Roush Engine Failure – Pictures

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I don't think the OP is supposed to even touch his engine until he hears something from Roush.

C'mon, this isn't a death investigation. A bolt came loose, his shaft broke, and if he said "I took the other valve cover off and found two bolts that were finger tight" I think that's perfectly fine. I wouldn't go overboard on preserving a chain of evidence -- if he has someone else there with him when he looks at the other shaft, and takes photos, that's good enough for me.

[Don]

Not being familiar with Roush on whether there are direct purchases at retail and Dealer purchasers or only Dealer purchases. Was the purchase check made out directly to the Roush Dealer or to Roush ? If made to the Dealer, might suggest they should be providing direct assistance in problem resolution. Would think that a Dealer has a direct phone number which is not available to the general public. Or, is there a provision in the warranty which specifies how to submit claims etc ?

Roush web site mentions response is within 72 hours, when using their formatted form

At some point in time, might want to consider pros/cons, as a precautionary step, documenting, including pictures, time line etc., the situation to all parties and sending by USPS with signature required on the return receipt.

[Excaliber]

2,300 miles just isn't enough to warrant a loose (or several as it seems to be) rocker shaft nut/bolt. Sure, it's always a good idea to check the torque on various bolts as you do your regular maintenance. Like I would have checked my valve clearance in the first year, I might have discovered a loose nut/bolt on the rockers, but might not have been specifically looking for it or going out of my way to check the torque on it. Regardless of mileage/time for warranty this very much smells like a defect in workmanship on Roush's part (just from what testimony we have hear on this thread).

Moving on...

Rocker shaft breakage is some what common on FE's, no big deal usually, no extensive damage usually. The shaft, though broken, is still held mostly in place by the various retainers, you loose valve adjustment, but not enough to damage anything. Simply replace the shaft and your good to go. Typically it's improperly adjusted end stand bolts that lead to a broken shaft, not something in the MIDDLE of the shaft.

The BIGGER question is: What other nut's/bolt's are "loose" somewhere else in the engine? I would be paranoid as heck right about now, wanting to double check everything, even the con rod bolts! Bummer...

[Excaliber]

It could happen to any engine builder who has hired help. Stuff happens and the "owner" only has so much control over wether an employee is having a bad day.

The smaller the shop the more likely it is the owner has better control over who or isn't having a bad day. Which is why, typically, I prefer to deal with smaller shops. But that carries a risk as well (less product out the door, less experience). No easy answer on who to select.

If I was going to spend big buck's on a motor I'd consider Gessford Machine, Keith, B2Motorsports or other guys who have a "local to Club Cobra" kind of feel. I rarely see anyone from Roush posting much around here (or ever?) or sponsoring events directly related to Club Cobra, maybe I'm wrong... But, I like to keep it in the family, better service, closer to home kind of feel (regardless of where they do business).

Rawk, so Comp Cams never saw an FE broken rocker shaft? What? They just got off the boat yesterday?

[vector1]

you would think roush would have enough clout they could go back to harland sharp or whoever the valvetrain is made by and demand a replacement. nice work roush!

[Excaliber]

Why would they do that? Defective rocker arm shaft, when the bolt is loose and came off? Not the shaft's problem, it's the owner getting the shaft here...

[Rick Parker]

Darren:

Broken shafts on FE valvetrain are most certainly not unheard of. As spring pressures and RPM rates escalate it's going to be a potential downfall of the design, that being said think this through. Two things come to mind in reading this and looking at your pictures.

1. Are you certain the stud is secure in the head, is there any chance the threads have pulled in the aluminum head allowing the shaft to flex a minor amout before fracturing? If not read on.......Roush buys the complete Rocker Arm sets from Harland Sharp and uses them to assemble their engines.

2. While Roush is only willing to "Sell you at cost" a replacement set, and since it doesn't appear there is any other visable damage to the valve train other than the fracture in the shaft. AND since Roush is really doing "Nothing" for you warranty wise, (??) why not go to Harland Sharps website and purchase the rocker "Shaft" for their price of $120.75 and save some cash?

Keep an eye on the rocker arms themselves, aluminum when used in a rocker arm work hardens with continuous heat cycles and can become brittle, it is used for this application because of light weight and ease of machining, but is not the best material for the application. While you are repairing this it might be prudent to check ALL the rocker arms individually and the bushings for any sign of galling or potential cracks at the bottom of the bushing bore or at the tips where the pin is secured, and inspect the other shaft as well. Occasionally the pin will begin to migrate in the tip and can cause REAL problems. Retorqe all fasteners and take the wife to dinner on the $$ you saved! It's not a difficult task.

