Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[1ntCobra]

Sometimes I find it useful to quote myself instead of the SAAC registry.

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I was just looking around and found a Cobra coffee mug that I got at Shelby in Vegas years ago. It says "OWN THE REAL THING". Note: the capitalization of letters in that quote is as found on the mug and I am not trying to shout. Hmm, Shelby American is definitely stating that their newfangled Shelby Cobras (continuation, replica or however you like describe them) are REAL Shelby Cobras.

Of course I got that coffee mug at the old original Shelby location in Vegas near the racetrack, not the new less original location closer to the casinos. I am pretty sure that everyone here will agree that my coffee mug bought at the old location is better than any replica mug purchased from the gift shop at the new location regardless of the materials or suppliers used to make any of the newer replica mugs, but that is getting off track a bit.

You know if I went to a car show and my dad asked me if a car he is pointing at is a "real" cobra, I would probably say "no" if that car was not an original cobra from the 1960s. I might also say it is not a "real" cobra because he is probably pointing at a Miata or a Corvette anyway.

Yet my coffee mug, a great source of wisdom and authority from Shelby himself says that his newfangled cobras are "REAL" too. Perhaps this is just a matter of capitalization? Maybe the cars from the 1960s are "real" Shelby Cobras, but the continuations are "REAL" Shelby Cobras. Hmm, no, it cannot be that simple.

So I am going to have to conclude that continuation cobras are both "real" and "not real" at the same time. It is a paradox. A great mystery of the universe.

I also conclude that Joe's Garage, Evan, Thor and friends are all equally right in their thoughts. Further they are all cuddly and lovable and yet extremely annoying at the same time. On no is that another paradox? I just hope that these paradoxes don't cause the universe to start to unravel.

Considering that Shelby American (at least back in the Amy B days) used the slogan "OWN THE REAL THING", it is quite possible that Carroll Shelby himself approved of calling the continuation Cobras, "the real thing". Now that might imply that continuation Cobras are Coke-a-Cola, but more likely I think it might imply that they are likely "real" Shelby Cobras.

Evan,

If Carroll Shelby used the term "real" to describe his continuation Shelby Cobras I think he would be OK with you calling your car "real" too. Why do you need SAAC's approval if the Shelby himself thought it was OK. If the man was OK with "real", I guess I am OK with it too.

Now if you call your car "original" or claim that Carroll personally installed your hood scoop to get the rivet patter just right, I am going to be upset with you. I will be watching to keep you in line...

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Sometimes I find it useful to quote myself instead of the SAAC registry.



Considering that Shelby American (at least back in the Amy B days) used the slogan "OWN THE REAL THING", it is quite possible that Carroll Shelby himself approved of calling the continuation Cobras, "the real thing". Now that might imply that continuation Cobras are Coke-a-Cola, but more likely I think it might imply that they are likely "real" Shelby Cobras.

Evan,

If Carroll Shelby used the term "real" to describe his continuation Shelby Cobras I think he would be OK with you calling your car "real" too. Why do you need SAAC's approval if the Shelby himself thought it was OK. If the man was OK with "real", I guess I am OK with it too.

Now if you call your car "original" or claim that Carroll personally installed your hood scoop to get the rivet patter just right, I am going to be upset with you. I will be watching to keep you in line...

I hope my SAAC friends are not paying attention... If you are and want to unfriend me on facebook, remember my real name is, umm, Bill, wait no, ... how about, Vernon, ... ah yeah that's it.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

If Carroll Shelby used the term "real" to describe his continuation Shelby Cobras I think he would be OK with you calling your car "real" too. Why do you need SAAC's approval if the Shelby himself thought it was OK. If the man was OK with "real", I guess I am OK with it too.

Now if you call your car "original" or claim that Carroll personally installed your hood scoop to get the rivet patter just right, I am going to be upset with you. I will be watching to keep you in line...

