Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[1985 CCX]

Have we not concluded CSX2049 is no longer except in pictures?
I am turning my flashlight off.........

[86Sebring]

This is the best thread on this forum.
Actually involved parties are keeping it civil, great discussion, very informative, thanks Gents!

[Buzz]

One thing that I do find intriguing is that many of the records of CSX2049's race history list Cunningham as not only the driver, but the actual entrant of the car. Example here:
https://www.racingsportscars.com/cha...s/CSX2049.html

Is it normal for a driver to be listed as the entrant in old race records?

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

One thing that I do find intriguing is that many of the records of CSX2049's race history list Cunningham as not only the driver, but the actual entrant of the car. Example here:
https://www.racingsportscars.com/cha...s/CSX2049.html

Is it normal for a driver to be listed as the entrant in old race records?

Yes, when you are the owner you are the entrant, and if you are the driver you are also named. The information is taken from the entrant registration form for all cars registered to compete and go through technical inspection held usually a couple of weeks before the race, usually at a automobile dealership, such as Hollywood Sports Cars in Hollywood, CA.

Sponsors are also given credits in the race program

[peterpjb]

very exciting thread,

I would like to sum up what we do might know by now out of this thread:

1. David Harts car is probably an air car

2. The car with the court awarded title to 2049 has no original parts than can be identified as from 2049 (#115) and is therefore probably also an air car

3. The chassis that is claimed by USC Cowboy as the remains of the 2049 chassis, is an ACE chassis

From my understanding the case is still open

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by peterpjb

very exciting thread,

2. The car with the court awarded title to 2049 has no original parts than can be identified as from 2049 (#115) and is therefore probably also an air car

Let's revisit what makes an "air-car:" We use this term when someone literally creates a car "out of thin air," i.e. when they have no legal claim to the VIN. In the case of CSX 2049, when the remains of the original chassis were stolen, the opportunity to reuse the original chassis with the original VIN-stamping was, obviously, taken away from the legal owner improperly. Preserving the right to reconstruct a car using the VIN that was stolen was the basis of the CA court case. In a situation such as this, there is really no alternative.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[USC_COWBOY]

My activities related to our Cobra CSX2049 was to assist the mechanics, tow it to race tracks along with my friend Tim and to detail it prior to races. Paul was training me to drive competitively as we wanted to drive as a father and son team in the enduro type races but the governing bodies of the racing organizations would not grant competition licenses to anyone under 21 years of age. This angered both Paul and myself because they did allow international drivers under 21 to compete, most notably the Rodriquez brothers (Pedro and Ricardo) of Mexico who I believe were 19 and 17 respectively. Once he let me put on his driving suit, helmet and face shield to take the Cobra out to scuff and warm up the tires.

The one time I did not go to the race was for the Willow Springs race at which he was killed in the accident. I was on a short trip with my fiancee making plans for our wedding on February 14, 1964, and read the Sunday morning Times that he had died. I immediately called my mom and she confirmed his death and asked for me to come home.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

My activities related to our Cobra CSX2049 was to assist the mechanics, tow it to race tracks along with my friend Tim and to detail it prior to races. Paul was training me to drive competitively as we wanted to drive as a father and son team in the enduro type races but the governing bodies of the racing organizations would not grant competition licenses to anyone under 21 years of age. This angered both Paul and myself because they did allow international drivers under 21 to compete, most notably the Rodriquez brothers (Pedro and Ricardo) of Mexico who I believe were 19 and 17 respectively. Once he let me put on his driving suit, helmet and face shield to take the Cobra out to scuff and warm up the tires.

The one time I did not go to the race was for the Willow Springs race at which he was killed in the accident. I was on a short trip with my fiancee making plans for our wedding on February 14, 1964, and read the Sunday morning Times that he had died. I immediately called my mom and she confirmed his death and asked for me to come home.

Once again, I'd like to express my respect and appreciation for Ned and all that he does - including patiently sharing his knowledge with the rest of us here in this thread. I also find it difficult to outright dismiss or disbelieve all of your personal accounts and memories of you and your stepfather's involvement with the car. Maybe I'm just caught up with the sentimental side of the issue; but I can't shake the feeling that there must be some truth in your accounts.

