Tko600 Warning!!!!

[kayakjack]

Somebody is not telling the truth here. Fordfan69 says in his first post he broke it at the track. Keisler says he has a letter from him saying it was the street. I'm not sure it makes much if any difference where it got broken, but in all of these deals you have to make a judgement about who is telling the truth. As far as I'm concerned, the party that is fibbing about this issue should just go away. I don't believe any of the rest of what they say.

Keisler, if you scan Fordfan69s letter saying it was the street and post it here, that would end it for me.

Jack

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

I get it. You think he broke the transmission by not using it correctly. You think he told you he was accelerating down the road, then later said he had the car at a track, and this makes your case that it was misused...because it was at a track. Well hell, I'd leave that part out in my story too. Why? Because you'd jump to conclusions.

I get it. He raced it. It broke. Maybe he broke it. I just don't agree that this makes any difference from a customer service perspective. Bottom line is you have an extremely unhappy customer and are in a position where you could solve the problem at a minimal cost and inconvenience to both of you. Instead, you've spent considerable time and resources pointing the finger in order to not warranty the product. He has to R&R the thing and presumably pay half of the shipping at a minimum...nobody does that for fun; I just don't see the motive or what he has to gain here. Your cost on the parts and labor is far less than what you've lost already by creating an unhappy customer. I'd just fix it and be done with it; or get all your stuff back and show him the door. If for no other reason than to stop my company name from being displayed in questionable light.

1st question I have to ask is are dating this guys's sister?

Seriously there are alot of things that aren't clear here. We brought the transmission back here. A Tremec rep and a member of our engineering staff
looked over the transmission. We found the problem we were told by Tremec it wasn't covered. We offered at our expense the labor and a wholesale price on the parts. He shipped it to us we shipped it back to him free of charge per his instructions. This is the 3rd time I have stated this. Are you reading between the lines only commiting to memory what you want too. A guy earlier posted about electronic parts eluding to the fact that it was the customers fault yet he replaced it no problem. When your dealing with a couple of 3 dollar parts, I would do it too. We are talking about several hundreds of dollars worth parts. This problem never occurs I could see it if it was on a regular basis. Even after the fact we found out he was trying to deceive us we still offered to fix it. The offer still stands. I sincerly hope if something like this happens to you, you will fight like the big dog you are in this fight. My kudos to you

[Greg Haile]

Keislergene,

Fair enough. This was the first negative post I've seen on Keisler and time will certainly tell. This group is fiercely loyal to those companies who stand behind their product, and highly intolerant of those that do not. I have a couple of months before my car is on the road and look forward to the TKO performing to my wallet's expectations. So good or bad it will be posted here and if by some remote chance there is problem, I'll call you first.

Greg

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

Keislergene,

Fair enough. This was the first negative post I've seen on Keisler and time will certainly tell. This group is fiercely loyal to those companies who stand behind their product, and highly intolerant of those that do not. I have a couple of months before my car is on the road and look forward to the TKO performing to my wallet's expectations. So good or bad it will be posted here and if by some remote chance there is problem, I'll call you first.

Greg

Thanks Greg

[Excaliber]

There was an offer made to fix it with no labor charges and discounted parts cost and this despite Tremec themselves would not warranty the repair. I'm not sure why Tremec denied the warranty, something about 'warranty time' ran out?

Hard to imagine a trans would simply strip third gear from simply running hard, no excess horse power in this case. UNLESS, it was a defective gear to begin with. If thats the case, it's likley this is not the first and won't be the last if Tremec had\has a production problem with that particular gear.

Other reports of 3rd gear being stripped linked to inferior gears?

I don't know, sounds like a reasonable offer to me, all things considered.

[KEISLERGENE]

I have the letter scanned but it is over the attachment file size how else can I put it on here?

[Excaliber]

Put in your GALLERY, click on the CAMERA ICON and select "UPLOAD PHOTOS" (upper right of the screen). Home · Search · Profile · Upload Photos

From there any of us can then post it directly here on this thread using the 'insert image' option.

As far as "Warranty Void is used for racing" just about every manufacturer has that little disclaimer attached, it's common sense. As in THIS case that doesn't mean they don't try to find some common ground to work with you on these issues. But you would be a fool to say, "Warranty good no matter how hard you race it".

[trularin]

Strange, I have all the docs from my TKO600 and I don't recall them limiting my use.

I agree with a lot of what Greg said, we generally let our brothers and sisters know if we have had a bad experience and we also make it clear when we have a good experience. It is part of the fibre that keeps this club together.

Things that are presented with any element of deception or ill-will, are looked over with an assortment of personalities and opinions.

I am not saying this person or that person is not entirely upfront about anything, but I am tired of crap shoveled in the name of truth.

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

1st question I have to ask is are dating this guys's sister?

No, and I'm not posting from his IP address either.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

Seriously there are alot of things that aren't clear here. We brought the transmission back here. A Tremec rep and a member of our engineering staff
looked over the transmission. We found the problem we were told by Tremec it wasn't covered.