The night I bought my Cobra at Barrett Jackson was before the time in the auction when we sold a car with proceeds to the Shelby Foundation. I spoke with Carroll on the phone and we chatted about the donation, etc. Then I told him I'd bought a CSX Cobra a few hours before [thankfully the TV coverage blinked for a commercial and I got to tell my wife on the phone instead of the camera that was shoved in my face]. Carroll was more excited about me getting the CSX4005LA car than the donation. He congratulated me on getting a real cobra, but was more intrigued that it was one of the HST Carbon Fiber cars and said he thought they were some of the best looking ones. I still think the quality of the finish was excellent. That was probably due to the clientele that HST was working with for that group of cars.

[1ntCobra]

Another thought just occurred to me on while I was on this thread, but I hope you don't mind that it is sort of getting off track because it does not have anything to do with watches.

A few years ago when my son lost a tooth, I put his tooth under my pillow and surprisingly I found a note and nickle from the tooth fairy saying: "HA, you can't fool me! That is not your tooth! But I am going to leave you this nickle to put in your cobra fund anyway, but it is under two conditions: 1) use the nickle for your cobra fund (not to try to pay off your divorce or some other silly thing) and 2) when you eventually get your cobra, do not paint it beige."

[Joe's Garage]

Geeze, I step out for a minute and someone presses the play button for Bojangles.

It should be clear by now that Evan lives vicariously through what is printed in the registry and a distorted sense of self-worth derived from the pages within. He doesn't own a Shelby replica, the Shelby replica owns him. He refuses to say "Shelby Cobra replica" because that would destroy the image he has of himself, the one he must uphold in the public's view, remember Evan is the owner of a REAL 1. Evan frequently refers to originals and continuations together, in his mind they are in the same category with equal prominence. In his own words "the wheat", and of course quick to tell everyone else they own "the chaff".

What a house of cards.

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Well, SAAC can change the Registry if they choose, don't really care ...

Really? If you want a real hoot read temper tantrum #27, Evan tells the SAAC National Director (aka Ron, CC moderator "computerworks") how he should conduct himself here on CC as well as with SAAC matters pertaining to the registry.

Aluminum Body Shelby Continuation rollers $160,000.00 (post #54)

Now, does this sound like a man who doesn't really care what SAAC does with the registry? Hardly, the SAAC Registry is Evan’s lifeblood.

This is how I envision encounters with Evan on the street would go down, and have many times -

"hey, is that what I think it is?"
"You bet, a real one, a genuine Shelby Cobra, the real McCoy".
I bet the gold President's Rolex is in full view to support the charade.

The pedestrian walks away tickled pink he/she just saw an original ‘60s Shelby Cobra.

It's unfortunate, the hobby needs good ambassadors, not narcissistic mouthpieces making it a measure of stature and wealth. Note original cobra owners who are in a far better position to do so don't. The irony in all of this is that if the SAAC does decide to go back to covering the historical Shelby's only, it's probably because of Evan being such a prolific actor at misrepresenting the registry, the SAAC feels compelled to put an end to it.

Carry on Evan, you are too far gone to be saved.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Now, does this sound like a man who doesn't really care what SAAC does with the registry? Hardly, the SAAC Registry is Evan’s lifeblood.

I was going to note this last night about how ironic it was that he would dismiss SAAC so easily if and when the Shelby replicas are removed from the Registry. Yet, OTOH, when it supports his position, he's a big proponent of SAAC and the Registry.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Geeze, I step out for a minute and someone presses the play button for Bojangles.

It should be clear by now that Evan lives vicariously through what is printed in the registry and a distorted sense of self-worth derived from the pages within. He doesn't own a Shelby replica, the Shelby replica owns him. He refuses to say "Shelby Cobra replica" because that would destroy the image he has of himself, the one he must uphold in the public's view, remember Evan is the owner of a REAL 1. Evan frequently refers to originals and continuations together, in his mind they are in the same category with equal prominence. In his own words "the wheat", and of course quick to tell everyone else they own "the chaff".

What a house of cards.



Really? If you want a real hoot read temper tantrum #27, Evan tells the SAAC National Director (aka Ron, CC moderator "computerworks") how he should conduct himself here on CC as well as with SAAC matters pertaining to the registry.

Aluminum Body Shelby Continuation rollers $160,000.00 (post #54)

Now, does this sound like a man who doesn't really care what SAAC does with the registry? Hardly, the SAAC Registry is Evan’s lifeblood.