May I politely ask a few questions about what you remember about the car between race events - when it wasn't at the track?

- Where was it kept - did it go home with you and Paul from the track?

- Did Paul state that he actually owned the car as opposed to just campaigning it as the driver?

- Did Paul ever talk about the purchase of the car and it's subsequent conversion to race specs?

I suppose what I'm asking is whether it's possible that Paul Cunningham was given care and custody of CSX2049 by a hands-off owner (Abiden?) while he raced it; and people just assumed that the car was his - or do you remember or have anything specific that can credibly show that he had title?

Thanks for sticking around as well and keeping the dialogue open.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Once again, I'd like to express my respect and appreciation for Ned and all that he does - including patiently sharing his knowledge with the rest of us here in this thread. I also find it difficult to outright dismiss or disbelieve all of your personal accounts and memories of you and your stepfather's involvement with the car. Maybe I'm just caught up with the sentimental side of the issue; but I can't shake the feeling that there must be some truth in your accounts.

May I politely ask a few questions about what you remember about the car between race events - when it wasn't at the track?

- Where was it kept - did it go home with you and Paul from the track?

- Did Paul state that he actually owned the car as opposed to just campaigning it as the driver?

- Did Paul ever talk about the purchase of the car and it's subsequent conversion to race specs?

I suppose what I'm asking is whether it's possible that Paul Cunningham was given care and custody of CSX2049 by a hands-off owner (Abiden?) while he raced it; and people just assumed that the car was his - or do you remember or have anything specific that can credibly show that he had title?

Thanks for sticking around as well and keeping the dialogue open.

Thank you for your interest and comments.

Between races the car was kept in our garage or was at the mechanics facilities being prepared for the next event. Usually the car came home with us after the race. Depending on what was to be done it would then go to the mechanic, or in the case of the last Willow Springs Race, it was going to SAI on Monday morning for major upgrades (this is substantiated by a written communication and published account of another driver that had discussed it with him while they were on the starting paddock before the race).

We had other race cars before the CSX2049 Cobra and they were family owned, Paul did drive other racer's cars on request, but not as a regular situation, as he was quite experienced and could then share his opinions on what may be needed to make their cars more competitive, lots of bench racing going on as it's only a part of the game.

The CSX2049 Cobra was already competition race prepared when it arrived at our house, trailered not driven, it was not registered for street use, Powerine Oil was the first and only sponsor while the Cobra was campaigned by Paul. I actually found a check stub from Powerine Oil for payment to Paul for the Willow Springs Race and have never heard of Ann Abidin or her son who some claim hired Paul to drive their car. Didn't happen. Isn't it very strange that an owner of such a state of the art race car, obviously excited about their car, have it converted from street to competition by SAI, then would hire someone to race the car for them and never come to an event, tech inspection, pits, race, post race ceremonies, etc. In addition, on the entry forms for the races and in the race programs never be shown as entrant, owner, sponsor, etc. while we owned the CSX2049 Cobra. Possibly they owned it or another chassis prior to Paul and then sold it before we owned CSX2049.

[twobjshelbys]

So it seems to me that this topic has come full circle, maybe twice, and that everything that can be said has been said...

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I've followed this thread from the beginning, and (with all due respect to SAAC) my take is only that counterfeit cars are out there. That is my opinion of CSX 2049. As for the stolen parts, that's another case. I am not in favor of creating a new Cobra and titling it as a 1963 Cobra just because you have paper. Some unknowing buyer will eventually be told it's an original Cobra, thus being cheated out of a million dollars (or thereabouts).

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Buzz]

I pretty much agree. I seriously doubt that either of the two existing cars have much if anything at all of the original car in them and the odds of a significant enough chunk of 2049's wrecked chassis showing up that can be used in even a dubious rebuild/reconstruction are remote.
I'd still like to see the un-manipulated truth about the life and destruction of the car come to light though, as the creative titling efforts vs. USC_Cowboy's sincere sounding recollections leave me feeling that something is missing.
In this day and age of selective truths and realities based on self-interest agendas, it sure would be nice to see something actually set straight.

