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05-16-2002, 05:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Shelby Twp.,
MI
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance - 514CID
Posts: 28
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Not Ranked
"Jumpy" ammeter ???
I've found a heck of a strange issue with my (FORD) charging system in my 514.
The first time I took my car out this year I noticed the ammeter always showed my system discharging. I found out two things:
1) Battery was load tested and I had a bad cell. I bought a new one.
2) Regulator was dead. The field always showed 0V. I bought a new one.
At least the system was "attempting" to charge now - but I have the following issue:
At about 1600 r.p.m., my ammeter needle bounces (a few times per second) between -3A and +25A.
At idle it sits at about -3A. At 1200 it finally crosses 0. At anything over 2500 r.p.m. it sits at about +3A.
I also have a fairly new alternator (1G type - 80A). I have also tried 3 gauges. They all read about the same. One is a lab-grade gauge I borrowed from work.
The regulator field signal is bouncing between 5V and 8V at 1600 r.p.m. which seems suspect - but it is brand new. At idle it shows about 10V (stable) and at 3 grand it shows about 4V (stable). That seems right - except for the "bouncing" near 1600. I just can't see how a regulator would fail in that mode.
Outside of the jumpy charging/discharging near 1600, it looks like I have a problem charging at idle as well. This problem is with no lights on and no fans on.
My grounds look good. I even went so far as to make a new harness at work. No luck.
I'm curious about the following if somebody has a minute to respond:
1) Has ANYBODY ever seen this?
2) Could somebody please tell me what their pulley set ratios or diameters are? I have an aluminum set but they are not March's. I'm trying to get an idea of the minimum alternator rpm's usually required to charge.
If anybody is interested: My regulator is marked IASF (maybe not that order). I is connected to ignition. A is connected to battery. S is connected to the stator on the alternator (but since I don't have a charging light it doesn't matter.) I've also tried disconnecting it. F is connected to the field on the alternator. The ground leg on the alternator is tied to the case of the regulator. The case shows no resistance to the chassis ground.
Thanks for any ideas.
__________________
"There's nothing in my garage worth
your life."
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05-16-2002, 05:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Olympia/Lacey,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: West Coast. 514 / 6 speed Richmond overdrive
Posts: 1,981
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Not Ranked
I just skimmed over your post, but...
It sounds as if you have a bad alternator? Have you tried swapping it out? Maybe you could try an upgraded one (I went with a high output chrome)
The trouble with these sorts of problems is that often you replace something like the regulator, but then it is immediately damaged by the (bad) alternator, etc.......so you may want to use a new regulator too, before you turn the key.
Hope that helps
__________________
James Madison, father of the Constitution, said, "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." He also said, "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare..."
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05-16-2002, 07:35 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: so cal,
Cal
Cobra Make, Engine: I used to fix them for a living
Posts: 2,563
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Not Ranked
I've seen so many ticking ammeters on Superformance's, I quit worrying. There has been no lifespan differences of any electrical components. They would do it with most any alternator and swapping ammeters and/or regulators did nothing. Take the 3" pulluy off the alternator and put the stock one back on, if you put aftermarket alum. pulleys on. CHECK YOUR GROUD WIRES. the frame to motor cable usually needs to have the paint scraped off the frame "tab". Depending on what # your car is, the chassis ground wire for the wiring loom may be piggybacking the battery ground cable. Check under the carpet between the battery box and the taillamp. If the little brown wire is o the same metric hex head bolt as the battery cable, move the brown wire down to the quickjack monting bracked below there. SPF moved it there later.
__________________
In a fit of 16 year old genius, I looked down through the carb while cranking it to see if fuel was flowing, and it was. Flowing straight up in a vapor cloud, around my head, on fire.
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05-16-2002, 08:14 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Shelby Twp.,
MI
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance - 514CID
Posts: 28
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Not Ranked
Thanks for the ideas guys.
Mr. Fixit,
My SPF is #505. The brown wire must have already been moved to the quickjack by that point. I just checked.
I wasn't aware of this frame to engine cable. Where can I find this "tab" that I should check for paint?
