Tired and frustrated with the glycol in oil leak..

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Eh eh, told you it was the dollars. Man that stuff is EXPENSIVE!!! Heckuva price to pay to see how it works.

...oh well, cheaper than buying a Kirkham to see how that works.

Ernie, if you're really going to use it, you've GOT TO read the instructions. Here they are: http://www.hrpworld.com/client_image...ader/683_4.pdf Pay attention to the purging, the cap, the plugging of the weep hole, etc. There's more work to this conversion than just an afternoon's "flush 'n fill."

[Jerry Clayton]

Ernie---if is not broke don't fix it

[Ronbo]

The big thing is getting the old ethylene glycol out of your system, trace amounts of water will boil out over time.

I don't know that you have to plug your weep hole, but I'd do that anyway in the case of the Cobra. (no matter what coolant I was running)

The cap mod is easy, snap the back flow button off the bottom, you now have a zero psi cap.

Amsoil also makes a poly propylene glycol based coolant (as well as most "safe" coolants) that's about the same $.

BTW there's also a track safe version of the Evens, but it has to be replaced every couple years.

[Excaliber]

Good link to the instructions Pat. I think this subject deserves it's own thread in case someone does a "search" for Evan's Coolant in the future, so,,,, stand by and look for it!

I'm running a pure water/water wetter system so flushing any existing antifreeze for me is not a problem.

New Thread is up:

Evans WATERLESS Coolant

[Excaliber]

Say, Undy, didn't mean to steal the thunder from your thread with the Evan's thing. Do keep us updated on where the leak is/was.

...of course, if you'd been running Evans at low to zero pressure one could theorize you would have never known there was a problem because the coolant may have never leaked in the first place!

Is that a reasonable theory? That with low or zero pressure there would be no leak into the valve cover area?

[undy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Say, Undy, didn't mean to steal the thunder from your thread with the Evan's thing. Do keep us updated on where the leak is/was.

...of course, if you'd been running Evans at low to zero pressure one could theorize you would have never known there was a problem because the coolant may have never leaked in the first place!

Is that a reasonable theory? That with low or zero pressure there would be no leak into the valve cover area?

No stolen thunder here...

It's actually pertinent to my problem. If it wasn't for the poorer heat rejection factor of the Evans I'd consider using it. I'd actually looked in to it a couple years ago. I tend to remember making a post or 2 about it here but there was little if any interest at the time. I worked v-e-r-y hard to get my cooling system up to a required capacity to keep my engine cool. I honestly feel the Evans stuff would negate all my efforts in one fell swoop.

It's not only about keeping your mess from boiling over, bursting hoses and blowing by gaskets. It's about maintaining the actual engine at a certain temp. That's required for oil temps, efficient combustion and the "right" amount of engine expansion.

While I'm on the subject of engine expansion... With an all alloy engine, proper expansion (engine temperature) is much more critical then the equivalent all iron motor. I talked to Robert Pond recently and he said his greatest terror with his aluminum block is overheating. You run the chance of gauling cylinder walls, poor piston sealing, warpage and failed gaskets. If the Evans stuff causes my alloy motor to run warmer (210+ degerees) then that alone would be a deal breaker. Before I got my engine temps under proper control I'd noticed that as my engine temps climbed above a "desired" temp my "blow-by" actually INCREASED. This was determined by removing one of my valve cover breathers and visually checking the amount of combustion gasses (vapor/smoke) exiting the valve cover. When engine temps were "normal" there were no gasses that I could detect. Once temps started to climb above my perceived "norm" the visual vapors dramatically increased. Once temps returned to normal it stopped pumping the vapors...

Soooo.... that being said, it's water, water wetter and a taddly amount or aunti-freeze for me.

[undy]

Well...... Two 105 degree days with 80% relative humidity kept my robust arse out of the super-heated garage for the weekend. The only pressure testing that went on was blood pressure testing. I did manage to get all my materials together and fine tune the game plan. That pretty much was the extent of it. It looks like it's "to be continued" next weekend, assuming a bit more wrench friendly temps...

I did an air handler change-out in an 168 degree attic Saturday (5 hours worth) and that about did me in for the weekend.... whew

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by undy

I did an air handler change-out in an 168 degree attic Saturday (5 hours worth) and that about did me in for the weekend.... whew

You could always add AC to the garage.......

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

You could always add AC to the garage.......

I am reminded of the proverb of the shoemaker's children....

[undy]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

You could always add AC to the garage.......

After this weekend a little 2 ton split system heat pump might be in order... It would be around $1500 in materials ... labor's free

[Z-linkCobra]

Originally Posted by undy

Well...... Two 105 degree days with 80% relative humidity kept my robust arse out of the super-heated garage for the weekend. The only pressure testing that went on was blood pressure testing. I did manage to get all my materials together and fine tune the game plan. That pretty much was the extent of it. It looks like it's "to be continued" next weekend, assuming a bit more wrench friendly temps...

I did an air handler change-out in an 168 degree attic Saturday (5 hours worth) and that about did me in for the weekend.... whew

I hated attic jobs. Im not sure what was worse...the heat or the insulation. You can come down out of the attic and cool off...you have to wear the insulation off. That generaly takes about 2 days...lol.

I feel your pain man.

[undy]

Nope, HVAC work day... These 105 deg days are tearing me up.

Tomorrow's looking much cooler than last Sunday. I'll be on it like stink, right after breakfast. I'm planning on doing a couple pressure tests, right side of the engine then the left. I've got to jerk the water pump and finish the fabrication of the block-off plates. Nitrogen again will be the medium of choice to pressure test, each side to 20 psi this time. I'll check all connections for tightness and watch to see what the pressure does. Rate of loss (hopefully none) will be compared, right to left.