This is how I envision encounters with Evan on the street would go down, and have many times -

"hey, is that what I think it is?"
"You bet, a real one, a genuine Shelby Cobra, the real McCoy".
I bet the gold President's Rolex is in full view to support the charade.

The pedestrian walks away tickled pink he/she just saw an original ‘60s Shelby Cobra.

It's unfortunate, the hobby needs good ambassadors, not narcissistic mouthpieces making it a measure of stature and wealth. Note original cobra owners who are in a far better position to do so don't. The irony in all of this is that if the SAAC does decide to go back to covering the historical Shelby's only, it's probably because of Evan being such a prolific actor at misrepresenting the registry, the SAAC feels compelled to put an end to it.

Carry on Evan, you are too far gone to be saved.

I happen to be a very good ambassador of the hobby. Been involved in it for nearly 17 years. Made many friends in the hobby. I don't insult people personally or stoop to those levels to make my point. Apparently makes you feel better about yourself. When people discuss my car with me I am honest as to what it is and love to discuss it. It does draw crowds and people get more excited when the learn its a Shelby Continuation Cobra. Just my observations.

You like to take statements out of context which is a dishonest way of having discourse. You seem to think that your point is made by insulting and trying to belittle people who disagree. Doesn't phase me though. Stick and stones and all that.

The "Chaff" statement was made in the context of what is "better" to me in a thread discussing the subject of what is "better. I stated what is "better" to me and what fits my criteria. If you want a Shelby Cobra and that's your criteria the rest is chaff obviously as to that criteria. If you want a FFR for various reasons/criteria or a SPF for various reasons/criteria or a Kirkham and only that will fit your criteria the rest is chaff as to that criteria. I stated my position and what I meant but you seem to keep trying to smear me with using it out of context. Carry on.

I'm not narcissistic at all. You obviously don't own a dictionary. I just take pride in what I own and don't intend to denigrate it to make friends here if that's the requirement. Have plenty of friends already thanks.

As to my President's Rolex I haven't worn it in years. Still sitting in a box. Special occasions really.

You seem like a very envious individual suffering from sour grapes.

My efforts are just to keep the record straight from envious detractors such as you. In your case "nasty" envious detractor.

I like post #54. Factual and well stated. No one can change the facts. Not Ron, not Ned or anyone else for that matter. Not even the Registry should they start saying something different which doesn't comport with reality.

The 40th Edition Registry got it right. Rod Knock you keep misstating what it says. Read pages 707-708; Please see pages 27 & 30.

I do agree with the Registry and believe they got the analysis correct. If they want to change it and take a 180 that's up to them. Would I be disappointed? Sure. But in the end wouldn't care. I have a Shelby Cobra (current production Shelby Cobra) which replicates the original series cars but in the end "that there" is a Shelby Cobra out in my garage and that's the reality of it.

I think I'll take CSX 4206 for spin now. Nice afternoon.

Cheers.

P.S. Still waiting for pics of the chassis sitting on the floor.

[Xack]

Real1, I think I know what the underlying issue might be. Do you need to pull your seat forward in your "Cobra"? Do you need to tilt your head back to see over the dash?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Xack

Real1, I think I know what the underlying issue might be. Do you need to pull your seat forward in your "Cobra"? Do you need to tilt your head back to see over the dash?

Hey, you never answered by question. If Rolex's came in kits would they be real Rolexes?

Waiting.

[Calicoco]

Nice Tag Monaco... I have a Tag Carrera Chrono, and have wanted to add a Monaco. I grew up on my Grandfather's farm and about 10 yrs ago he decided to auction it all off. I asked for two items... My baling hook and a 1955 JD peddle tractor. Peddle tractor is all original except for the wheels. They needed replaced after 2 generations of kids wore them out.

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Calicoco

Nice Tag Monaco... I have a Tag Carrera Chrono, and have wanted to add a Monaco. I grew up on my Grandfather's farm and about 10 yrs ago he decided to auction it all off. I asked for two items... My baling hook and a 1955 JD peddle tractor. Peddle tractor is all original except for the wheels. They needed replaced after 2 generations of kids wore them out.