So Tremec decided not to honor the warranty claim. In other words, you won't honor the claim because they won't. Got it. If Tremecs biggest distributor said "Hey guys, we want to make good on this for this customer even though the guy probably broke it...help us out here", are you telling me they'd say NO? You're right, there's more to the story.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

We offered at our expense the labor and a wholesale price on the parts. He shipped it to us we shipped it back to him free of charge per his instructions. This is the 3rd time I have stated this. Are you reading between the lines only commiting to memory what you want too.

Nope, I'm not committing any of it to memory. That's what the computer is for. What I'm suggesting is you should just fix the thing free of charge and make this go away in the sake of good customer service. Why? It hurts you less. Now I'm repeating myself. It must be contageous.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

A guy earlier posted about electronic parts eluding to the fact that it was the customers fault yet he replaced it no problem. When your dealing with a couple of 3 dollar parts, I would do it too. We are talking about several hundreds of dollars worth parts.

That was me. Now it's you who have a memory problem. IT IS contageous! And, by the way, the product sells for $479, and to give one away costs me over $300; which I've done 6 times since the product introduction in 1999. I've recouped much more than that in advertisement-free referral sales.

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

This problem never occurs I could see it if it was on a regular basis. Even after the fact we found out he was trying to deceive us we still offered to fix it. The offer still stands. I sincerly hope if something like this happens to you, you will fight like the big dog you are in this fight. My kudos to you

If you truly believe he grenaded the thing, or could even PROVE it, I still say it's cheaper to offer the benefit of the doubt and fix the thing free of charge, make a happy customer...and get referrals and kudos instead of this kind of attention. Maybe it's a matter of principle to you. Personally, I'm not that proud...if it costs me money, I do whatever costs me the least in the long run...even if it means burying my pride to make someone else happy.

[trularin]

For anyone that wants to ask, Tremec can be called and you may ask.

The warranty is 90 days UNLIMITED.

"This is a performance transmission" As I was just told.

[KEISLERGENE]

Look at my pictures ther is a copy of the letter.

[ByronRACE]

For those that don't wanna click:

[Don]

Without taking sides in this situation, a few thoughts:

* The Public Affairs/Relations professionals will most always recommend to take charge of the situation by immeadiately ending the discussion on a positive note. Might not be correct in one of the parties eyes, but is there more damage on a long term basis to reputations, future business, etc that could be created ......won the battle but lost the war. Had Senator Kerry decided to immediately end the controversy, would the recent incident gone away rather than become the topic which has filled the newscasts over the past few days. Privately, may not have agreed, but better to move on rather than keeping the story alive.

In business, reviving a hard earned, long term postive reputation is extremely difficult, when a single incident , with or without merit, gets all the press.

* The WSJ had a recent section on " Customer Service " One of the points mentioned is the " experience " in total. not just individual points such as how quickly the phone was answered. From the WSJ:


Traditionally, many businesses have defined customer service with a simple mantra: "The customer is always right." Got a problem? We'll fix it.

But over time, customer service has evolved. Deferential treatment is still part of the relationship, but in an increasingly competitive marketplace, many businesses aren't waiting for their customers to make a complaint or have a query. They're doing their best to figure out what the customer wants and to provide it before any questions or problems arise.

"Customer service can be defined in lots of different ways," says Chris Denove, a vice president at J.D. Power & Associates, the McGraw-Hill Cos. unit that conducts customer-satisfaction surveys. "It's being broadly defined more and more as the voice of the customer."

[ByronRACE]

The letter says he reached for 3rd and it just seemed like the engine freewheeled. Like wow man...it just wasn't there.

Was that before or after the horrendous CLANK and GRIND sound that surely occurred sometime previously?

LOL, so yeah...he sent you a "I was on my way to church..." letter. So what, you sold a performance transmission to a guy for a performance application...of course he's going to drive it hard...that's what it's for.

Is this really about punishing someone for sending you a sugar coated, complimentary letter that contains less than the truth about the failure circumstance?

What if the letter said, "Enclosed is my transmission. I was hard on the throttle in 3rd gear at the 1000ft mark in the last round of eliminations, and the POS grenaded. You guys cost me a grand, thanks a lot. Car makes 599 foot-lbs, trans should have held it...fix this POS under warranty, and be quick about it." Would you have honored it then? No? Why? Didn't like his tone? It was truthful wasn't it?

At least the guy in the letter was complimentary and WAS a good customer at that point.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

No, and I'm not posting from his IP address either.









If you truly believe he grenaded the thing, or could even PROVE it, I still say it's cheaper to offer the benefit of the doubt and fix the thing free of charge, make a happy customer...and get referrals and kudos instead of this kind of attention. Maybe it's a matter of principle to you. Personally, I'm not that proud...if it costs me money, I do whatever costs me the least in the long run...even if it means burying my pride to make someone else happy.

This is not a matter of pride. We are more than fair will all of our customers.

This attention is unwarrented.

Gene

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

The letter says he reached for 3rd and it just seemed like the engine freewheeled. Like wow man...it just wasn't there.

Was that before or after the horrendous CLANK and GRIND sound that surely occurred sometime previously?

LOL, so yeah...he sent you a "I was on my way to church..." letter. So what, you sold a performance transmission to a guy for a performance application...of course he's going to drive it hard...that's what it's for.

Is this really about punishing someone for sending you a sugar coated, complimentary letter that contains less than the truth about the failure circumstance?

What if the letter said, "Enclosed is my transmission. I was hard on the throttle in 3rd gear at the 1000ft mark in the last round of eliminations, and the POS grenaded. You guys cost me a grand, thanks a lot. Car makes 599 foot-lbs, trans should have held it...fix this POS under warranty, and be quick about it." Would you have honored it then? No? Why? Didn't like his tone? It was truthful wasn't it?

At least the guy in the letter was complimentary and WAS a good customer at that point.

Well I am having to get off the floor. I was laughing at your post so hard I fell. The bottom line we offered a solution he didn't accept. Him trying to sugar coat the situation isn't why they denied the claim. It was because the trans was abused.

We are trully not the bad guys here. We have thousands of satisfied customers these things always get blown and I wish they wouldn't.

I completey understand both sides. I myself would be upset if I had spent this kind of money and I broke it. I would look to blame someone else as well but that doesn't make it right. This day and age people dont take accountabilty for there action they are alway wanting to blame someone else.

I am losing weight getting on and off my soap box today

gene

[kayakjack]

Gene,

Thank you very much for posting Fordfan69s letter.

One's reputation is pretty much all you have thats worth much. Taking a shot at someone's reputation without being 100% upfront, complete and truthful is a very bad thing.

As others have said, there are two sides to most stories. In this one, it looks on the face of it that Fordfan69 told us in his first post that he broke the transmission on the track. Nice entertaining story. In his letter to Keisler it was the street. Nicely detailed story there too. Just different. If Fordfan69 can tell us how these two stories jibe, I'm all ears. Short of that, this is game over with Keisler's reputation intact.

By the way, in post #6, Fordfan69 says "Keisler pretty much turned their back on me". In post #34 Keisler says "we offered him free labor and discounting on the parts to fix his trans."

Now, who do you believe??

Jack

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

Him trying to sugar coat the situation isn't why they denied the claim. It was because the trans was abused.
gene

Fair enough. If you're willing to take the time, can you please define abuse in either your terms, or Tremecs terms.

Skip the the obvious examples (applying 1500ft-lbs through a 600ft-lb transmission, downshifting to 1st at 100mph, etc...)

Does abuse mean taking your car to the track and racing it?

Does abuse mean sidestepping a clutch at redline?

How is abuse objectively determined?

Who has the burden of proof...the customer, or the manufacturer?

After reading this thread, I'm honestly afraid to buy a manual transmission if the burden of proof in situations like this is expected to be with the customer. You can't prove you didn't abuse it. Period.

And, if it comes down to personal reputation as a basis of whether or not to honor a warranty claim on a material purchase, that's pretty scary too. You decide someone is a liar, and poof...warranty void!

[Toby]

I have read this thread with much interest! Let me give some insight to all concerned about these people (Keisler), I am not here to speak about Tremec transmissions one way or another, only Keislers reputation as I have experienced it.

They were extremely pleasant and confident in their abilities when they were taking my money, from that point on it was wrong parts and fiasco after fiasco right up until they tried to deny that they sold me a "kit". They continued their horrible customer service until I finally had to get nasty with them to get them to deliver what they promised.

I also have experience with their brand of "engineering". Which consisted of a halfassed attempt at a bearing spacer that truly was one step above bear skins and stone knives.

I will never under any circumstances purchase anything else from these people and encourage anyone to carry your business elsewhere.

Toby

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

Fair enough. If you're willing to take the time, can you please define abuse in either your terms, or Tremecs terms.

Skip the the obvious examples (applying 1500ft-lbs through a 600ft-lb transmission, downshifting to 1st at 100mph, etc...)

Does abuse mean taking your car to the track and racing it?

Does abuse mean sidestepping a clutch at redline?

How is abuse objectively determined?

Who has the burden of proof...the customer, or the manufacturer?

After reading this thread, I'm honestly afraid to buy a manual transmission if the burden of proof in situations like this is expected to be with the customer. You can't prove you didn't abuse it. Period.

And, if it comes down to personal reputation as a basis of whether or not to honor a warranty claim on a material purchase, that's pretty scary too. You decide someone is a liar, and poof...warranty void!

In this case Johnny misses the shift dumps the clutch when the gear is not fully engaged. Then drives the car home with the trans all screwed up and does even more damage. calls us and says I was going to the store and third gear is gone. Mean while his buddy post on the moparts forum about a guy that lost 3rd gear on the track this weekend and low and behold it was Greg.

No one is calling names here this is a case of glutony someone wanted something for nothing. I have proof he was misleading. you have read it in black and white.

Shifting gears is not for everyone, its just the only way to go.

There are way to many people out there burning rubber and having fun with these transmissions for you to be scewed by this guy. If you dont buy one from us at least buy one from someone else.

It is definatly better when you stick it !