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Kirkham Motorsports

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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2014, 09:11 PM
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Ben

I don't have any pressure gauge to measure fuel pressure. Where could I preferably borrow such a beasty? I don't see it as a tool worth buying for future needs.

This did make me think about dirty or even blocked injectors perhaps.

The fuel ring and injectors were reinstalled by Wellco after motor rebuild but have sat around installed with the motor for the past five odd years.

Am guessing that if I managed a fuel pressure test and this came up ok then the only option would be to strip back the top of the motor and remove the injectors for testing.

Any other suggestions guys?
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2014, 10:13 PM
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Well if you have confirmed spark, you need to confirm fuel, and if the plugs are not getting wet/smell of fuel then I would be checking pressure. Dirty injectors wont stop it from starting unless you kept them in a bucket of dirt! Minor dirt in there would just cause it to run rough. Do you have provision for a gauge sender somewhere?
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2014, 10:15 PM
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Slowy I have a noid light kit if you want to borrow it to check the injectors. Also have an OBD2 cable and you can get free software to check for basic engine fault codes.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 06:01 AM
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Now let me preface by saying I'm no expert, and haven't worked on modern motors at all.

However I've managed to get my old '89 Range Rover classic running nicely, and it has a really early ECU setup with basic sensors. (Temp, MAF, throttle position, etc).

I had a problem with similar sounding symptoms to yours that actually turned out to be caused by flooding; there is a thermistor (separate from the temperature sensor) that specifically tells the ECU to run really rich on startup until a minimum effective temperature is reached. On the rangie, these thermistors are known to blow. To test it, I simply removed the lead and checked for resistance of the thermistor using my cheap multimeter. I then placed a suitable resistor (in this case 170ohm) across the lead terminals to trick the ECU. Engine started and once warm ran like a dream.

I haven't learnt the subtleties of modern V8 (yet), but maybe this will give you something else to look at if there is a basically similar setup.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen low View Post
What measurement are you specifically chasing?

Its not clear to me from your description above.
Thanks for the reply.
I would like to know the measurements of the upper wishbones protruding from the chassis rails and from point to point the overal length of the upper wishbone front and rear.
Please advise the thickness of the mounting plate that is welded to the horizontal bar. I have assumed it is 5mm.
I am having difficulties in downloading the photos.
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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 05:37 PM
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Guys

Am trying to source a fuel pressure gauge to test supply pressure and eliminate this off the list.

Am contemplating having my sparky back just to work through the various plugs to confirm all the sensors are at least operating as they should.

At least No. 1 plug has been out on a few occassions but also removed passenger bank over the weekend. Plenty of fuel smell but also quite sooted from burn off of the residual oil I had been squirting into the bores over time.

The injectors have remained installed so any blockage shouldn't be major but again checking and cleaning these wouldn't be a bad idea anyway. They are the original standard items from this motor.

Got bugga all time on the car yesterday after wasting Saturday trying to get it started so I've only removed various plates I needed to paint to allow me to do final install of these once dry.

Paul I had the sparky install the standard interegation plug from the falcon so with the right gear I can simply plug into the system to check it out. Never having seen it done how do the scanners plug in and work?

If I need to download to a laptop, I'm still stuck as this work machine is too heavily protected normally to let me download stray apps. without IT support and agreeance.

How do others intergogate the system?

Cheers

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  #147 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 05:57 PM
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Slowly you can buy OBD II adapters for your Android/iPhone on ebay, some via bluetooth and some via cable, they're pretty cheap.
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  #148 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 09:04 PM
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Slo.

I have a wifi obd2 sender and a cable obd2 also. I am away at present but will be back in melb later in the week. PM me your details and I'll see if I can come out and help you wed, th, fr or weekend.
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  #149 (permalink)  
Old 06-01-2014, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen low View Post
Paul I had the sparky install the standard interegation plug from the falcon so with the right gear I can simply plug into the system to check it out. Never having seen it done how do the scanners plug in and work?
The cheap $20 "ELM327" OBDII clones (see below) seem to work OK on the late model GM and VW engines in my cars.

ELM327 Obdii OBD2 Bluetooth Auto CAR Diagnostic Interface Scanner | eBay

You plug the adapter into your ODBII port and it talks via USB or bluetooth to the computer or mobile phone where you have installed the application.

If you have an Android phone grab the "Torque" app from the store (it's free) and you can borrow my bluetooth adapter. That should show you any generic fault codes but you may need to buy a more expensive hand held scanner to see manufacturer-specific codes.

