Club Cobra Keith Craft Racing  

Go Back   Club Cobra > Cobra Talk Areas > ALL COBRA TALK

Welcome to Club Cobra!  The World's largest non biased Shelby Cobra related site!

  •  » Representation from nearly all Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
  •  » Help from all over the world for your questions
  •  » Build logs for you and all members
  •  » Blogs
  •  » Image Gallery
  •  » Many thousands of members and nearly 1 million posts! 

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

MMG Superformance
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Nevada Classics
Nevada Classics
MMG Superformance
Advertise at CC
Banner Ad Rates
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
MMG Superformance
October 2021
S M T W T F S
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

Kirkham Motorsports

Like Tree31Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:59 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA, PA
Cobra Make, Engine: Look-a-like cobra POS
Posts: 955
Not Ranked     
Default

Sir,

If it would not be much trouble, could we see some pictures?

Please.

Best, Bret.
__________________
B. Ewing
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Sponsored Links
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:24 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 51
Not Ranked     
Default thank you

To Mr. A-Snake . Thank you for posting the link. I wanted to try that but not very good with the computer stuff. No idea how. Jamo I have reprints and if you send me a mailing address for you, I can mail you the actual paper reprint and if it is OK, can you make it appear on this tread like A-Snake did with the cover and table of contents. There are many great photos that I think the people here would enjoy. I am currently preparing a Quick Jack discussion from a lecture I have given about them, before at a local Cobra Club meet. A hint, it also includes a discussion of what original actually means. It is England, the assembly line, is it as arrived at Shelby American, is it after Shelby American modification or prep, is it at the arrival at the selling dealer, or on the showroom floor after dealer prep, or when it left the dealership, with the new owner. I am sad to admit this but about 30 years ago, I was offered and bought an outstandingly original 23,000 miles 1967 Corvette from New Mexico. Original motor, paint, interior etc. etc etc. I bought it to go through the certification process, of NCRS corvette club to learn originality. I felt that the Corvette people were far ahead of the other marques. Alot of unrestored cars existed to evaluate. Even though I had seen 427 Cobras very early on even as new cars, as the years went by most were hammered and really really hammered. Does a new aluminum body, created by a perfect craftsman, of a wrecked and rolled Cobra add or detract from the value. I have been asked to make that decision for a prospective buyers many many time through the years. How important is a totally original frame, or someone's other frame or even an original frame from another car. Think about that one. ----- The Corvette key to be able to define so closely bolt head, clips real tight details, was all the cars were made on the same line at the same Plant, same guy, from the same bucket of bolts. Uniform-consistent for the entire run of 25,000 cars. Not six plants around the country for 1965 GTO's, each with its local OE bolt supplier. Something to think about when you look at Cobras . What AC did, what Shelby did. Former very consistent, latter, very inconsistent through production runs. GM/Corvette big dollars corporation, SA shoestring. Think small run = cost , convience. Any body know what CS --X on a bolt head stands for? More on the quick jack/ bolt discussion over the weekend. As they say, keep tuned. BOB
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:53 PM
legenmetals's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: El Cajon, ca
Cobra Make, Engine: contemporary(2) one with 427 sohc and one with 427 center oiler
Posts: 488
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob I have been reviewing your car for some time from that article and appreciate the details on your car from the safety wired components to the timed screws and bolts. Absolutely beautiful.

I have to ask about the Philip head screws used for the shifter boot on your car. I assume that these are correct but did Shelby ever use straight blade screws?
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 09:55 PM
A-Snake's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Original Shelby Owner