I am a bit concerned with longevity because it seems premature to lose a battery, alternator and regulator all in 2 1/2 years of life (2300 miles).
Thanks again.
__________________
"There's nothing in my garage worth
your life."
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05-16-2002, 08:16 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: so cal,
Cal
Cobra Make, Engine: I used to fix them for a living
Posts: 2,563
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Not Ranked
On the passenger side, on the framerail, under the hood, next to the header / sidepipe flange. Usually bolted to the bellhousing.
__________________
In a fit of 16 year old genius, I looked down through the carb while cranking it to see if fuel was flowing, and it was. Flowing straight up in a vapor cloud, around my head, on fire.
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05-23-2002, 05:11 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Shelby Twp.,
MI
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance - 514CID
Posts: 28
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Not Ranked
Well,
I've verified my ground connections - even adding another from the regulator to the frame and still nothing.
Next I'll try the pulley, but I'm having a heck of a time finding one with the offset (and small diameter) I need. The stock pulley sits tight up against the alternator fan.
Am I the only guy who would need to run a tiny pulley on the alternator? The stock one is about 1 3/4" in diameter (inside). Very small.
If anybody could respond, please comment on these pulley sizes (they are outside DIA). This is my current (malfunctioning) configuration.
crank 5 5/8"
water pump 6 1/2"
alternator 3 7/16"
I don't know who made the aluminum pulleys. They are not March. From what I can tell, the ratios should be fine for street use.
Thanks ahead of time for any thoughts, guys.
__________________
"There's nothing in my garage worth
your life."
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05-23-2002, 07:03 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: so cal,
Cal
Cobra Make, Engine: I used to fix them for a living
Posts: 2,563
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Not Ranked
Sounds silly, but have you checked the wiring and connecors at the ammeter? All current from the alternator goes through it before reaching the battery, heck, bypass it and connect a decent voltmeter to test, should see the needle move away from 14 volts as it charges or drains the battery..
__________________
In a fit of 16 year old genius, I looked down through the carb while cranking it to see if fuel was flowing, and it was. Flowing straight up in a vapor cloud, around my head, on fire.
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05-31-2009, 04:37 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
Posts: 3,841
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Not Ranked
Replace the amp meter with a volt meter
trudelit First off, I don't own a SPF car but a charging system is a charging system. To start with your amp gauge is a 60 amp, plus to minus sides? if yes IMO the ALT is putting out too much ampage through the gauge. I run a 70 amp alt in my car and everything except the starter cables seam to go through this gauge. It takes spikes in the 100 amp range when things are turning on. The original car ran a 45-60 system max. I am going to a 120amp charging system. I am replacing the amp meter with a voltage gauge. If you think about it, you don't see any more cars running amp gauges, they have all gone to volts. It's simple to hook up, you can splice or bolt the wires togeather behind the old gauge. This will tell you better about how you charging system is working. You want to see about a 13.5-14.3 steady range. Autometer makes a cobra gauge that looks like an orginal You are spinning under size pulleys and this is causing your charging problem too. You need a 1-1 ratio for the alt and water pump to work in the correct specs. If you can get the speed up on your alt this will also solve your problem. ASP in Texas can make you a custom crank pulley in 48 hours. This may be the cheaper way to go. I ran march pulleys and had the same problem at idle withthe system not charging and the motor running a little hot. Good luck Rick L.
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05-31-2009, 05:10 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,889
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Not Ranked
Diligence
Dang, Rick. Diligence must be your middle name -- that thread is 7 years old.
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05-31-2009, 05:32 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
Posts: 3,841
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Not Ranked
I am still sleeping
patrickt I am still sleeping. New job is got me on a 12 hour work day, but it's money. I don't know why this thread came up in shop talk as new?? Rick L.
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05-31-2009, 07:52 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,889
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE
New job is got me on a 12 hour work day, but it's money.
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Good. I like to see you paying more taxes for social programs that help lazy bums and worthless indigents.
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06-01-2009, 12:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Jacksonville,
FL
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham #570 w Shelby FE
Posts: 1,009
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Not Ranked
There's a bug, Shop talk comes up sorted by name instead of last post. Keep forgetting to report it.
I'll drop a note to Jamo.
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