Torquing intake manifold bolts question

[Bernica]

Good call Dan!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Good call Dan!

Thank you.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave - we are running out of ideas here - but here is one more - remove the two bolts securing the fuel log and move fuel log out of the way. Replace the bolts with studs and w/o fuel log, install and torque the nuts to 25 ft lbs. Install the fuel log over the remaining threaded stud and install additional nuts to secure it. Have a beer.

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

As with any stud fitment, they only need to "nipped up", a little over finger tight is enough.

Should be easily removeable as stated by others here.

Gary

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

[undy]

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

Originally Posted by undy

With regards to your stripped intake bolt, that was one of my problems during assembly... I had to come up with a solution.

All the bolt kits out there seem to be designed around cast iron heads, where they don't need to go as deep into the heads because they're grabbing iron. I solved my problem by "inventing" a set of stainless steel intake studs. No one else had made a set. I bought some hardened stainless steel all-thread from a local fastener supplier. I went to work measuring, cutting, chamfering and hack-sawing a slot in one end for a screwdriver install. You can run them down, all the way to the hole's bottom. That utilizes ALL the threads, not just 50% or so of them. Since then I've NEVER had another stripped hole or leaking gasket. They torque down very solid now. In addition, they make it real easy to bolt down other items like throttle linkages, halon fire extinguishing lines etc.

I also ended up helicoiling the stripped 3 hole, utilizing their 1" long helicoils.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

That should do it. Did you use any thread sealer or thread locker on the studs?

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

Thanks for the sources Dan. I was going to start tomorrow by calling ARP. As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?. Of course they are going to have to be black so they match the other fasteners. Of course if if I do your stud idea, the nuts will have to be black. Sucks being Anal!!!
Yes, I agree, raising the fuel log should not be an issue. I just looked at it and I think just shorter fuel bowl lines will be it.. Of course the nuts holding down the log will be right next to the runner and the log will still be in the way to torque them to 15 lbs as suggested. These however I am not worried about and "Good n Tight" should be fine just to hold down the log!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?.

Dave - I don't have a spare one lying around but back on post #17 Blykins said they are 3/8 inch coarse thread so that would be 3/8 - 16.

[CHANMADD]

How about this........A 1 foot long wrench/spanner pulled with 25 lbs of force at the 1 foot mark will give you what you want. Use one of those kitchen spring scales with a hook

[davids2toys]

I emailed the previous owner. He said those two 12 point bolts came with the Blue Thunder manifold. They are special 12 points because it is the only bolts that will fit in that confined area. He said he tightened them with a 12 point box end wrench, carb OFF.
He got the fuel log a few years later from one of the builders and just used the same bolts

Next move, carb off!

[Gaz64]

Yes, carb off, if that's what you need to do.

Should have more swinging room then.

[davids2toys]

Hopefully a better situation than now!

[davids2toys]

Understood Dan, thanks

[davids2toys]

Well my laziness kicked me in the a**. I took the carb back off and things became more do-able. Still difficult, but do-able. The front fastener that I thought was going to be the more difficult of the two proved to be the easier of the two. For that rear one I end up using a 1/4 inch drive 12 point swivel universal socket combo, 4" extension and a 1/4' to 3/8" step up adapter (made in Taiwan), it did not break! All ten fasteners Torqued to 25 ft lbs. I also needed to compute on a few of them for the added length of the wrench. . I ended up setting the wrench at 23.5 for those. I am happy because now I have a good starting point. I will search for any vacuum leaks once I get it running again. Also took off the distributor cap off to gain access to the front driver side bolt. Good thing I did because my terminals INSIDE the cap had lots of blue corrosion on them. This was a new MSD street-fire cap less than two years ago with only 1000 miles on it!. I cleaned them off with scotch-bite along with the edge of the rotor. I applied a little dielectric grease on all the terminals inside the cap and on the edge of the rotor. I don't know if this is the smartest move. Worst that can happen is that is doesn't run. I will then just clean it off. I also put lots of grease around the sealing lip and the points adjusting sliding door of the cap. I wonder why the terminals are corroding so much?

Thanks everybody for your help. Hopefully this longer than expected thread will help somebody in the future. Biggest advice for a Blue Thunder manifold...CARB OFF!
I had an Aluminum manifold (don't recall the make) on my last Cobra. Also a 428. I routinely re-torque everything one a year. I remember doing the manifold with the carb and Turkey pan in place with no issues at all. I guess that is what threw me.
Dave

[DanEC]

Let us know what happens with the Dielectric grease on the distributor cap terminals. Not sure I would try that although I use in on all sorts of electrical connections and have never had an issue. Dielectric grease is supposed to inhibit electrical conductivity but most spade type connectors make hard physical contact and scrape through the grease to make connection.

Not sure about a distributor cap where there is an air gap - it may inhibit spark energy across the gap. Heck - I don't know, maybe it will increase potential and increase spark energy??? They make a conductive grease that is better suited for this sort of thing but I haven't run across it - would need to find it on-line.

[davids2toys]

Exactly my thoughts Dan. I use it liberally on anything that makes hard contact, plug wires /both ends, battery terminals, spade connectors etc, etc.
I am a ways from running at this time but I will let you know

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Exactly my thoughts Dan. I use it liberally on anything that makes hard contact, plug wires /both ends, battery terminals, spade connectors etc, etc.
I am a ways from running at this time but I will let you know

Reminds me of when I was a kid and always washing the engine compartment of my Plymouth which of course got the inside of the distributor cap wet and resulted in having to dry it out with towels, etc, etc, to get it started. Someone told me to spray it with WD40 and reinstall it and it would start fine. I was highly suspicious of this until I tried it - to young and ignorant to know what WD40 stood for at the time.