 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX2321
Posts: 1,368
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by patty442 View Post
To Mr. A-Snake . Thank you for posting the link. I wanted to try that but not very good with the computer stuff. No idea how. Jamo I have reprints and if you send me a mailing address for you, I can mail you the actual paper reprint and if it is OK, can you make it appear on this tread like A-Snake did with the cover and table of contents. There are many great photos that I think the people here would enjoy. I am currently preparing a Quick Jack discussion from a lecture I have given about them, before at a local Cobra Club meet. A hint, it also includes a discussion of what original actually means. It is England, the assembly line, is it as arrived at Shelby American, is it after Shelby American modification or prep, is it at the arrival at the selling dealer, or on the showroom floor after dealer prep, or when it left the dealership, with the new owner. I am sad to admit this but about 30 years ago, I was offered and bought an outstandingly original 23,000 miles 1967 Corvette from New Mexico. Original motor, paint, interior etc. etc etc. I bought it to go through the certification process, of NCRS corvette club to learn originality. I felt that the Corvette people were far ahead of the other marques. Alot of unrestored cars existed to evaluate. Even though I had seen 427 Cobras very early on even as new cars, as the years went by most were hammered and really really hammered. Does a new aluminum body, created by a perfect craftsman, of a wrecked and rolled Cobra add or detract from the value. I have been asked to make that decision for a prospective buyers many many time through the years. How important is a totally original frame, or someone's other frame or even an original frame from another car. Think about that one. ----- The Corvette key to be able to define so closely bolt head, clips real tight details, was all the cars were made on the same line at the same Plant, same guy, from the same bucket of bolts. Uniform-consistent for the entire run of 25,000 cars. Not six plants around the country for 1965 GTO's, each with its local OE bolt supplier. Something to think about when you look at Cobras . What AC did, what Shelby did. Former very consistent, latter, very inconsistent through production runs. GM/Corvette big dollars corporation, SA shoestring. Think small run = cost , convience. Any body know what CS --X on a bolt head stands for? More on the quick jack/ bolt discussion over the weekend. As they say, keep tuned. BOB
Bob,
Here is the article from 2013. Normally this would only be available to SAAC members
http://saac.memberlodge.com/resource...3-flawless.pdf

FWIW, this statement is not totally correct. "I bought it to go through the certification process, of NCRS corvette club to learn originality. "
The NCRS does not certify anything during Flight Judging. It is an opinion of the car conditions at that moment in time by those particular judges.
boxhead likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:01 PM
A-Snake's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Original Shelby Owner


 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX2321
Posts: 1,368
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by legenmetals View Post

I have to ask about the Philip head screws used for the shifter boot on your car. I assume that these are correct but did Shelby ever use straight blade screws?
Philip head screws were not used by AC Cars. They are limited to only US added items such as the shifter boot, radio mounting plate, windwings.
If a Cobra has no accessories, it has 4 Philip head screws. Add four if it has a radio and add 8 more if it has windwings. This pertains to leaf spring cars, but I don't know of any additional that may be on a coil spring car.
LMH likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:02 PM
Jamo's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno, CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,413
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob...sent you a Private Message see upper right-hand corner at top) and an email from the site (please reply using the email I listed), and provided you with my mailing address.
boxhead likes this.
__________________
Jamo
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2015, 03:48 AM
marcocsx3121's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jasper, GA, GA
Cobra Make, Engine: Owned CSX 3121 1969-1975. Went to the dark side and bought a 'Vette. May yet repent and be saved.
Posts: 653
Not Ranked     
Default

A comment about CSX3133. and its owner Bob Gingold. Without throwing stones, I was up close and personal to both the car and owner during the 1970s and a bit beyond, and let me say that many of the details in the story were not as I remembered them.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2015, 08:19 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, TX, TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 599 Polished Bronze
Posts: 546
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob, I saw your Cobra at the NCRS Kissimmee Florida Regional and it was beautiful. You gave me a copy of the article and I read it on the way back home.

It was good to see a Cobra, I kept coming back to it all weekend.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2015, 02:22 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 51
Not Ranked     
Default always love a challange

