Announcing New Kirkham Billet Aluminum 427 Block

[HighPlainsDrifter]

GREAT JOB DAVID !
Finally someone is bringing motorcycle technology to the "old" car world. I have been involved in racing bikes for so long I can't remember.
A 1300 CC engine ,about 72 cubic inches can easily make over 200 HP. So your 427 cubes could easily make 900 HP with good heads and valvetrain.

Thanks for bringing us into the 21st century at last !
Perry.

[flwolfman]

Looks great! Way to go! Let's see....wood block, wood crank....anyone making wood pistons yet? Jim

[Excaliber]

Hidden costs.

I don't know about the CURRENT crop of Shelby blocks but the early ones required a LOT of machine shop work, as I suspect other 'modern' blocks do as well. These 'hidden costs' drive the up the 'real' cost of the block considerably. If Davids block comes out 'good to go' with only light machining required here and there it would be a bargain compared to others.

[David Kirkham]

Ernie,

Our block will be supplied with NO additional machining required. The bores will already be HONED to size with torque plates. No decking, no line boring, no honing. Just assembly.

David

[Wayne Maybury]

35 years ago, I used to race snow mobiles. At that time the "chrome" plated aluminum cylinders would not stand up to much severe punishment and there was no one in this area who could re-coat them. After having to replace several cylinders, I switched to cast iron as an economical alternative. I have no idea what type of chrome was being used at the time but the engines were made in Germany. It is too long ago to remember any of the details.

Wayne

[David Kirkham]

More pictures here:

http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/mfg/block_index.html

I have lots more pictures coming up!

David

[mrmax]

better you wear it out than me!

[Excaliber]

No additional machining required on the Kirkham block? Now thats just down right unfair competition. How you expect KC to pay the rent?

[Excaliber]

The new Shelby alloy blocks were also noted for leaking at the rear main seal, so it's not just the old FE's were talking about. Not a big enough oil drain back hole in the Shelby, which would flood the seal area.

My side oiler don't leak, I took special attention during assembly to 'get it right'.

[olddog]

Well not too much talk about the main bearing cap design. I very much like that idea.

I will point out that all the aluminum blocks, I have seen, have steel main caps. Since aluminum's thermal expansion is about 4 times that of steel, the only time the mains are round is when everything is at the temp that it was line bored at. At all other temps the mains are out of round to some degree. Making the caps as a single piece of aluminum certainly solves this problem.

However since both halves of the caps are now aluminum, the bearing clearance will likely change by almost twice that of a steel cap engine. Have you calculated the main bearing clearance, when both cold and at operating temp? It's a little scary starting a modular ford when it is -15 F, as there is almost no clearance left - with a steel cap.

As for the Nikisil, is it similar to nickel? My industrial experience with nickel and other coatings has been that when done correctly it sticks very well and when not it peals off like a bad paint job. We have yet to find a coater that does it right more than about 90% of the time.

[Excaliber]

Is that Kieth Black block shown above the type AA fuel dragsters use? I hear they make around 5 or 6000 horse power, ribs might be a good idea! 700-1000 horse? Eh, maybe not so critical

[Commander]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Is that Kieth Black block shown above the type AA fuel dragsters use? I hear they make around 5 or 6000 horse power, ribs might be a good idea! 700-1000 horse? Eh, maybe not so critical

I hear that high-riser sideoilers are over-rated claptrap, especially with the factory 2x4 intakes. Whatever, I don't have one, never had one, and don't particularly want one. So that makes me an expert?

I don't want to argue KB vs TFX vs Arias vs latest NHRA-spec top fuel engines, but notice that I did post that that block pictured was a water block...if you know anything at all you'll know that they don't use hollow blocks in top fuel to make "5 or 6000 horse power".

All I'm saying is that, IF the webbing could be done given the necessary paths the tooling has to follow, it would BE a good idea. Looking at the design, I'm thinking it just isn't possible in a CNC block to leave the webbing there. I object to calling it "moon glow" engineering instead of just admitting that it can't be done and still have the one long water jacket cover in the valley.

For the Kirkham's sake, I worry about the marketing plan: 600 HP max vs the 1500 HP rating of the Shelby block and whatever 1000++ rating the Pond and Genesis blocks are good for. The marketing plan is "it's a little lighter so just get yourself that steel crank", "just don't make too much power"? Don't make too much power, for Cobra owners??????? I don't know about that strategy.

I am waiting to hear the results from the dyno room, which at this stage, are the only results that matter. It's a great effort, I hope it all works as planned.

edit: all these weight comparisons, does the 79 pounds include all the bolts (and all the safety wire) for all of those water jacket covers? Another question, why did Ford abandon its planned use of coating bare aluminum to create a 5.0 l modular? 5.4L details - note the 110 pound weight, with iron sleeves (and all bolts it looks like )

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Commander

For the Kirkham's sake, I worry about the marketing plan: 600 HP max vs the 1500 HP rating of the Shelby block and whatever 1000++ rating the Pond and Genesis blocks are good for. The marketing plan is "it's a little lighter so just get yourself that steel crank", "just don't make too much power"? Don't make too much power, for Cobra owners??????? I don't know about that strategy.

