Torquing intake manifold bolts question

[blykins]

Ok, it's an ARP bolt. 3/8" head.

What about a 3/8" drive ratchet, with a 3/8" socket and a universal joint?

[Bernica]

Yup, I'd say that's tight!
I'm with the others. Just reef it with a good 12-point spanner. You can practice on one that is accessible and check your "reef" with a torque wrench to get the feel for it.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ok, it's an ARP bolt. 3/8" head.

What about a 3/8" drive ratchet, with a 3/8" socket and a universal joint?

I think I would have done that about a week ago.

[DanEC]

Dave - we are running out of ideas here - but here is one more - remove the two bolts securing the fuel log and move fuel log out of the way. Replace the bolts with studs and w/o fuel log, install and torque the nuts to 25 ft lbs. Install the fuel log over the remaining threaded stud and install additional nuts to secure it. Have a beer.

[Bernica]

Good call Dan!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Good call Dan!

Thank you.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by blykins

Ok, it's an ARP bolt. 3/8" head.

What about a 3/8" drive ratchet, with a 3/8" socket and a universal joint?

Brent, there is no room and the angle is way to severe. Might possibly be a little better with the carb off and using an extension. That flex head open wrench combo arrived from ebay today. I was so tired when I ordered it, I did not notice it was 6 point. ! cant seem to find them in 12 point unless you want to pay 300-400 bucks!!! This style wrench will definitely work if I can find it in 12 point.
I am now thinking of taking the (2) 12 point bolts out and go get some 6 points in the same lengths and hardness. I know these must be a little longer to accommodate the fuel log.Would you know the hardness and if this length is available in 6 point? I don't know the length or even the size of the thread of the bolt

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave - we are running out of ideas here - but here is one more - remove the two bolts securing the fuel log and move fuel log out of the way. Replace the bolts with studs and w/o fuel log, install and torque the nuts to 25 ft lbs. Install the fuel log over the remaining threaded stud and install additional nuts to secure it. Have a beer.

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Yup, I'd say that's tight!
I'm with the others. Just reef it with a good 12-point spanner. You can practice on one that is accessible and check your "reef" with a torque wrench to get the feel for it.

A spanner is a dogbone right? As I said earlier, No room for it!

[CHANMADD]

How about this........A 1 foot long wrench/spanner pulled with 25 lbs of force at the 1 foot mark will give you what you want. Use one of those kitchen spring scales with a hook

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

UNREAL Dan, pretty damn clever! Nice.

Would I have to bottom out the stud in the head or loctite it? It would locate the log a little higher. Thickness of the nut and washer, probably about 3/8". Should be enough room left to get a nut to hold it down and in place. Do studs have an Allen head so you can turn them in? Would you happen to know the size and length? Is there a proper procedure for installing studs?
Thanks...Dave

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

[undy]

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

Originally Posted by undy

With regards to your stripped intake bolt, that was one of my problems during assembly... I had to come up with a solution.

All the bolt kits out there seem to be designed around cast iron heads, where they don't need to go as deep into the heads because they're grabbing iron. I solved my problem by "inventing" a set of stainless steel intake studs. No one else had made a set. I bought some hardened stainless steel all-thread from a local fastener supplier. I went to work measuring, cutting, chamfering and hack-sawing a slot in one end for a screwdriver install. You can run them down, all the way to the hole's bottom. That utilizes ALL the threads, not just 50% or so of them. Since then I've NEVER had another stripped hole or leaking gasket. They torque down very solid now. In addition, they make it real easy to bolt down other items like throttle linkages, halon fire extinguishing lines etc.

I also ended up helicoiling the stripped 3 hole, utilizing their 1" long helicoils.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

I got fed up with intake leaks and stripped bolt holes so I made my own studs...

That should do it. Did you use any thread sealer or thread locker on the studs?

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

The above is a good idea.

You can get a stud with male or female hex on the end.

Because of it's small drive, I would install them with a "smear" of anti-seize, nipped only, then fit the manifold nuts, torque to 25 lbft, then fit the fuel log, torque to 10-15 lbft.

Gary

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

[undy]

Originally Posted by DanEC

That should do it. Did you use any thread sealer or thread locker on the studs?

I did not. You really can't as the studs need to be removable. You can't pull the intake without removing the studs first, hence the screw drive slots on the stud ends. Since going to studs ( 6 or 7 years ago) I've not had to retighten them once, checked but not tightened. The added stud lengths allows for throttle linkage, fuel logs, halon nozzles etc attachment points too.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Dave -

From what I can find out the center intake bolts are 2-5/8 inch long. If anyone knows any differently please chime in.

So you would probably be looking for 3 inch studs or possibly a 3-1/4 inch stud. ARPs site is hard to navigate for an exact bolt or stud but on Dorman's site I found these that look pretty close.

Dorman Products - 675-006

I found these on the McMaster web site. You can pretty much find any combination of length, fully threaded or partially threaded stud on it.

McMaster-Carr

ARP would be the most likely to have a stud with allen head recess or a screw driver slot in the top. If you have a dremel it would be pretty easy to add a screw driver slot to the top. I would probably install them with some blue thread locker to secure it in the block.

Just based on my motor I can't see how positioning the fuel log slightly higher should create an issue. If the fuel log is hard piped to an OEM type canister filter the line fittings would need to be loosened to re-position it and then re-tightened.

Thanks for the sources Dan. I was going to start tomorrow by calling ARP. As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?. Of course they are going to have to be black so they match the other fasteners. Of course if if I do your stud idea, the nuts will have to be black. Sucks being Anal!!!
Yes, I agree, raising the fuel log should not be an issue. I just looked at it and I think just shorter fuel bowl lines will be it.. Of course the nuts holding down the log will be right next to the runner and the log will still be in the way to torque them to 15 lbs as suggested. These however I am not worried about and "Good n Tight" should be fine just to hold down the log!

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by undy

I did not. You really can't as the studs need to be removable. You can't pull the intake without removing the studs first, hence the screw drive slots on the stud ends. Since going to studs ( 6 or 7 years ago) I've not had to retighten them once, checked but not tightened. The added stud lengths allows for throttle linkage, fuel logs, halon nozzles etc attachment points too.

Undy - do you remember how long you cut your studs? Max available stud length would always be a good idea.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

As I said, I am also thinking of pulling the (2)12 points and get (2) 6 points. would you know the grade of the steel and is 3/8-16 the correct thread or were you just giving me an example?.

Dave - I don't have a spare one lying around but back on post #17 Blykins said they are 3/8 inch coarse thread so that would be 3/8 - 16.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

Good info...what do you mean "nipped"?

As with any stud fitment, they only need to "nipped up", a little over finger tight is enough.

Should be easily removeable as stated by others here.

Gary