[USC_COWBOY]

For those of you on the forum that doubt me and my recollections, I offer this up to you now.

I have always just stated what it was that I recalled or found, as for the frame pieces that ended up in my mom's garage that I found when I cleared her property after her death as the executor of her estate here is the latest.

I wanted to get very specific information regarding the frame pieces in my possession and have been somewhat tight lipped about them because I was awaiting a definitive answer from AC Cars in England. I sent them the photos and asked if they would examine them and give me any information regarding the frame.

They responded this very day...

Hello Mr. Heineke

Thanks for the images.

That is an AC chassis, probably from an AC Aceca circa 1955-1961

It looks like the identification plate has been removed, if that was available we could provide more details

Yours sincerely

AC Cars

I am open and forth-coming unlike some. Now I know for sure what it is, the good the bad and the ugly. As for why it was in my mom's garage, I have no idea. Possibly a gentle gesture of respect that went wrong. The details died with my mom.

So now we have a bit cleaner picture of the history of CSX2049.

[USC_COWBOY]

Interesting website...

SHELBY MEMORABILIA — VERNON ESTES CLASSICS http://www.vernonestesclassics.com/memorabiliaandparts


All you need to do is buy a blank invoice ($45) on this site, get that old manual typewriter out of your garage and start typing using a real invoice as to correct content for a Cobra sale and VOILA! you have period correct invoice on the correct paper and typewriter.

Present this to someone or court and you to can be a CSX2049 owner.

Just playing around and found out how easy it is to get your hands on invoice material used by Shelby.

RIP CSX2049

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Interesting website...

SHELBY MEMORABILIA — VERNON ESTES CLASSICS SHELBY MEMORABILIA — VERNON ESTES CLASSICS


All you need to do is buy a blank invoice ($45) on this site, get that old manual typewriter out of your garage and start typing using a real invoice as to correct content for a Cobra sale and VOILA! you have period correct invoice on the correct paper and typewriter.

Present this to someone or court and you to can be a CSX2049 owner.

Just playing around and found out how easy it is to get your hands on invoice material used by Shelby.

RIP CSX2049

To whatever extent you might be suggesting that SAAC or other record-keepers use reproduction paperwork to support some type of malfeasance, I would politely suggest you are 100% wrong. We know exactly what came from the Shelby and Ford archives vs. anything submitted by an owner at a later date, and the latter submissions make us wonder: why wasn't a copy of this in the factory records? The fact is, given what our mission is - to document history truthfully - we don't accept documentation on cars with debated history from owners unless it is corroborated elsewhere. Just so you are aware of how we operate.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

To whatever extent you might be suggesting that SAAC or other record-keepers use reproduction paperwork to support some type of malfeasance, I would politely suggest you are 100% wrong. We know exactly what came from the Shelby and Ford archives vs. anything submitted by an owner at a later date, and the latter submissions make us wonder: why wasn't a copy of this in the factory records? The fact is, given what our mission is - to document history truthfully - we don't accept documentation on cars with debated history from owners unless it is corroborated elsewhere. Just so you are aware of how we operate.

Ned,

I am not insinuating anything, just pointing out how easy it would be to create bogus documentation. By the way, if you read the details on the referenced/linked site you would see it is real invoices not imitations.

[ALF]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Ned,

I am not insinuating anything, just pointing out how easy it would be to create bogus documentation. By the way, if you read the details on the referenced/linked site you would see it is real invoices not imitations.

Vernon is well known to this community, selling great SAI items and is a member of this forum.
If someone intends to get criminal by using collector items he is selling, it is not his fault.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by ALF

Vernon is well known to this community, selling great SAI items and is a member of this forum.
If someone intends to get criminal by using collector items he is selling, it is not his fault.

Not meant to demean Vernon, just pointing how easy it is to get period correct invoicing materials.