Maybe the Kirkhams should consider offers the block BOTH ways. Coated cylinders for those who want it, and sleeved bores for those who want that. This way you can cater people on both sides of the fence, and have 100% of the people interested buying the product.

[Rick Parker]

Porsche has been using it for a LOOOONNNNGGG time, and we dont need to talk about their reliability at racing speeds do we?

[djseed]

Quick suggestion for the new block.

Don't forget to put the C5AE (or whatever) manufacturing code on the block in the proper spot. This is a replacement block for an original 427. I only suggest this because certain provinces, like Ontario, Canada and States I would assume, use the date code of the block to determine the title year for the ownership of the car. I have a 1970 429 and as such I can title my car as a 1970 SPF. With this date I am exempt from smog requirements.

I know the Pond Motorsports block has this cast in.

[quickjack]

David,
That is a beautiful piece of work. Are going to you heat treat it?
It looks like an awful lot of chips for under $5000!

Jack

[STEVE POTTS]

You can buy a brand new 3000 to 4000 pound car for $5 to $15/pound. Even an exotic high performance car would cost about $20 to $30 per pound.

This block alone will cost $62.5 per pound. The aluminum chips left over from the 400 pound blank can be re-meted and re-cast into more blanks. My point is that the leftover chips are not discarded, they have a scrap value.

Aluminum costs about $1.50 per pound for the raw material ready to be machined.

Compare this to a brand new scat crankshaft for an FE. The cranks weighs roughly 70 pounds and sell for $500. Thats only $7.00 per pound for a highly machined/finished product.

[saltytri]

Steve Potts:

Of course we all know you had your tongue planted firmly in your cheek. By your standard, I should have paid about $3000 for my Kirkham. I suspect there would be more than a few takers under your "technology by the pound" theory. Oh, excuse me, I have to go take a picture with my $0.50 Canon digital camera while listening to tunes on my $0.25 iPod.

The K boys are in the forefront of innovation in their niche. And even outside of it, as in the case of the new "Rush." That costs money. Judging by what I got, it's money well spent. The only thing that torques me is having to deal with the urge to upgrade when they do something like this! Those guys have no mercy.

Way to go, David!

David I.

[STEVE POTTS]

David I:

better check you calculator...your kirkham would be $30 per pound x 2500 pounds...$75000. I dont know where you get $3000???

Its just interesting that some finished goods cost $7/pound and others $60+ per pound. A company can charge whatever they want for their finished goods. I'm just pointing out that the cost of raw materials for these blocks are a drop in the bucket.

[David Kirkham]

xlr8or,

Thank you for your kind words! I hope lightning doesn't strike this block! Damage can be re-plated quite easily. I don't think scratches will be a problem to repair. The coating is 0.005 thick/side and I know it can be coated thicker than that if needed.

I imagine you could sleeve the block if someone wanted to. But I don't see any advantages to it.

Steve,

The rear main seal leaking problems are usually because the block was not clean on assembly or the cap doesn't line up. I haven't had a rear main seal leak in quite some time. Now, I have seen lots of intake manifolds and valve covers leak. But by and large I think that is mostly a case of the engines not being put together carefully. We are paying very careful attention to the machining of the block to make sure it is right, straight, and square.

That said, some of them do leak despite everyone's best efforts. I guess they are just marking their territory...No Ferrari's allowed!

Ernie,

I am going to pay very close attention to the drain back hole. Good idea!

Commander,

I will treat the ribs in the valley in a later post. I have to run right now and I wanted to reply before the list got too unmanageable. But, it is something we have looked into for a lot of years.

olddog,

I got the idea for aluminum main bearing caps from the Rolls Royce Merlin. Now that is an engine that takes an incredible amount of abuse and HAS to keep running. I figured if they would work in a Merlin, then they could work for us as well. Not to mention, modern engines (including F1 motors) now have aluminum main caps. I have always wondered about the different coefficients of thermal expansion and how that has to play havoc on bearing clearances. That may not be such a problem in a drag motor as the race if over with a few revoloutions of the motor. A street/race motor has time to heat soak and cause problems. Admittedly, I don't know much about drag motors as that isn't our bag. Very few of our customers drag race and those that do obviously don't do it seriously so it is not a priority for us.

Ibr8k4vetts,

My mistake. Originally we were going to drill the oil galley up the head bolt like the original blocks but that caused many problems with the water jackets. We are still trying to get around that problem, but I think we will just stick with the push rod oiling system--ie, no capability for solids for now.

HighPlainesDrifter,

Thank you for your kind words. Currently, we are going to be very happy with 700-800 hp for a street motor.

Aussie Mike,

You are right. We looked extensively into plating and longgevity and we came to the conclusion there wasn't a problem. Now, we just need to prove that on the dyno.

Rick Parker,

If we can make something as nice as Porsche, we will be happy!

Commander,

I will address the rib question shortly (gotta run). But as for your question of different block heights, I am sorry I missed that. It was not intentional. We will not be offering different deck heights. Even though is it CNC and milled from a billet and in theory we could change anything we wanted...

There are over a MILLION pieces of code to make this block. It has over 10,000 different surfaces. For the small market of those who want a taller deck height it is not worth it to us to do the changes.

Thank you all for your comments. It helps us to make a better product!

I will answer more questions when I return,

David