Hi Tim . The car at Kissimee was not 3133. Also the show was at Lakeland Sun and Fun airport. The car was my other car. The Kirkham driver. It was a great show. Did you see when I snuck out on the taxi way and made a few passes. I thought a guy in a yellow shirt was going to come out in a golf cart and throw me out of the airport. Did you see when some dope in a supercharged blue late model Corvette claiming 800 RWH and 24 pounds of boost came out to run. Lasted only 2 gears. He was shocked but was nice about it. Just kept saying I can't believe how fast those Cobra's are. I am glad you liked that car. My buddy is a major Corvette guy here in South Florida and asked me to bring the car to the very same Corvette show where my 67 car was judged years and years ago. He garages my car at his shop. He has 75 cars in his shop and almost 20 guys working for him. He is a 40 year great friend. Next about the certification of Corvettes. Sorry if I used the wrong technical term in your mind. And I really don't need to get into a Corvette discussion here. My point was due to the circumstances of their manufacturing process, clear trends and similarities could be documented. The Corvette guys were as I said far ahead of everyone else. I wanted to learn. I have been a student and a teacher of medicine all my life. It was an alternate source of information. Someones else's point of view. Sure the judges for the day are making decisions. Hopefully they know correctness. Even though I really don't want to start up with you. but you force me, it sounds like the judges of the day maybe didn't appreciate how nice your Corvette was. Just saying. Finally I am not going to respond anymore about the definition of certification, what NCRS stands for, or why they do what they do. They were a source of parallel information and understanding that I could use to improve my own knowledge about production, originality, sequencing, of Cobras. Done I hope with that. About the shift boot. 100% philips on the shift boot. Many 'experts' were concerned about that. Another responder has confirmed that. I have to think, if I have seen phillips hardware anywhere else in the car., from England. I have to check my early judging logs. Did you notice the clocking of 12 3 6 9 on the screw heads? Obviously not necessary or probable in production but I think a nice touch. You didn't mention the shifter. A Hurst??? I have the blueprint and instructions for that clearly labeled Shelby American 427 Mark 1966-1967. I went to Hurst in PA. Don't think it was in there catalog. I spoke to Joel Rosen about it. Not sure if it was special production or Joel talked George Hurst into making it and he would sell it. I saw Joel several years ago in Orlando at a PIR show doing some late model Camaro. Couldn't talk to him for long but he said it was special. I only have seen one other on the Motion drag car 427. Article in a Car magazine about three or four years ago. The uniqueness is the shifter is a Ford pattern reverse down like a ford shifter for a toploader, not Reverse up and to the left like most if not all Hurst Competition shifters. The transmission is also very very special. Finally there will always be nay- sayers [?} not sure if that is a word, in any discussion. If the guy who has a foggy memory of the 70's sends me a PM with your telephone number and I'll gladly discuss any details about the 70's with you. I love to talk about the old days a learn all over again. I liive in the 60's If you want to tell me that the body gaps were never that good, that the cars were never that straight, that my car never left AC with early webers, or a completely original 427 dry sump system, the article clearly discusses that. Read my purpose in finishing the car. All I do know, at the first Concours where it was seen by the public, Meadowbrook /StJohns in Detroit I received a special judges award for the" most desirable car in the show, the car that the judges all wanted to drive home", was engraved on the huge real silver cup that I received. The head judge said I can't give you best of show because only a car older than 1935 can get that. "Its political" . I really really would prefer to respond to detail questions, rather than defend the purpose and direction of the build. Early post today as I have my son's graduation from middle school ceremony tonight. Bob
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2015, 04:59 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Cobra Make, Engine: Superformance
Posts: 663
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob, would very much appreciate proper hardware details for quick jacks (I am studying the photos in the SAAC article as well). Also, proper Lemans cap "clocking" (angle and/or orientation to the body and fender lines), and proper fasteners/hardware, too. I've seen some at 90 degrees, some at 45, etc. Thank you very much.
-Steve
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2015, 06:02 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, TX, TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 599 Polished Bronze
Posts: 546
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob, I missed your venture on the taxi way, I did hear the car when you took it off the trailer. I'm very heavily involved in NCRS, I love both Corvettes and Cobras.
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2015, 06:17 AM
REAL 1's Avatar
Banned
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey, N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked     
Default

Bob: Could you please enlighten us about the DeBeneste "stash".? How extensive is it and it's source?

Btw, CSX4206 is at Billy's now and is also getting the quick Jack revamp and other "stuff".
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.

Last edited by REAL 1; 06-05-2015 at 06:20 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2015, 06:34 AM
Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: arroyo grande, ca, ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 427
Posts: 1,677
Not Ranked     
Default

A pic showing a small portion of the Denbeste "stash". Yes, those are Cobras and GT40's stacked on industrial racking on the back wall.

Cheers
Greg

Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2015, 06:45 AM
A-Snake's Avatar
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
Original Shelby Owner


 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX2321
Posts: 1,368
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by my427cobra View Post
A pic showing a small portion of the Denbeste "stash". Yes, those are Cobras and GT40's stacked on industrial racking on the back wall.