Heuer...but yes, thanks. Love Carrera's...have a Grand Carrera Chrono. (just a little bigger for my wrist), but would really like to find an older original just for the collection.

Peddle tractors...oh hell yes. There's a restaurant over in Kettleman City off I-5 that has one of the best collections I've seen...some are left in their original dirty state, which is cool too.

[Jamo]

Evan..."taking [it] for a spin"...? When the hell you gonna learn how to drive it? :P

BTW folks...there's been some good discussions but I still find that you are all still taking subtle (some not so subtle) digs at each other...sometimes simply being dismissive, sometimes just being b!tchy.

Please don't do that...pretty please. There, I asked nicely...so that part is over.

Thank you for your expected cooperation.

[Paul F]

My Dearest Evan,

It is with warm regards that I continue this intelligent discussion about cars made to look like the 1960s car called Cobra.

Yours is a replica. It is not a real one.

With best wishes to your and your family,
Paul f

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Paul F

My Dearest Evan,

It is with warm regards that I continue this intelligent discussion about cars made to look like the 1960s car called Cobra.

Yours is a replica. It is not a real one.

With best wishes to your and your family,
Paul f

Paul:

Thank you for your kind reply. Your depth of analysis to the subject at hand reflects honest effort on your part although still somewhat askew of a true path to the correct answer. While it is true my car does "replicate" the original Cobra and is the only "true replica" as defined by the esteemed Marriam Webster as it must to be a Cobra nevertheless and at the same time it's origins from Shelby American Inc., legally and factually render it an undeniable Shelby Cobra. It is not of the original grouping of Shelby Cobras that were issued from SAI between '62 and '68 of course but of the current production Continuation Series Shelby Cobras issued from SAI. Same car by shape, design and configuration coming from a direct successor company from the man who brought the original to us here in the good ol' US of A.

And let me be the first to assuage your concerns that I attempt to beguile you and others as to it's series and it's grouping. I do not misdirect on this issue to inquires but at the same time am completely proud of the fact it is a genuine Shelby Cobra of the Continuation series. To some it may not rise to the level of being a "real Cobra" ,however, this emotional reaction is pursued to escape reality such as an Ostrich escapes reality by placing it's noggin below ground.

Nor do I hold it to be self evident that the Shelby Cobra is better that all others mechanically or in design. This cannot be said universally. The original cars have much to be desired in build quality. if build quality is the criteria many FFRs are better than an original IMHO. I have seen better tubing on lawn chairs than on the original cars. What is "better" rests within our own subjective belief system. However, if your criteria is to own a Shelby no other manufacturers car will satisfy that criteria which is self evident. So if owning a Shelby is "better" to an enthusiast only one car will satisfy that "itch".

The World Registry, a world wide recognized authoritative text agrees with my analysis and states hand in hand what I have said for years.

I was ahead of the Registry in this regard.

You of course may hold true to you own personal beliefs which I suspect is rooted in emotion perhaps tinged with slight bitterness and I don't pretend to believe I will get ever concessions from you or the other nah sayers but my statements are logical, factual and supported by legal authority. Oh, and the World Registry.

Please also send my warmest to your family and loved ones.

I remain,

Very truly yours,

Real 1, (aka Evan)

[Jamo]

LMFAO...ok, that was nice. Smartass.

[jhv48]

I look forward to another 16 pages of (as Seinfeld once said) "It's a show about nothing! Absolutely nothing!"

[Paul F]

edit - deleted for continuity

[Thor maine]

1/3 of Real ,Or 1/3 genuine knockoff !!!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

1/3 of Real ,Or 1/3 genuine knockoff !!!

Yes Thor, whatever you say. Are you sure your percentages are correct.

[Thor maine]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Yes Thor, whatever you say. Are you sure your percentages are correct.

AC Cars Ltd -Shelby American - FORD made the Cobra. Forty +/- years later a derivative of one of the company's builds a replica of the Cobra from the 1960's. YUP that is a 1/3 genuine knockoff , do the math. Hey maybe you are doing that new "Common Core" math thing????