubber insulation.

[vector1]

cool. on the gray car instead of messing with the present setup i changed to what i think is called coolflex hose, kind of a convoluted stuff. made the hole through the front sheer panel, missed the steering linkage and sway bar attachment and curved down to a rubber 90 deg. elbow off the water pump.

[Richard Hudgins]

Mark,

Jdeans chassis is entirely different from yours. He has the Touring chassis and you have the Comp chassis.

Two entirely different beasts. Nothing is the same on either chassis other then the rear pumpkin and the steering rack.

Touring chassis

The bodies are the same except Jdeans has the new rear flares.

Jdean, why do you wish to angle the radiator the opposite direction?

[jmarsey]

......yeah Richard, why can't folks just leave well enough alone??

[jdean]

Richard,

I want to move it inward a bit because there is room and I think it looks better that way. I've had a CR with the radiator vertical, and an ERA with it slanted rearward and neither had cooling problems and both had big blocks. That's about the only thing I'm messin' with.

John Marsey - Nope I can't just leave well enough alone and that's really funny coming from you :0

[jmarsey]

Glad you got my joke Jdean. I thought it was pretty funny too.

I can tell you that I’ve had 6k miles of zero cooling issues, in fact, water runs on the cool side even in 100+ ambient air, based on a Siamese bore 331 / 580hp. I don’t know anything about big blocks or the touring chassis.

The JBL spec radiator and orientation is more than adequate if you plumb your system correctly, expansion tank with air bleed back to radiator, and Edelbrock or Stewart pump. The only mods I did were to make a full aluminum sheet metal shroud on the fan side, approx 2” clear air space, and mount the Spal fan to the shroud. The fan motor interferes with the small cross member and that can be altered very simply for clearance. The other mod was having the Howe radiator made 1” wider on each side but same core thickness. Don’t quote me on exact width, I’d have to measure and it still needs to be able to come out through the front opening once body is bonded to chassis (very important). However, I don’t feel the additional width is needed.

I think cooling issues are many times a result of poor plumbing, circulation speed, and a well made shroud.

Don’t know if any of this applies but at least you know what I did.

John

[vector1]

Originally Posted by Richard Hudgins

Mark,

Jdeans chassis is entirely different from yours. He has the Touring chassis and you have the Comp chassis.

Two entirely different beasts. Nothing is the same on either chassis other then the rear pumpkin and the steering rack.

Touring chassis

The bodies are the same except Jdeans has the new rear flares.

Jdean, why do you wish to angle the radiator the opposite direction?

uhoh, the man behind the curtain!

where you been richard?

i haven't had any cooling issues once the systems were set up correctly. i think the tilt forward is a better design and sets the jbl/hudgins designed cars apart from the rest of the pack. i also changed the pump on the crate motored grey car to a stewart stage 3, the other is electric.

[Richard Hudgins]

Folks,

The tilt forward design is on purpose.

It is a air pressure/annulus stall thing.

You build much higher pressure and therein flow with the forward tilt.

And you do not encounter annulus stall until a much higher speed.

Ideally you need a opening in the bonnet to exit the air upwards and this was in the original design but it seems that folks wish these things to look a certain way.

If you look at the radiator location relative to the body you will see that it is positioned in just the right place for an air exit. Much like the Daytona Coupe.

However I am going on here.

Jdean, you can mount the bloody thing anyway that makes you happy and with any luck it will cool perfectly.

For a road car it really does not make that much difference.

What does is the fan. Give that part of your design a lot of attention.

[vector1]

jdean

couple more things you might think about while building yours. both mine use the brake pressure sensor for the tail lights, these cars take little brake pressure to come to a stop. i have had people tell me my brake lights don't work, well they work, but the pressure to make them work is more of a sudden stop situation. there are different psi switches and i am going to have to switch mine out and hope that is the fix, if you use a mechanical type disregard this.

your car might be different but my steering linkage crosses atop the exhaust pipes and while sitting still with the engine running for a longer length of time like tuning or working on the engine and then driving i noticed the steering took quite a bit more effort. i think the heat off the pipes was having an effect on either the spider joint or shaft inside the column. i put some insulation around the shaft and u-joint and haven't seen the problem yet. the heat could be moving up the fire wall and into the column but don't know for certain. this is on the black car, haven't noticed it on the grey car yet and steering feels freer on the grey car also.

just a couple things to think about. hth

[jdean]

Thanks Mark. I've got mine so that there are only two u-joints in the steering shaft, one at each end. I dont think much heat will make it that far. I am using a mechanical switch for the tail lights....I never cared for the pressure switches. Still debating on the radiator but as you can see I got plenty of room to work with since the touring chassis does not use the internally located shocks.

[jdean]

Mark,

The pumpkin bushings are 1 7/8" diameter and 1/2" thick, two per side. No reason why 2" diameter would not work either.

John

[vector1]

hey john

have any pics or part numbers of your mechanical brake light assembly? i need to change mine real bad.

how's that upright radiator setup going?

i think richard said your rear diff setup is different than mine, thanks for the measurements though.

[jdean]

Mark,

Here is a link to one on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...Q5fAccessories
If you use a Ford 8.8 IRS pumpkin from a Thunderbird then the front two bushings should be the same, unless they are some custom odd size. Mine are stock Ford.

Got the radiator and fan all mounted in the vertical position. Looks good. Next is to install the radiator hoses.

[vector1]

thanks john, couple assemblys on the way.

i'm getting a garage at run n gun if you want to pit in the neighborhood, $60 is pretty cheap rain insurance.

maybe we can talk richard into driving the factory rig out and helping with setup and driver instruction!

[jdean]

Got the pipes back from coating. Also here are some pics of the radiator installed vertically, and the dash mocked up.







Notice the tricky angle for the bottom hose to avoid the steering rack.

[vector1]

niice,and like the steering wheel. definitely plenty of room on this one.

[Garage10]

your pipes look great. What coating did you go with ? Have you fired your car up yet with the powerjection ? or talked with anyone else running one to get an actual opinion on them ?
Thanks
Brent

[jdean]

Brent, I went with "chrome" ceramic on the headers and black satin ceramic on the side pipes. Have not yet cranked it with the Powerjection but hope to fire it up in a week or so. I have not spoken with anyone that has run it, but from what I have read it ranges from having some bugs to work out to plug and play with no issues.

[vector1]

hope your efi works better than mine (accel), i just pulled all of it and am going back to carb. 6+ mos. of dicking with the efi, 1 1/2 wks to put the carb back on. might be done in time for the shelby meet.