Cheers
Greg

But not much original stuff in that photo
Nedsel and RodKnock like this.
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2015, 06:02 AM
REAL 1's Avatar
Banned
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey, N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Snake View Post
But not much original stuff in that photo
You never know. The "stash" of original parts could hidden under everyones noses right in that room. Those trunks can hold a lot of stuff.
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
Reply With Quote
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-07-2015, 07:55 AM
Club Cobra Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: arroyo grande, ca, ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 427
Posts: 1,677
Not Ranked     
Default

And all those behind the scenes storage rooms!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2015, 09:10 AM
REAL 1's Avatar
Banned
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey, N.J
Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
Posts: 3,897
Not Ranked     
Default

Looks like Bob has left the building.
__________________
U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2015, 10:14 AM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 629
Not Ranked     
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by marcocsx3121 View Post
a comment about csx3133. And its owner bob gingold. Without throwing stones, i was up close and personal to both the car and owner during the 1970s and a bit beyond, and let me say that many of the details in the story were not as i remembered them.
x2 !!!!! :d
__________________
Dan
427 CSX 3000 long gone
427 CSX 4000 CSX-2
A few Shelbys all gone
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2015, 08:22 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 51
Not Ranked     
Default back in the house

Everyone hello. Been very busy all summer. Recovering from broken ankle on race car trailer preparing for SAAC Pocono. Still brought 3133 to the show. M et so many very nice people at the show. I have been inundated for requests for detailed photos and discussions of parts. I will get to everyone. I am finalizing the quick jack discussion. Maybe in about a week. I know this might get me in trouble but here goes. Several entries ago a member Marcos had indicated a discrepancy is his memory versus mine , the author of the article, and his. I had asked for communication via private mail to discuss his concerns. He has not responded. I have been advised by my friends to take the high road. In reponse: I guess jealosy had no time limit. You question MY memory of MY car and My life. I was at those same Cobra Club get togethers that you were. I stopped going because of what was going on. Considering the amount of alcohol and other intoxicants you consumed, I am surprised that you can remember the color of my car or your own name. Again if you would like me to refresh your memory or discuss anything please send me a private email. I have waited six months.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 12-14-2015, 08:57 PM
CC Member
Visit my Photo Gallery

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 51
Not Ranked     
Default

a couple of other items since it has been awhile. Jamo, my son showed me your mailing address that you sent me. I'll get a copy of the SAAC article for you. Just got another 250 copies from my printer friend. Series two came out even better than the first printing. More importantly I have decided to let some of the best fabricators on this site to get a shot at reproducing some items for our cars from absolutely positively original parts. Nick used one of my original chassis manuals as the master for his reproduction. Several at Pocono have asked about the original roll bar on 3133, and whether I would give up its design.. Many years ago, a racer had an obsolete NOS one with the shelby number tag in the original shelby american box in his stash of racing parts. I will be working on that project in about two months. I will be working side by side to make sure that the welds are exact - no better no worse, same technique with original hardware and with a copy of the original professional blueprint from shelby american. Another item might be the dry sump tank with a mounting blue print also. I have twisted the arm of the guy who was involved with mine to do several more. He was the biggest and is the nicest dry sump guy in the U.S. Not Aviad. I took an NOS tank and long distance allowed him to update the inside, after I told him that only about six cars were dry sump. His comment was probably because the tanks inside baffling was designed by a neanderthal and all the engines blew up at speed. He has slowed down alot like all of old timers. There were years he said when 15 of his tanks were in cars at the starting line at the Daytona 500. Getting late just wanted to say hi again. Dr Bob
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubcobra.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners, moderators, Shelby American, any other replica manufacturer, Ford Motor Company. This website has been planned and developed by clubcobra.com and its forum members and should not be construed as being endorsed by Ford Motor Company, or Shelby American or any other manufacturer unless expressly noted by that entity. "Cobra" and the Cobra logo are registered trademarks for Ford Motor Co., Inc. clubcobra.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). Thank you for visiting clubcobra.com. For full policy documentation refer to the following link: CC Policy
Links monetized by VigLink