Good luck


http://www.harlandsharp.com/components1.htm#Shafts

[elmariachi]

Today's production cars are not hand built, they are mass produced and prior to that, they are scientifically engineered. So to compare the design and assembly tolerances of a 427 stroker to a Benz 5.5L is not fair. In my opinion (and I ain't no engine builder) anyone who buys a performance engine for these cars, from Roush or anyone else, should err on the side of caution and check things like head and valve train torque.

And your last sentence is most important: With these engines being hand-built, the chance for assembly error is astronomically higher vs an assembly line engine. Why not insure yourself by checking?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

With these engines being hand-built, the chance for assembly error is astronomically higher vs an assembly line engine. Why not insure yourself by checking?

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

Provided that the components being used are specifically compatible, yes.

And to the guy Marvin above who said that he has only adjusted his solid lifter valve lash once in 7500 miles, but suggests that he would expect to freshen his engine at 20k miles, I submit this:

I have adjusted my lifters twice in 5300 miles and if I had to freshen my 427 FE up at 20k miles, I'd give it to the Salvation Army.

[SP01715]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Provided that the components being used are specifically compatible, yes.

And to the guy Marvin above who said that he has only adjusted his solid lifter valve lash once in 7500 miles, but suggests that he would expect to freshen his engine at 20k miles, I submit this:

I have adjusted my lifters twice in 5300 miles and if I had to freshen my 427 FE up at 20k miles, I'd give it to the Salvation Army.

One of the reasons I gave up on high HP boats. Mercury 1075 hp supercharged marine engine has to be freshened every 50 hours at a cost of 25k. The maintenance on my SPF seems like nothing compared to other toys I have owned.

[patrickt]

So you agree with me then that, but for an error in workmanship or materials, a retorque of the valve train is unwarranted?

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Provided that the components being used are specifically compatible, yes.

OK, well then, I'll shut up... for now.

[N2VENOM]

Does anyone have the re- torquing specs for a Shelby block? After having my initial problems with the rocker shaft, I plan to check every fastener within reason.

[Excaliber]

It is prudent to check the valve clearance on a new engine, that is, 1,000 to 2,000 miles. If any valves actually need adjusting, repeat at another 1,000 miles! There is virtually no reason valve adjustment should change significantly, a couple to a few thousands at most. If the valve adjustment is changing dramatically, something is really wrong.

Checking the torque on a rocker shaft, while certainly a good idea with a new engine, should not have to be done on any kind of regular basis, alloy or iron. Like the valve adjustment, it's either going to hold, or not. If not, you gotta a serious problem.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Like the valve adjustment, it's either going to hold, or not. If not, you gotta a serious problem.

Once again, Ernie, you have synthesized the issue down to but a few syllables of unadulterated truth.

[RodKnock]

You say "unwarranted", I say "precautionary". You say tomAYto, I say tomAHto.

For someone who posts threads on literally every superfluous part of his ERA, you would think he would take a few minutes every 1, 2 maybe 3 years and check his valvetrain for abbey-normal wear.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For someone who posts threads on literally every superfluous part of his ERA, you would think he would take a few minutes every 1, 2 maybe 3 years and check his valvetrain for abbey-normal wear.

I have solid lifters (so does ElM., DCDoug, ERA Chas, and others) so my valve covers are off and I'm wrenching on the valve train regularly. What I was trying to hone in on was for the benefit of the hydraulic lifter crowd that are asking themselves "aw man, do I realy have to pull my valve covers and retorque my valve train?" And I submit the answer is still "No." Unless of course, there was poor workmanship or a defect in materials -- and then that would hold true for any part on your car.

[RodKnock]

I think in theory, a hydraulic roller valvetrain should not need any adjustment, BUT, in real life, an FE is not a modern engine and requires precautionary supervision from time to time. Kinda like looking at your Trigo KO's occasionally.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

.... Kinda like looking at your Trigo KO's occasionally.

Uhh-don't you mean Halibrand Magnesium KO's?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Uhh-don't you mean Halibrand Magnesium KO's?

As Jamo would say "Bite me."