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 4Likes
06-06-2016, 03:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Virginia Beach, Va & Port Charlotte, Fl.,
Posts: 2,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC
Undy - do you remember how long you cut your studs? Max available stud length would always be a good idea.
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I just used a long nail and stuck it down the intake hole till it bottomed out in the head then measured the nail length. I then added 1" to the measurement and cut the stud(s) to that length. |
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06-06-2016, 04:05 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
ct
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
Posts: 922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC
Dave - I don't have a spare one lying around but back on post #17 Blykins said they are 3/8 inch coarse thread so that would be 3/8 - 16.
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Thanks
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-06-2016, 04:08 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz64
As with any stud fitment, they only need to "nipped up", a little over finger tight is enough.
Should be easily removeable as stated by others here.
Gary
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Got it, thanks
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-06-2016, 08:47 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Went out to play with it little today. I did notice all the 6 point bolts say "ARP" in the head. These two 12 points say "DB" in the head? I got the easier to access one out with the 12 point wrench/socket combo. If this this was a 1/16 longer it would not have come out because it was wedged up against the runner. The front one is much worse, I have no idea how that one is going to get past the runner unless it is a shorter bolt.
First I put a 1 foot long 7/8 wrench on the end to gain leverage. That did not work. Then I tried a 2 foot long pipe, that worked but cracked the socket ear where the pin goes thru. There was some oil on the bolt when I took it out. For ref, this is the 4th bolt back from the front, PASS side. It measures 2 3/16 from bottom of flange to the very end of the bolt threads. Also, all the other manifold bolts have a built in flange under the head. I did not try and take out the front bolt because of the socket issue. This bolt is the 2nd one from the front, do you think it would be the same length? It seems to sit a little lower in the manifold.
I will post a few pics.
Believe it or not, the local nutty bolt company has black 6 point with a built in flange. they also have stud, fully threaded only. They have black nuts too, but only with the built in washer. All of the bolts, studs, and nuts are grade 8.
Dave
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-06-2016, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
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It took that much force to loosen the bolt? Kind of surprising. Where did that wrench come from?
Some (or all) of the manifold end bolts are much shorter bolts - not sure if short ones are in front, in the back, or in the front and back.
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06-06-2016, 09:26 AM
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Senior CC Premier Member
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SoCal,
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Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader
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First, I have to say that is the cheapest piece of S*** wrench I have seen. I have no tolerance for cheap tools, but that's just me! 
The bolt appears to be a Darling Bolt Company product.
Darling Bolt Company - Since 1958 Darling Bolt Company has been America's fastener specialist
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All that's stopping you now Son, is blind-raging fear.......
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06-06-2016, 09:37 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
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[quote=Bernica;1393957]First, I have to say that is the cheapest piece of S*** wrench I have seen. I have no tolerance for cheap tools, but that's just me!
QUOTE]
But it says Drop Forged. Possibly that meant they dropped this one on the way to the forge.  |
06-06-2016, 05:53 PM
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No spanner is ever designed to have an additional length added to it for leverage.
They are all designed as a hand tool, on their own.
Any wonder it failed.
Snap-on would have a chance.
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06-06-2016, 06:04 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz64
No spanner is ever designed to have an additional length added to it for leverage.
They are all designed as a hand tool, on their own.
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Ahh, clearly you are not familiar with "The Extender." http://www.rizzenterprises.com/html/..._extender.html |
06-06-2016, 06:19 PM
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A good idea to an old problem, but it still places the spanner under more load than it was designed for.
We've all done it at some stage.
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06-06-2016, 09:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Yes, totally frustrating. So what is the deal with this being called a spanner. I know what a spanner wrench is. The word spanner has been used a lot in this thread, what exactly are we talking about when using that word. I was thinking it was meaning a dog-bone from what I was gathering...guess not!