If nothing else this will tell you whether your ECU is actually working. My car didn't start the first time due to voltage drop across the ignition barrel - not enough juice for the ECU. Fixed it with a new ignition barrel and dedicated relay just to be safe!
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  #150 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 02:50 AM
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Hmm slowy did you change the ignition barrel in the rebuild or is it the original one?
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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 03:01 AM
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Only real different thing is the rebuilt engine.

Despite a lot of relocation most of what I started with is what has been re-used.

But it has been 5 odd years and the stuff wasn't maintained in pristine environments so it could be any sort of gremlin.

I'll see if Guye can help and go from there.

Otherwise a very cheap scanner and some tuition use care of Sambo and who knows........

Ciao chasps!!
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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 03:23 AM
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Default Racv

Slowly,

When I did a few mods on the Hardtop (cut too many wires) I called

RACV and they fixed it...........


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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 03:29 AM
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You said in one of your early posts that the plugs were sooty probably from oiling the engine while it was in storage.

Have you tried cleaning them or at least replace them, if they're covered in soot and oil that won't give off a nice big fat spark.
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 07:49 AM
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Yes have cleaned both banks after finding this outcome.

Stiffness, don't even think total care will do it for me at the moment.

Then again maybe I should try, if I get the right RACV fella I might get quite some time being helped - ha!
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 06:03 PM
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Basic checks I would be doing Slowy and this will take you less than 1 hour and cost you nothing.

- Is the computer powered up? Eg, connect OBDII port.
- Do you have spark? Borrow my spark plug tester.
- Injector pulse? Check with noid light.
- Check error codes - eg, MAF or other critical fault.

If all of those things are good, my guess is a timing or compression problem (custom heads?). Then again I'm no expert.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 06:57 PM
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That's the plan Paul.

Guye might be able to turn up later in the week so some of these can be checked then.

I have borrowed a fuel pressure gauge and will do an inline test when I can.

I think the code scan is going to be my best source of guidance, though we will see.

Frustration has subsided somewhat and just getting on with other things in the interim.

Hadn't mentioned I've also got sender issues for at least oil pressure and perhaps oil temp as these are doing weird things at ignition on and crank and I've found that the water pump has a small persistent leak.

Pump will have to be removed but for now if I get the car going that is a major mental hurdle I'll then be able to put behind me.

I assume a lack of use has seen something perish on the pump, which I thought a bit odd, but again 5 years sitting around doing not much isn't generally good anyway.

As to the heads they copied someone elses set up Don had done so no these are fine can't recall if they were Edelbrock heads but a known option.

It was suggested again that I try aero start or similiar which might be an option but I'd rather leave the uncontrolled confined combustion options till all other ideas are failing. Too much bang isn't good either.
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 06-02-2014, 10:00 PM
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Default Frustrating

Slowly,

It looks like you are getting closer every day, frustrating as it seems it will

all soon be fixed.

As the car has had a LOOOOOONNNNNGGGG rebuild so much has been

modified/replaced/redone/changed it is bound to have a few teething problems.

Keep at it..............


STIFFY
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2014, 06:12 PM
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Default Back to basics....

Thanks Herr Stiffness

Getting back to the basics of engine operation I know getting it started comes down to three basic items, have I - fuel, compression and spark.

The motor as built is absolutely fine for compression and the checks I've had to do for timing are spot on - so the compression side and hence the motor rebuild is excellent. And as said earlier no different than what I would have expected from Wellco.

So the motor is good but it has to be this nuff nuff not getting other settings and ancillaries under my control set up correctly.

The fuel pressure I will check shortly but there is evidence of fuel arriving at the cylinders. If this proves to be at the pressure needed then I can tick fuel supply off the list.

However the timing of fuel arrival may be out care of my cam sensor setting and this needs attention.

And this also leaves my coil pack layout to be reviewed. I have confirmed spark but need to confirm this is happening at the right time and to the cylinders in the right order (I might have leads in the wrong sequence).

As an ex-auto machinist I always had confidence in and an understanding of the rotating parts.

It is clearly those bits outside of the motor that I've had less experience with that are causing me this grief.

It's a great but frustrating learning curve I guess.

Hopefully will be able to post a real first start video soon.

Cheers guys

Slo
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2014, 11:32 PM
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slowly I found this, does this match your coil pack/lead connection layout?

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Old 06-04-2014, 02:05 AM
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Hmm packs are marked but I might check with the sparky on that.

Did a static fuel pressure test and got 55 psi or about 400kPa which I believe is at the right operating pressure.

So can tick fuel off the list.
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