Tired and frustrated with the glycol in oil leak..

[lineslinger]

I've been following your "adventure" Undy.... bet your glad to see the bubbles (well, kinda'). Got a lot of respect for your determination and creative thinking in solving your engines leakage problems.
Keep the posts and pictures coming on analysis and repair on the rebuild and good luck with that as well.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by lineslinger

I've been following your "adventure" Undy.... bet your glad to see the bubbles (well, kinda'). Got a lot of respect for your determination and creative thinking in solving your engines leakage problems.
Keep the posts and pictures coming on analysis and repair on the rebuild and good luck with that as well.

X2. Thank for taking the time to photo and write to keep us up. Glad the find can solve the problem but don't know who/how stripped it.

[blykins]

I'd go with a helicoil...and switch to studs. The ARP studs have the hex head in the top so you can use an allen wrench to back them out. The studs will give you 100% thread engagement in the block, something you didn't have with the bolts.

[blykins]

Sorry Jerry....you basically said everything that needed to be said.

[olddog]

I was hoping the porosity in the back of the intake was it.

I'm curious if the head bolt stripped when it was torqued or if it failed sometime after it was torqued. Did you torque the head down or someone else?

When you get it apart, you need to determine if the threads in the block are good. I am assuming that the block had heli-coils from the manufacturer. I would not put another heli-coil in unless the aluminum threads in the block look good. As far as I know there is only one size tap for a heli-coil for a certain size bolt thread.

Check to see how many of the head bolt threads were actually engaged. Was it a short bolt? Did the Heli-coil come all the way up to the top (recessed resulting in not enough threads)?

I agree that studs would be better. High torque on aluminum parts always give me the willies when I pull on a wrench. With studs the threads in the block never get twisted under load.

[Excaliber]

Hmmm, I wonder if a stud will work with the existing hole, which may have enough threads left to hold it tight...

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Hmmm, I wonder if a stud will work with the existing hole, which may have enough threads left to hold it tight...

If you go with this approach, use this. It's designed for this kind of repair. http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ead_Repair.htm

My father has used this successfully on head bolts before and I have used on a pan bolt (granted not much torque on a pan bolt).

[madmaxx]

You have got to be kidding me, no way would I trust this stuff. May last 2 or 3 starts, after enough temp cycles if you can even keep it running that long it will crumble.

Originally Posted by dcdoug

If you go with this approach, use this. It's designed for this kind of repair. http://www.permatex.com/products/Aut...ead_Repair.htm

My father has used this successfully on head bolts before and I have used on a pan bolt (granted not much torque on a pan bolt).

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by madmaxx

You have got to be kidding me, no way would I trust this stuff. May last 2 or 3 starts, after enough temp cycles if you can even keep it running that long it will crumble.

It's been 3 years on my father's head bolt and no issues. Like Excalibur, he figured he'd give it a shot and if it didn't work he could go with the coil/insert. Although it's in an iron block/head flathead - not sure what the torque spec was for his heads.

Not sure whether you actually looked at how the stuff works, but here's the crib notes: You spread it around in the hole, put release agent on the bolt, run it down in the hole and it fills any damaged area and forms "new" threads in those areas. Then you take the bolt out and let it harden. It hardens to the equivalent of Grade 5. It's good to 300 degrees. If you have a decent amount of good thread left, this might actually be a solution worth trying.

Anyway, just trying to throw out an alternative.

[HealeyRick]

Is this a crack?

[Excaliber]

He's got perhaps an inch of original thread left, plus even the damaged thread area will help with the grip. The torque is only 85 lbs. There is some risk to a insert of any kind of repair, and you get a limited number of times to make such a repair. All things considered, I'd be tempted to give this repair method a shot before I risked getting into a more substantial repair of the block. You could always do an insert in the future if it just didn't hold over time. I'm betting it WILL hold though...

One possible caveat. I have to remove one or two head bolt studs to gain clearance to remove my head with the engine in the car. If thats the case, you have to go with an insert of some kind.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

He's got perhaps an inch of original thread left, plus even the damaged thread area will help with the grip.

