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11-18-2003, 12:55 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Woodinville,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: VICTORY, 92 C.I., belt drive, saddle bags.
Posts: 666
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Not Ranked
Spinners from Hell
Quote:
Not to beat a dead horse (so to speak) but there was an old thread in the earlier days of this site in which a member recanted his tales of woe about trying to beat his spinners off with a lead hammer. He included pics of the hammer in its terminal state and it wasn't recognizable as a tool.
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Yup... Chopper.. that was me:
http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...ners+from+Hell
I stand by the fact that very little torque need be applied to the spinner. The pins are taking the load, not the face of the wheel hub.
Anti-sieze compound will resolve any spalling issues with the aluminum on aluminum. I replace my bent spinner with another aluminum one considering the much higher price of retro-fitting all four with stainless. So far... super good.
That was a nice hammer, eh?
Respectfully,
Zderf
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11-18-2003, 03:29 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: California,
Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
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Not Ranked
This topic is getting "BEAT TO DEATH".
__________________
Rick
As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way
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11-18-2003, 07:38 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Prescott Valley,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Previous ERA owner on break
Posts: 600
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Not Ranked
Spinners from hell, round 3...
Zderf and company:
Following my earlier post, I came home and finished drilling the safety wire holes in the tangs of the stainless steel replacement spinners and installed them. When I removed the old aluminum spinners, two of the four are now showing pitting and galling over a narrow (approximately 1/16 inch wide) band around the entire circumference of the beveled mating surface. The other two are showing similar galling over about 1/2 of the circumference. The galling is located at the outboard edge of the bevel, just below the tangs. All four exhibit a similar pattern, varying only in the length of the pitting. As a result, I consider the old spinners to be unusable. In my defense, I'll state that I have never overtorqued them during installation. I usually seat the spinners with a couple of light taps to each tang with a dead-blow hammer, lower the car to the ground and give each tang a good whack with the same hammer. I then safety-wire the spinners to the wheel spokes before driving the car.
As I stated in my earlier thread, I've talked with several folks who are far more educated in metallurgy than I, and all have said that mating aluminum to aluminum as in this installation will eventually result in this type of reaction between the pieces. Based on the particular pattern I saw on my spinners, it may well be that the angle of the mating surface of the spinner does not match exactly with the angle of the mating surface of the wheel, resulting in a stress concentration along the narrow band which ultimately seized up. If this is the case, seemingly normal tightening torque would result in excessive pressure at the points of contact between the two mating surfaces, and this would certainly contribute to the galling/seizing which I have experienced. Perhaps some sort of test with plasti-gage, such as used for the engine main bearings, would be able to tell; but at this point, I figured I was better off just replacing the aluminum spinners with stainless steel ones. I'm hoping that will resolve the problem permanently. Besides, the car was obviously feeling neglected since I haven't spent any money on it in a couple of months.
__________________
Some folks drink from the fountain of knowledge; others just gargle.
Yesterday's flower children are today's blooming idiots.
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11-18-2003, 08:12 PM
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CC Member / Sponsor
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Provo,
UT
Cobra Make, Engine: Daytona Coupe
Posts: 1,356
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Not Ranked
The pegs are only holding the wheel in place relitive to the hub. The wheel is being held on with the wing nut. The pegs are only taking the torques being applied by the brakes and/or the engine. The wing nut is what is keeping the wheel on and in place when the vehicle as it is going around a corner. I personaly do not want the rim moving relative to the hub. Think about the huge forces on the rim and wing nut when you are pulling one G in a corner. I personally put the wing nuts on very tight. I do not trust safety wire to keep the wing nuts on. I, however, am fantic about using saftey wire. I hope everyone, especially those who are trusting their lives on safety wire are very careful about not nicking the wire. I also hope that you have put a nice smooth chamfers on the back of the holes you drilled in your wing nuts. Bent ears on wing nuts are a lot cheaper than a trip to the ER. I will get off my box now...
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11-18-2003, 08:25 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
Posts: 2,780
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Not Ranked
Well said Tom. It's those little details that get you if neglected. As a pilot, I "pre-flight" the cobra for the reasons you describe above.
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11-18-2003, 08:37 PM
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CC Member / Sponsor
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Provo,
UT
Cobra Make, Engine: Daytona Coupe
Posts: 1,356
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Not Ranked
Also as a side note: The wing nuts and the rims should be broken in to each other. The wing nut is put on with anti sieze against the rim. Put the wing nut on with a couple of taps (not real hard). Take off the wing nut and check for any metal transfer. Clean off the transferred metal (this will be a high spot) and repeat until their is no longer any metal "flakes" transferring over. Hope this helps.
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11-19-2003, 06:13 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Woodinville,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: VICTORY, 92 C.I., belt drive, saddle bags.
Posts: 666
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Not Ranked
Pre-Flight Check
Quote:
The wing nut is what is keeping the wheel on and in place when the vehicle as it is going around a corner. I personaly do not want the rim moving relative to the hub. Think about the huge forces on the rim and wing nut when you are pulling one G in a corner.
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Tom, your right, and I did not mean to minimize the importance of proper torquing to assure that lateral loads on the wheels are held at bay.
As well, I should have mentioned that I reface all mating surfaces with emery cloth and a buffer prior to every reassembly. I remove, reface, re-antisieze, and re-torque, and re-safety wire all whells and spinners twice each year. The holes in the spinner ears for the safetywire should be spot faced on both sides with a counter sink tool after drilling. I use aircraft grade 0.028" stainless safetywire.