Yes, obviously not a very good tool but it is the only thing that will get in there. Whats is worse is I cannot find a 12 point version of this tool, only 6 point. My buddy told me that thing was like 40 years old
I bought a couple of fasteners and studs today. Even the 2 1/4 Allen hex head, I cannot get it in because of the little extra width at the top wont get by the intake runner. That great stud idea also isn't looking to promising , again because of the additional length, angle of the hole and the location of the runner I cant see this working. By measuring the total depth(about 2 1/2", the bolt that was in there was grabbing about 1" of threads in the head. So even if I went with that amount of grip, the stud would have to be about 2 7/8 total length. There is no way that is going in.
This is the better of the two holes, the front one is much worse!
I also talked to ARP tonight, I need to called them back. ARP bolts have the built in washer that measures .620 wide, that will never work. Hopefully they have bolts that do not have the washer built in and I can buy them separately.
Also need to get that front bolt out so I can measure it vs. total depth of the hole. I will try the flare 12 point crows foot. I will probably break that tool too because it is 1/4 drive and I think because it is cut out to go over a line it will not hold the size. It is a Snap-on, so it might. The 1/4 to 3/8 adapter will probably shear off anyway before I get a chance to find out.
Another thought is to take one or two threads off the 2 1/4" Allen bolts so I can get them in. That would mean less thread engagement in the head. I think 1/8-3/16 off might do it,. That would mean about 3/4"-7/8' thread engagement. Last thing I want to do is pull the thread out of the head! Anybody know the minimum safe thread engagement needed for aluminum heads?
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-06-2016, 09:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernica
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Nice find. I might call them and see what they have for options.
Thanks
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-07-2016, 03:00 PM
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David,
I would not even try with a stepdown 3/8 1/4 adaptor.
We all know it will break.
Can you post a photo of the bolts you are trying to do?
Gary
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06-07-2016, 04:44 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davids2toys
Anybody know the minimum safe thread engagement needed for aluminum heads?
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The rule of thumb for steel is 1.5 times the bolt diameter. I can't find anything for aluminum. IMO I would feel very comfortable at 2.5 times bolt diameter which is 15/16 inch. At 25 ft lbs you may be fine at 2X bolt diameter. If you are talking with ARP you might ask them this question. |
06-07-2016, 05:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaz64
David,
I would not even try with a stepdown 3/8 1/4 adaptor.
We all know it will break.
Can you post a photo of the bolts you are trying to do?
Gary
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Yes, "we" do all know it is going to break!
PICS, See post #75
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-07-2016, 05:12 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanEC
The rule of thumb for sEeel is 1.5 times the bolt diameter. I can't find anything for aluminum. IMO I would feel very comfortable at 2.5 times bolt diameter which is 15/16 inch. At 25 ft lbs you may be fine at 2X bolt diameter. If you are talking with ARP you might ask them this question.
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Very good Dan, I will. Perhaps Edelbrock also?
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-07-2016, 05:42 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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I emailed the previous owner. He said those two 12 point bolts came with the Blue Thunder manifold. They are special 12 points because it is the only bolts that will fit in that confined area. He said he tightened them with a 12 point box end wrench, carb OFF.
He got the fuel log a few years later from one of the builders and just used the same bolts
Next move, carb off!
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-07-2016, 05:49 PM
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Yes, carb off, if that's what you need to do.
Should have more swinging room then.
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06-08-2016, 04:58 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Southbury,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA, 428, 4 speed Toploader, Jag rear, Red with White stripes
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Hopefully a better situation than now!
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ERA#698 428, 4 speed Toploader, 3:31 Jag rear
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06-08-2016, 10:23 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Little Rock area,
AR
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31
Posts: 4,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davids2toys
Very good Dan, I will. Perhaps Edelbrock also?
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Possibly - if they are willing to express an opinion.
I should have added their are a lot of variables to a "rule of thumb". Fine thread bolts typically need a bit less engagement than coarse thread. Also will depend on the condition of the holes and threads in your heads as to what they will take. Best to get as much thread engagement as you can. |
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