Best way to proceed with improving up 427 Windsor street setup

[DAVID GAGNARD]

The work on the car and tune from Oltoffs reflect the current condition of the car as all that took place in 2009. When the previous owner bought it he had it sent to Dennis to work through the car and get it right. According to the previous owner, records and local cobra guys...nothing on the car has been changed since it left Dennis.
Quote:

If everything is supposed to be the same as when Olthoff tuned and did the chassis dyno, then something has happened to the engine since 2009 that has made it "lose" about 100hp........ I don't think the compression numbers are it and with only 11,000 or so miles on it,it shouldn't be worn out and due for a rebuild........

You need to verify the cam/stroke and a few other things to see exactly what you have....

David

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

If everything is supposed to be the same as when Olthoff tuned and did the chassis dyno, then something has happened to the engine since 2009 that has made it "lose" about 100hp........ I don't think the compression numbers are it and with only 11,000 or so miles on it,it shouldn't be worn out and due for a rebuild........

You need to verify the cam/stroke and a few other things to see exactly what you have....

David

David, I don't disagree. Previous post was just explaining the timeline and where the Oltoff work for in. We will definitely be verifying as we go through it

[madmaxx]

my guess is the cam was changed in the past for a more street able tune. higher torque at the expense of horsepower.

[Jerry Clayton]

Why don't you try it with a 950 carb again? 200cfm differance is a lot of differance--------

[Ace23]

Just a quick note. I came across some pictures of the engine when it was on the engine dyno at Keith craft back in 2004. The intake in the picture is the victor jr that is currently on the car. Looks like we can rule out the intake being changed as previously thought. I guess the mention of the different manifold n the build sheet was a typo.

[Jerry Clayton]

950 carb?

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

950 carb?

Originally tuned with Holley 750. Previous owner went to the Davinci and then to a vacuum secondary street avenger 770. I changed it to the QF 750 and had it dyno tuned

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

950 carb?

I am running 858 CFM carb custom built by Pro Systems on a BBF 482 , so at first glance a 950 seems to be a lot for an SBF regardless of the cubes and cam you may have . Just sayin'..

[scottj]

750, 850, 950 does not refer to the progression in size one would think. A 950 has an 850 throttle plate (1-3/4") and a 750 venture (1-3/8"). An 850 is actually a bigger carb as it has a 1-9/16" venture. The 750 has a 1-11/16" throttle plate. I've always run a 750 or a 950 on big small blocks on the street and usually the 750.

IMO this motor begs for a large solid roller...

[SPF1061]

I have been following this thread and have found very little info/suggestions regarding the original question. I would like to steer it back in that direction for a moment. I own a Roush 427R with an AED HO-Modified 750 cfm carb that is dialed in. I am running 4" stainless specialties mufflers. I tried the larger diameter SPF headers, but the torque lost down low more than offset the the free-er breathing I got at the very top end. Actually lost hp and a couple of tenths off et. The car runs well with no issues. (11:30-11:50 sets depending on weather). The issue is simply that I have become accustomed to this much power and want more. What would the informed reader suggest to take this engine to the next level without destroying it's street manners. I do not want to go to a solid cam. Any suggestions?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by SPF1061

I have been following this thread and have found very little info/suggestions regarding the original question. I would like to steer it back in that direction for a moment. I own a Roush 427R with an AED HO-Modified 750 cfm carb that is dialed in. I am running 4" stainless specialties mufflers. I tried the larger diameter SPF headers, but the torque lost down low more than offset the the free-er breathing I got at the very top end. Actually lost hp and a couple of tenths off et. The car runs well with no issues. (11:30-11:50 sets depending on weather). The issue is simply that I have become accustomed to this much power and want more. What would the informed reader suggest to take this engine to the next level without destroying it's street manners. I do not want to go to a solid cam. Any suggestions?

Forced induction..........

BTW: solid roller camshafts are fairly maintenance free compared to the old solid camshafts of yesteryear......
On my race engine (331 stroker) I ran a solid roller cam for 8 seasons and once a year would "run" the valves and more often than not,only made a slight adjustment on 1/3 of them, the rest were just fine...

david

[jhv48]

Nitrous or forced induction are your next steps if you want to maintain proper street manners.

But, your tires won't let you use most of the power until you get to fourth gear.

[RET_COP]

If your only producing about 530HP from a 427 you have not experienced the full satisfying power of a well build 427. Something is very mismatched. Get the right parts and tune and if you get the true 585 you not only will pull from 2000rpms, it will scare you at 6500rpms in a 2500 lb. car.
I have a 351 with the right parts all sourced out to matched and I'm at 490FWHP or 1.4HP/CI. I can pull from 2000 rpms. to 6400rpms. 1.4HP/CI in a 427 is 597HP. Get your Carb, Intake, Heads, valvetrain,cam, and exhaust to match and you won't be disapointed, trust me.
I have great street manners also and you will too, and good gas mileage in the highway.
The easy way out is power adders. Like what was already said they work also, but you said you want the lumpy radical sound of a windsor, my advice will give you all of that

[Bernica]

IMHO, adding NOS or whatever is the chicken way out. Will give you more power but not solving the current issue and may even break something sooner.
My 2c

[RET_COP]

Agree Bernica, N/A all the way !!

[RET_COP]

too much duration and I would rather see a 108 to 110 LSA, the 112* plus your duration kills the low end and makes the cam seem bigger for the 427, it's all wrong IMO.
110 advanced to 107 with duration's 240 to 250 would be much better and you'd be making more power in the desired rpm range for that 427.
Unless of course your buzzing it with the right heads and intake, but then, there goes the street manners.

[madmaxx]

They cam specs in Ace motor is very very very close to another large distributor of stroked 427's which many use without issue. My guess is the cam originally speced has been changed.

[blykins]

I don't think I know of anyone that would use that large of a hydraulic roller in that size of an engine. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my 482 FE's, with almost 60 cubes more displacement, only need 248 @ .050" to peak the horsepower at around 6000.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by blykins

I don't think I know of anyone that would use that large of a hydraulic roller in that size of an engine. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, my 482 FE's, with almost 60 cubes more displacement, only need 248 @ .050" to peak the horsepower at around 6000.

What about a large solid roller. Speaking in terms of performance only, not maintenance, reliability, or liability when Joe Average breaks it and bashes the builder all over the net.

[blykins]

I'm a big solid roller fan....

I think the situation here is that the cam is so large that the engine has no bottom end.....and a large hydraulic roller that will turn rpms requires some specialized parts to let it do that....IF the cylinder heads will support it as well.

Keep in mind that a 254-260° @ .050" solid roller cam would probably peak at 6800-7000. That's about where this engine would want to run if it could.