How many threads? Did you know that the first thread on a bolt takes a third of the load and the first three threads take 75% of the load? What's more, the first six threads take the entire load. Numbers seven and above are under no load at all. Thus, if you've got six good threads, you have the equivalent of an infinitely long bolt.

[Excaliber]

Rick, no it's not, we covered that question earlier in the thread, something about a silicone bead track I think it was.

Pat, based on your number of threads to holding power if there is an "inch" of depth (good threads) in that hole a stud and some "glue" would be an adequate repair! Or so I would guess, not being able to see the hole or count the threads. That's Undy's job.

[Excaliber]

...I was going to use JB Weld, this stuff looks better. But JB Weld is pretty awesome!!

[undy]

That's the ragged edge of the piece of gasket I tore of a intake gasket for the pressure test block-off plate. You can se a similar torn edge for the other side. C'mon guys, give me more credit than that

No way I'm going to throw the chicken bones to see what kind of "glue" I'm going to use on the thread repair. I've got to much time, sweat, blood and $$ tied up in this motor to take a chance like that. After much research and without question, I'll use the BIG-SERT. It's used for failed threads that were repaired or that originally had a heli-coil or similar spiral-wound thread device. The OEMs use them as well as major shops. The TIME/BIG-SERTS carry more load the the heli-coils do and being totally enclosed repeated ins and outs are not a problem. They "lock in" to the hole better too.

Those are my intentions, but... I'm not ordering anything yet, not till I know what I'm up against. I'll yank the heads next Sunday (temperature permitting) for a Monday machine shop drop-off and also do a close thread inspect. I want to take a detailed look-see at a good hole along with the bad one. I also need to see what it's going to take to get the old helicoil out without boogerin' the side wall of the hole up too much. I don't really know at this time how much wall thickness I have either.

http://www.timesert.com/html/bigsert.html

[madmaxx]

I actually attemped to use that stuff once, didn't work, I guess I did not do something right. One thing about cylinder blocks and heads is the thermal cycling, I doubt this has the same coefficient of thermal expansion. Sure it can take 300F but can it take giong back and forth 100's of times.

Usually if a bolt does not pull out during tightening it wont. Reason be when being tightened the threads see both tension and torsion, when tight it only sees tension.


Go to the store and find a nut that fits your stud, if you have than many threads left in the block, you are at 100%. I would pass on the glue, if anything use loctite.

[Barry_R]

Undy - sorry it took so long to see this and respond - I was tangled up with family stuff over the weekend.

You obviously found the problem. Damn.

The Pond block uses a special dedicated head stud kit with longer than normal thread engagement. In this case those are going to be a real help with the marginal thread integrity. You have to get them directly from Pond or a dealer since ARP does not sell them. The lower corner holes on an FE are problematic due to the head dowel recess reducing/lowering the thread position there.

I prefer helicoils myself - I have had timeserts pull out and break. The pulled upper threads will act as a drill guide, although a 1" hunk of aluminum with holes for the pulled bolt and an adjoining one is better - you want to keep those studs straight.

Do it like the surgeons on TV - tape off everything with plastic and just open up the spot you're working on.

I just use Fel-Pro 1020 head gaskets, nothing special. Cometics are good parts but I do not like the fact that they do not have emboss beads around the coolant openings on FEs. That potentially lets coolant migrate across the head and co-mingle with teh oil feed to the rockers.

[Excaliber]

If the studs are Pond/Dove/Shelby specific, I'm surprised they would sell the block without them. Or at least strongly encourage their use. Strange...

[undy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

If the studs are Pond/Dove/Shelby specific, I'm surprised they would sell the block without them. Or at least strongly encourage their use. Strange...

I was never told about them. Yesterday was the first I'd heard that there was such a thing. I'd originally bought just an short block so I never ordered any studs. I'l be calling Pond this morning as soon as they're open for advice, price and availability.

[Excaliber]

That was basically my point Undy, I suspect you WOULD have used them had they advised you to, talked about the issues and such. It just seems like the alloy block companies are doing a dis-service to their customers by not discussing this critical issue.