Announcing New Kirkham Billet Aluminum 427 Block

[rsimoes]

Why does it have to be made of wood first?

[cobrarkc]

If you are making a a block that is not like the original in design or appearance, why limit it to 4.25 bore size? You can do anything you want at this stage. Bigger is always better!

[wizard man]

david if it at all matters dont ever be a (SELL OUT) aka made in china you guys have built a kick ass car i would hate to ever here my investment be called a (real repilca)

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Steve,

I know you are just joking and it is interesting to look at raw material costs.

Actually, you can not buy aluminum for $1.50/pound. Forgings are more like $3-$5/pound and that does not include the price of tooling. We currently pay $2.25 for extrusion (not forgings) and over $3 for plate--when you can find it. The forging we had made was almost $2000.

Then add:

$125,000 milling machine
$100,000 in tooling, cutter, holders, etc.
$50,000 in CAD/CAM software
200 hours of design time
200 hours of programming
100 hours of proofing--(so far)

and I haven't even paid to turn on the lights yet, paid for opportunity costs, or received a guarantee that it will actually work and people will buy it.

If you already own the milling machine, most of the tooling, software, then you're mainly out the labor design/program/troubleshooting time for an investment.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by rsimoes

Why does it have to be made of wood first?

It is very common to build prototypes out of a material that is cheaper and easier on the tooling, which saves money and time. Wood is not the most dimentionally stable material that would give the most exact work, but I'm sure adaquate for the intended purpose. It's near impossible to design something this complicated, and have it come out perfect the first try.

[Commander]

Originally Posted by cobrarkc

If you are making a a block that is not like the original in design or appearance, why limit it to 4.25 bore size? You can do anything you want at this stage. Bigger is always better!

How about a 12" deck Kaase 815" with hemi heads...



Details and another picture here:
1601 HP, NA (but with 4 stage NO2 in reserve)

You know, I don't see any ribs in that valley. Maybe they really aren't needed.

[David Kirkham]

cobrarkc,

BIGGER is better. But in this case, 4.25 is the largest bore the tooling for the plating will allow. If we sell a zillion (well maybe a few 20-30 of the blocks), we will probably pay the tooling for a larger bore size. The tooling is expensive, however.

olddog,

You are exactly right! With a million pieces of code, even a 0.1% error leaves 1000 errors. It is MUCH more complicated than many people realize. Tool clearance is the biggest problem. You don't realize x tool is too long, too short, hits a fixture, chatters...the list of problems is endless. Crashing in wood makes you look like a cave man trying to start a fire with friction...crashing in aluminum can cost you $10,000 for a new spindle.

Gotta run, delivering a car today but I will answer some of the other questions soon.

David

[David Kirkham]

Commander,

Just saw your pic! Wow, that baby must take off like a rocket. Does it come with an extra diaper?

That is one bad looking machine. How fast does it go? I assume it is a 1/4 mile baby. WAY COOL..

David

[Tinker51]

Saw others mention it but I wanted to throw my hat in the ring too.
I want a wooden block.
If you ever decide to do some or even just to get rid of one of your test articles let me know.

[David Kirkham]

Tinker51

There has been SEVERAL people who want wooden blocks. I will look into it. Unfortunately, the mill time for a block is quite long and the blocks alone cost us about $200--for popular which is a pretty cheap wood.

But, we are willing to sell anything and keep you guys happy. Like I said, I will look more into it.

What kind of wood do you guys want?

David

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Tinker51

There has been SEVERAL people who want wooden blocks. I will look into it. Unfortunately, the mill time for a block is quite long and the blocks alone cost us about $200--for popular which is a pretty cheap wood.

But, we are willing to sell anything and keep you guys happy. Like I said, I will look more into it.

What kind of wood do you guys want?

David

Cheerleader's still waiting on the copper pans.

[Excaliber]

Psssst, David, do you mean 'poplar', which is a popular wood used for indoors but tends to rot easily if left outside....

[Lew Ledyard]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Tinker51


What kind of wood do you guys want?

David

...uhmm, will somebody please buy David a slang dictionary?

[Tinker51]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Tinker51

There has been SEVERAL people who want wooden blocks. I will look into it. Unfortunately, the mill time for a block is quite long and the blocks alone cost us about $200--for popular which is a pretty cheap wood.

But, we are willing to sell anything and keep you guys happy. Like I said, I will look more into it.

What kind of wood do you guys want?

David

I posed the type of wood question to a friend who is a wood guy. I asked about which wood would be most stable and resistant to cracking down the road. I'll let you know what he says.

[Bunkie314]

The kind of wood that my wife likes.

I mean,..

The kind of wood that she would like in the living room,.. er. Um.

What ever looks nice.

[David Kirkham]

Ernie,

I have no idea how to spell woody things. I can only spell arruminum.

As for the rest of your guys...

I should have known better.

David

[BossCER]

David,
I hope you will reconsider the bore sizes available. It is a product that I would consider for a future project providing providing we can get some serious cubic inches out of it. I once made the mistake of being hung up on the number (428 CJ) for a project and regret it still today. Like they say, there is no substitute for cubic inches. I believe you could greatly expand your market by giving this some serious consideration.

Good luck!

[Commander]

Originally Posted by BossCER

David,
I hope you will reconsider the bore sizes available. It is a product that I would consider for a future project providing providing we can get some serious cubic inches out of it. I once made the mistake of being hung up on the number (428 CJ) for a project and regret it still today. Like they say, there is no substitute for cubic inches. I believe you could greatly expand your market by giving this some serious consideration.

Good luck!

There are two ways to approach this plea:
1) Ask for an option for sleeves; if sleeved, you could make YOUR block ANY bore you want.
2) Convince the Kirkhams that making a larger bore block would require the removal of MORE of the billet aluminum making the block even LIGHTER.

I'd just bore out the block and install honking big sleeves, but that's just me.

[lovehamr]

Allot of us with Boss302s and other small blocks are having our engines machined for the newer one piece rear main seal as well. It does necessitate the removal of the "slinger" from the crank, but ease of maintenance and no marking of territory seem to make it more than worth it. I don't know what would have to be done for an FE but if it's as easy as it is on the small block it would be worth it. You may want to ask Keith about it, I'm sure he's at least done a few small blocks this way. Just figured I'd throw that in.
Steve

[David Kirkham]

Jamo,

I thought you wanted a copper mirror or something?

Ernie,

Sorry I can't spell!

BossCER,

We aren't hung up on originality. If people want it, GREAT; if people want something cooler, like more inches in their motor, GREAT. We try to offer parts to a wide range of customers. But, if there is a big call for it, we will tool up to plate the bores bigger. How big do you guys want? I have heard 4.375 is about the limit because of the bore centers.

Commander,

We will look into an option for sleeves later in the production. I think it is probably a good idea.

lovehamr,

I will call Keith on the new seal design. I agree, we might as well make things better.

David