Commissioning a Turn Key ERA 427 Cobra

[FUNFER2]

You can't go wrong with Brent. He's honest and builds a great motor. He also has many other non-engine parts, like clutches ect.....

(Brent- good to see your new website) !

[blykins]

I love undercar exhaust on Cobras. I actually prefer the sound of a nice performance muffler over the sidepipe sound. It also helps to free up some ponies as some of the manufacturer sidepipes can be really restrictive.

[car4jim]

Fly girl. There must be some kind of story behind your attraction to a period correct Cobra! Please do tell!

[Flygirl]

Thanks guys, for all your help. Like a sponge, absorbing it all...

_________

The story behind the attraction:

My dad was a management executive with Ford. I was brought home from hospital, for the very first time, in a '56 Lincoln. Then came the 60s. First car I remember was a '65 Galaxie 500 convertible with the 427 and a four speed. Followed by Shelbys from '66-68, a '69 Mach 1 Convertible with the 428 Cobra Jet, four speed, and a shaker hood scoop (black with a white top and white interior, I LOVED that car!), and then a '70 Boss 302.

Dad did not like the '71 Mustang (don't know if it was the size, or the fact that Bunkie Knudsen designed it) and there was a brief interlude until the Panteras came along. Which he also didn't like so much, due to the poor workmanship and tendency to overheat. But, man, did I like being driven in them!

Then came the dark ages and my first car, a '73 Pinto Runabout, which I still own, followed by the Bronco years.

I was gifted an '80 Fox Mustang with the TRX suspension, 2.3 turbo/five speed and T-tops (which made me very popular), then traded up to an '82 Mustang with the "big" 5.0/five speed churning out 157hp. This car made me so happy, it signaled Ford's return to the performance market and I loved it very much. That in turn was replaced by an '86 SVO, which turned out to be another less than fulfilling turbo 2.3 experience for me.

So I've kind of always driven Fords (more recently a semi-restored '65 GT Convertible A-code car and fast but thrashed '68 California Special), except for the Porsche years (another story entirely) and the supercharged Miata with a terrible case of trailing throttle oversteer (which, oddly enough, prepared me for the Porsches).

The Cobra is the one car I wish dad owned. It's also my favorite post WWII Ford hands down, the styling and the driveline too. And it's just bad-a$$.

So there you have it.

_____________

PS, here's my piece of Ford history. My Pinto! Funny, the things we end up with.

[tkb289]

Natalie,

Sounds like you grew up with a great mix of performance Fords from the 60's and 70's … and you certainly have the Cobra bug. Along with the fun of a Cobra … you will meet a lot of great folks along the way, and I have no doubt that your build thread will have quite a following.

You mention Wimbledon white with no stripes, should make for a very clean look. As mentioned above, think about the under car exhaust that exits before the rear wheel, as this will give you the choice of running the optional ERA rear suspension setup. That and the 5 speed, if you plan to do a lot of freeway driving.

You have a clear vision of what you want in a Cobra, which is great. Pass that onto Peter, then listen carefully to what Peter / Bob / Doug & crew at ERA recommend, as they have been building these cars for a very long time and know what works well. They will do their very best to build you the Cobra of your dreams.

- Tim

[BBQCYCLEWERKES]

I think FUNFER2 was referring to a 428 build in the $3,000 to $4,000 range if you already had the motor and was going to rebuild it. Machine work, cam, bearings, gasket kit, good oil pump, asemby etc would easily be in that range. To go out and first buy all the parts and then build would get you closer to the $6,000 to $7,000 range and it would be just about all stock which isn't so bad. I'm presently gathering all the good parts to build my 427 SO. I already had the block and rods already and I still spent about $6,000 for the good parts. I still have to then pay for the machine work and pistons since I'm using a A.M. 428 crank and I'm budgeting around $3200 for that with me doing the assembly work. I nice streetable 427 turning 5800 max RPM putting out approx 500 H.P. That should be more then enough for this old man. I bought some of the parts from Bret and I must say he is honest and fair on both his parts and complete engines. Good honest and trustworthy engine builders are not as common as they use to be. Just be careful in whoever to use to build your motor. A nice Cobra stuck in the gararge due to engine failure is no bargain at all. