Tko600 Warning!!!!

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by trularin

As far as I know,

Not possible to have the same DNS and not be the same.

Agreed; at least the same facility. Those 2 posts from the same IP came from the same subscriber line. If not the same PC, at least the same facility.

[Excaliber]

I have a couple of people that log onto this computer and use it. While THEY have the same IP as me, they are not ME. Simple...

[ByronRACE]

Anonymous Cobra's Post got Deleted. Here it is for anyone missing it:

anonymouscobra said:

Very good thread but I am not sure where to start my response. First off lets go with your initial complaint over a company not standing behind a warranty. I use a kiesler 5 speed in my car and love it with no issues at all. I have also raced this vehicle time and time again and no isssues. Now on warranty Keisler stands behind their warranty and that is 6months on a kit purchase. Think about it though if you are a company you dont warranty racing if you did you would be iggnorant. No one in the industry says take my stuff to the track if you break it from misuse driver error or abuse i will replace it no because that doesnt exist. Tremec has a 90 day warranty and that is it I had put one in my 99 gt and had an issue outside of that but hell I read the warranty so I knew that I was out of pocket. Look at it this way if you buy a race motor they dont warranty that motor if you over rev the damn thing on the track or misuse it. My guess is being the size that Keisler is they would have had a tremec rep look at this transmission to see the damage.

Now did you miss shift or not get all the way into the gate. ??????????????? no one knows because most men wouldnt stand up to admit they may have misshifted or wasnt all the way into the gear and released the clutch. Now as for racing this trans, there are thousands and thousands that are racing these with no issues so..... Sounds to me like its something you did on your behalf. Good luck with this and I feel for you.

Standardtransmission I was wondering isnt Keisler the biggest distributor in the world for Tremec. I did want to clear on ething up my buddy bought a trans direct from tremec and then had a leak on it. Tremec told him to send it to Keisler to get the work done that they were a factory warranty shop. Sent it there trans came back perfect.

Greg wish you the best of luck but I would consider what your looking at. You are trying to fight something thats clearly stated by both companies on this one. Second you have to prove that it was a materials issue and not driver error. Please post let us know what happens.

[Excaliber]

...and another well meaning employee bites the dust.

Man I've been there, sticking up for the boss, using my own experience, somehow crossing the line in the delicate world of being politically correct and just trying to do the right thing.

Don't be to hard on him Keislergene. We recently saw another example of this with an employee\friend of the author of "Cobra Ferrari Wars", well intentioned but wound up sticking his foot in his mouth, turned out OK when the smoke cleared. Stuff happens.

[ByronRACE]

I agree, there are two sides to the story.

But, anonymouscobras post does provide key insight (from within the facility) into the assumptions the company has made and where they believe the burden of proof lies in a situation like this.

I find this disturbing. Apparently, the company expects the CUSTOMER to prove the product wasn't misused. Otherwise, they assume it was and don't honor a claim?

That sounds like a great way to not have to honor any claims at all, doesn't it? It's always possible to misuse a manual transmission, and always IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE it wasn't misused. Very convenient.

And lastly, there are companies that have unconditional lifetime warranties on transmissions. For example, Performance Automatic. I have a client that has blown up his C4 a half dozen times over the years in a twin turbo small block drag car (wheels-up, transbrake stuff)...and each time he just ships it off and they fix it free of charge, no questions asked, no drama, no burden of proof issues...just great customer service.

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

I agree, there are two sides to the story.

But, anonymouscobras post does provide key insight (from within the facility) into the assumptions the company has made and where they believe the burden of proof lies in a situation like this.

I find this disturbing. Apparently, the company expects the CUSTOMER to prove the product wasn't misused. Otherwise, they assume it was and don't honor a claim?

That sounds like a great way to not have to honor any claims at all, doesn't it? It's always possible to misuse a manual transmission, and always IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE it wasn't misused. Very convenient.

And lastly, there are companies that have unconditional lifetime warranties on transmissions. For example, Performance Automatic. I have a client that has blown up his C4 a half dozen times over the years in a twin turbo small block drag car (wheels-up, transbrake stuff)...and each time he just ships it off and they fix it free of charge, no questions asked, no drama, no burden of proof issues...just great customer service.

That company is one of the few. What about the deceptive customer who we offered a cheap solution to fix his trans?

This basically boils down to he missed a shift and screwed the trans up. We offered to fix it at low cost. Tremec denied the warranty claim. We did the best we could and it wasn't good enough. Despite what all of you are thinking how many of you know someone or have a TKO in your car and it's fine.I have guys who race these transmissions on the track without fail it was his mistake. He screwed up take ownership. I wish all of the thousands of Tremec customers went to bat for us like you guys will defend this guy.I know for a fact that customer service is a rare thing these days we all experiance it every where we go.We were going to eat the labor and offered him discounted parts to fix his trans, he refused he wanted more for his mistake. We send out warranty papers they have statments of limitation. He went beyond that period.

I dont mean to ran't but we have all been where this guy is, all of us. We have to suck it up and take it like a man.

I am done Gene

[kayakjack]

Somebody is not telling the truth here. Fordfan69 says in his first post he broke it at the track. Keisler says he has a letter from him saying it was the street. I'm not sure it makes much if any difference where it got broken, but in all of these deals you have to make a judgement about who is telling the truth. As far as I'm concerned, the party that is fibbing about this issue should just go away. I don't believe any of the rest of what they say.

Keisler, if you scan Fordfan69s letter saying it was the street and post it here, that would end it for me.

Jack

[John McMahon]

I like the thinking that "just because you drive it on the track, you're abusing it". Not true.

I drove two different Mustangs using a Tremec 3550 for years, driving them hard without a single problem.

I know morons who drive on the street that should not be allowed to drive anything but a 2 speed PowerGlide. The issue is the driver, not the venue.

I still don't understand why they had to charge you $90 to inspect the box when you were already paying twice the price. For that price, you could have bought a bullet proof Richmond Gear.

[Greg Haile]

Keislergene,

Fair enough. This was the first negative post I've seen on Keisler and time will certainly tell. This group is fiercely loyal to those companies who stand behind their product, and highly intolerant of those that do not. I have a couple of months before my car is on the road and look forward to the TKO performing to my wallet's expectations. So good or bad it will be posted here and if by some remote chance there is problem, I'll call you first.

Greg

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Greg Haile

Keislergene,

Fair enough. This was the first negative post I've seen on Keisler and time will certainly tell. This group is fiercely loyal to those companies who stand behind their product, and highly intolerant of those that do not. I have a couple of months before my car is on the road and look forward to the TKO performing to my wallet's expectations. So good or bad it will be posted here and if by some remote chance there is problem, I'll call you first.

Greg

Thanks Greg

[Excaliber]

There was an offer made to fix it with no labor charges and discounted parts cost and this despite Tremec themselves would not warranty the repair. I'm not sure why Tremec denied the warranty, something about 'warranty time' ran out?

Hard to imagine a trans would simply strip third gear from simply running hard, no excess horse power in this case. UNLESS, it was a defective gear to begin with. If thats the case, it's likley this is not the first and won't be the last if Tremec had\has a production problem with that particular gear.

Other reports of 3rd gear being stripped linked to inferior gears?

I don't know, sounds like a reasonable offer to me, all things considered.

[KEISLERGENE]

I have the letter scanned but it is over the attachment file size how else can I put it on here?

[Excaliber]

Put in your GALLERY, click on the CAMERA ICON and select "UPLOAD PHOTOS" (upper right of the screen). Home · Search · Profile · Upload Photos

From there any of us can then post it directly here on this thread using the 'insert image' option.

As far as "Warranty Void is used for racing" just about every manufacturer has that little disclaimer attached, it's common sense. As in THIS case that doesn't mean they don't try to find some common ground to work with you on these issues. But you would be a fool to say, "Warranty good no matter how hard you race it".

[trularin]

Strange, I have all the docs from my TKO600 and I don't recall them limiting my use.

I agree with a lot of what Greg said, we generally let our brothers and sisters know if we have had a bad experience and we also make it clear when we have a good experience. It is part of the fibre that keeps this club together.

Things that are presented with any element of deception or ill-will, are looked over with an assortment of personalities and opinions.

I am not saying this person or that person is not entirely upfront about anything, but I am tired of crap shoveled in the name of truth.

[trularin]

For anyone that wants to ask, Tremec can be called and you may ask.

The warranty is 90 days UNLIMITED.

"This is a performance transmission" As I was just told.

[Toby]

I have read this thread with much interest! Let me give some insight to all concerned about these people (Keisler), I am not here to speak about Tremec transmissions one way or another, only Keislers reputation as I have experienced it.

They were extremely pleasant and confident in their abilities when they were taking my money, from that point on it was wrong parts and fiasco after fiasco right up until they tried to deny that they sold me a "kit". They continued their horrible customer service until I finally had to get nasty with them to get them to deliver what they promised.

I also have experience with their brand of "engineering". Which consisted of a halfassed attempt at a bearing spacer that truly was one step above bear skins and stone knives.

I will never under any circumstances purchase anything else from these people and encourage anyone to carry your business elsewhere.

Toby

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by Toby

I have read this thread with much interest! Let me give some insight to all concerned about these people (Keisler), I am not here to speak about Tremec transmissions one way or another, only Keislers reputation as I have experienced it.

They were extremely pleasant and confident in their abilities when they were taking my money, from that point on it was wrong parts and fiasco after fiasco right up until they tried to deny that they sold me a "kit". They continued their horrible customer service until I finally had to get nasty with them to get them to deliver what they promised.

I also have experience with their brand of "engineering". Which consisted of a halfassed attempt at a bearing spacer that truly was one step above bear skins and stone knives.

I will never under any circumstances purchase anything else from these people and encourage anyone to carry your business elsewhere.

Toby

Now this is the kind of harrassment I can live with, a legitimate complaint.
and bubba in engineering won't like the comment about the bearskins and stone knives.

Not making light of this gentleman's complaints. We dont offer a complete kit for any Ford other than Mustangs check our site www.keislerauto.com

I am sincerly sorry you had issue's

Gene

[ByronRACE]

Just in case you didn't intentionally miss these questions regarding your warranty policies...

How is "abuse" objectively determined?

Who has the burden of proof...the customer, or the manufacturer?

[KEISLERGENE]

Originally Posted by ByronRACE

Just in case you didn't intentionally miss these questions regarding your warranty policies...

How is "abuse" objectively determined?

Who has the burden of proof...the customer, or the manufacturer?

In black in white from Keisler Automotive Engineering

" This warranty is void if improperly installed, abused in any manner,or used for racing or experimantal purposes."

This is posted on the side bar of our website along with being sent to the customer.

In this case we had clear representation that it was abuse.

Gene

[ByronRACE]

Originally Posted by KEISLERGENE

In black in white from Keisler Automotive Engineering

" This warranty is void if improperly installed, abused in any manner,or used for racing or experimantal purposes."

This is posted on the side bar of our website along with being sent to the customer.

In this case we had clear representation that it was abuse.

Gene

OK, so your warranty is void if your car is ever raced. So did you define "racing"? If not, then street racing, drag racing, road racing, or driving fast in any manner...could be considered racing, right? If that's true, anyone that has ever bought a transmission from you has voided the warranty.

What does "experimental purposes" mean? The transmission in question is designed to be used universally and targeted for rodders. You could argue that any rodder putting that transmission into anything other than an OEM application is doing so "experimentally". Again, that's a convenient way of voiding everyones warranty if you feel fit isn't it?

And back to my original 2 questions...

How is abuse objectively determined? If it's determined at your whim and will, then you can claim abuse for any and all equipment failures can't you?

Who has the burden of proof regarding this alleged "abuse"...the customer, or the manufacturer? If it's the customer, are we expected to prove we didn't abuse a product in the event that it failed? How the hell is a customer going to do that? If it's the manufacturer that proves the abuse occurred, where is the detailed analysis/test report data that shows this was abuse? I, for one, would be comforted to know that such testing actually takes place, and that it is actually objective instead of some guy in back room saying "yep, he slammed 3rd for sure...void his warranty."

I, for one, am not buying a transmisson from a company that puts the burden of proof on the customer. And, if the burden of proof is on the manufacturer, I expect to see a failure analysis report that can hold its own. Otherwise, I'll take my business elsewhere.