[patrickt]

Sounds like a plan. Remember the bottom passenger side water pump bolt is in the water jacket too.

[undy]

I bought a pair of sacrificial water pump gaskets and will RTV them well. Some teflon paste will work on the water jacket bolt too.

Will post tomorrow evening about results...

[undy]

The tear-down and saga continues...

The pressure test plates are on and I'm ready to throw the nitrogen to it.

Ernie, Pat & Jamo; I sincerely appologize if I offended anyone with my blantant and somewhat insensitive display of hydraulic roller lifters.. I did it accepting full reponsibility, knowing I may be "lashed" at a later date It shall never grace my avatar



Anyone got a spare Dutch boy laying around?

Well... It looks like the rear head gasket is leaking near the water port. Under coolant pressure I'd get coolant dumping into the intake valley That explains the bit of coolant in the oil. Hmmmmm... wonder what caused it to leak???




Ahhh..... the mystery's solved, NOW WHAT THE HELL DO I DO???

I decided to check the head bolt torque so I set the torque wrench at 85 and hit the bolt directly above the coolant leak. It turned with relative ease, and kept turning ... and turning ... and turning... DARN, a stripped head bolt The rest of the head bolts on both heads are to spec with no other stripped holes.

The other head gasket seeped a bit to, although not as bad as the driver's head gasket.

Soooo..... I guess it's time to yank both heads and have them skim-cut. It'll true them up and give a better gasket surface.

Listen up engine builders and pros! (Rick, Brent, Barry, Keith, George, Tom etc) My questions are;


Can I repair the stripped block head bolt hole, block in car? If so, should I use a heli-coil, time-sert or what??

Am I not getting enough "grab" with the ARP head bolts? Should I switch to studs. If one stripped hole is there others could be close too. I need to be able to pull the heads in the future without yanking the whole motor so, are the head studs easily removable so you can pull the head?

Lastly, I used the regular ol' Failpro 1020s. Is there a better head gasket out ther for an all aluminum motor? Should I be doing something different around the water ports to get it to seal properly? Soooo many questions..

Rick P (and others) you were sort of right about where the leak would be.

Kev, see what I get for being ugly...

[Jerry Clayton]

Well I'm not on the list----

But yes you can repair the threads with the block in the car

Use heli coil--a longer version since its an alum block

If you use helicoils for a repair and later they fail, then you can go to the insert



Never, ever use bolts into an aluminum block--always use studs
and they are removable--arp has allen tips

[undy]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

Well I'm not on the list----

But yes you can repair the threads with the block in the car

Use heli coil--a longer version since its an alum block

If you use helicoils for a repair and later they fail, then you can go to the insert

Never, ever use bolts into an aluminum block--always use studs
and they are removable--arp has allen tips

Thanks Jerry, I figured I could do it in place. I'll locate a longer heli-coil. I also can't remember if the block's already helicoiled. If it is then I believe they make an oversized Heli-coil or a time-sert or ??

I'll also order some studs, pretty much already made up my mind on that one.

Originally Posted by lineslinger

I've been following your "adventure" Undy.... bet your glad to see the bubbles (well, kinda'). Got a lot of respect for your determination and creative thinking in solving your engines leakage problems.
Keep the posts and pictures coming on analysis and repair on the rebuild and good luck with that as well.

Thanks Line, bittersweet to say the least.

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

X2. Thank for taking the time to photo and write to keep us up. Glad the find can solve the problem but don't know who/how stripped it.

Let me say that the only wrench that has ever been on my intake and heads is yours truely. I did the assembly, I alone am responsible.

Originally Posted by blykins

I'd go with a helicoil...and switch to studs. The ARP studs have the hex head in the top so you can use an allen wrench to back them out. The studs will give you 100% thread engagement in the block, something you didn't have with the bolts.

I'd thought the ARPs had the allen head. I should have switched to studs before. I knew better on the intake and made my own studs, the best thing I could have done after stripping a hole or two.

How about head gaskets? Felpro, Cometic or what?? Do you do anything special around the head gasket water ports?

Do you know if the Pond head bolt holes are already heli-coiled? As many time as I've had this apart you'd think I'd remember...

Originally Posted by olddog

I was hoping the porosity in the back of the intake was it.

I'm curious if the head bolt stripped when it was torqued or if it failed sometime after it was torqued. Did you torque the head down or someone else?

When you get it apart, you need to determine if the threads in the block are good. I am assuming that the block had heli-coils from the manufacturer. I would not put another heli-coil in unless the aluminum threads in the block look good. As far as I know there is only one size tap for a heli-coil for a certain size bolt thread.

Check to see how many of the head bolt threads were actually engaged. Was it a short bolt? Did the Heli-coil come all the way up to the top (recessed resulting in not enough threads)?

I agree that studs would be better. High torque on aluminum parts always give me the willies when I pull on a wrench. With studs the threads in the block never get twisted under load.

I personally torqued everything. All head bolts torqued solid to 85 lbft with no undue yield. The threads must have pulled out during operation. When? I don't know. I've had this coolant problem for over a year.

I'll pull the heads next weekend and inspect the block threads.

[undy]

I went out and measured the head bolt hole threaded depth and it's 2" deep. My head bolts only grab 1" of the threaded hole. No wonder one stripped out...

Do they make a 2" long helicoil? If it's already heli-coiled what are my options?

[FUNFER2]

I have never used these "Time Serts" (a threaded solid steel bushing “not a spiral wound wire” that prevents aluminum from stripping) rather than helicoils, but Blue Thunder uses them. Has anyone experience these before ?

I think, the cost was around $40 per side.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by undy

How about head gaskets? Felpro, Cometic or what?? Do you do anything special around the head gasket water ports?

Dave,
Call Barry R. He has and uses a new style MLS gasket. If he's using it on his customer engines-they must be good.