I will stand firm regarding the issue of "bending" the ears of the spinner. Quite frankly, if one is bending the ears in any way whatsoever.... you've got other issues going on.
As for "pre-flight" check, I wire my spinners with a little bit of slack. Thataway, I can quickly tell prior to each launch if a spinner is backing off.. as the wire pulls tight. 6,000 miles over 36 months has produced not one tight wire set..... and there have been a number of "sideways" miles included.
As Rick Parker said.... some more beating must be in order.
Respectfully,
Zderf
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11-19-2003, 12:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Prescott Valley,
AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Previous ERA owner on break
Posts: 600
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Not Ranked
Tom Kirkham:
Yes, when I drilled the holes, I cleaned the sharp edges off. I completely agree with you in that I would never depend on simple 0.032 safety wire to hold the spinners (and hence, the wheels) on. The safety wire is put on slightly loose in order to give me an indication that the spinner has loosened on the hub before I get in and start the engine, just as Zderf states.
As I observed earlier, this discussion should explain very clearly why spinners were outlawed from racing years ago.
__________________
Some folks drink from the fountain of knowledge; others just gargle.
Yesterday's flower children are today's blooming idiots.
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11-19-2003, 12:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: scottsdale,az,
Posts: 733
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Not Ranked
Guys, beat that spinner on. I have had one come loose and it also broke the safety wire. The safety wire is only a warning. Check your wires before you drive every time, if one is tight, the spinner is backing off. When taking them off it is a pain in the rear. It does make it a little easier if you hit all 3 ears instead of only one ear, comes off easier. Scott
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03-29-2004, 03:07 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,555
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by ToyCollector
I Check the wife every now and again. I actually check my friend's wifes when I see them as a favor and remember to do it.
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Thanks, Mike!
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03-29-2004, 03:59 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Alpharetta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: Sold - Unique FIA - SA 396 Stroker
Posts: 2,440
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally posted by southernfriedcj
Thanks, Mike!
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You beat me to it SF
All this wheel beating makes me glad I couldn't afford pin drives. My lug nuts come off every time I put the impact wrench on them.
Randy
__________________
Sold the Unique - Bought a Porsche TT - Sold the TT - Bought a truck
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03-29-2004, 04:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,555
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Not Ranked
Randy, I've tried every suggestion, but no no avail. Looks like it's time for the $189. socket or the Sawzall.
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03-29-2004, 04:53 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
GA
Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
Posts: 2,780
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Not Ranked
SFCJ,
Keep beating on it, something will come out of it.
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03-29-2004, 04:56 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2001
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,555
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TC, I beat on that thing 'til it hurt(my arm, ya prevert).
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03-29-2004, 05:53 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX Cars
Posts: 754
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Not Ranked
I made a few of these, they are cheap and work $45.00. Have a couple laying around.
Allan
__________________
A happy SAI customer
Cobra Make & Engine: Continuation Series Shelby Cobra, CSX 7034 the most accurately detailed Continuation Cobra to original specification since the demise of CSX 4027.
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05-14-2004, 08:15 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ashburton, New Zealand,
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Cobra Make, Engine: UK Ram SC. KC-Yates 373, Jerico 5 speed.
Posts: 1,240
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Not Ranked
Stainless Spinners
Tom Kirkham,
Your post makes sense to me to bed in the setup with anti-seize!
Do you people bother with the Stainless steel type Spinners?
I have just had my tires fitted and the tire guy fitted the cone to hold the wheel on to the balancer but it hit just past where the spinner goes, saw this grooved circle, and thought here goes its starting already, I will get over it!!
Also emailed Enzo Accessories and he said his are aluminim spinners, where can I get stainless spinners that fit Trigo wheels, as I am contemplating using them if there is a galling problem - but I hope there isn't as the spinners should be a lot harder than the wheels?
__________________
A J. Newton
The 1960's rocked!
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05-14-2004, 08:43 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 999
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Not Ranked
Center lock nuts/ spinners should be torqued to 400 ft./lbs.
This is common knowledge in the pits. Using a gun we have to hook it to a big nitrogen bottle to get the suckers loose. At 400 lbs. they still need to be checked after every run as they may have loosened 3 degrees or so. Also, remember the temp of the assembly matters.
I use a torque wrench(48" long 3/4" drive).
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05-14-2004, 09:09 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ashburton, New Zealand,
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Cobra Make, Engine: UK Ram SC. KC-Yates 373, Jerico 5 speed.
Posts: 1,240
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Not Ranked
Spinners
Johan, do you recommend a lubricant for this setup?
I have seen the guys with the touring cars using torque wrenches, I think the knock off principal maybe a bit antiquated!
__________________
A J. Newton
The 1960's rocked!
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05-14-2004, 09:30 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 999
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Not Ranked
Yes, anti-sieze compound on the bevel of the nut.
Wing dings are for show , big nuts are for go...!
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05-16-2004, 10:45 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: North Carolina,
Posts: 60
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Not Ranked
Just to confirm, should the anti-seize go on just the area where the spinner (aka: knock-off, wing nut, etc) meets the wheel face or should it go on the both the area where the spinner/wheel meets AND on the threads for the hub/adapter and spinner?
Thanks.
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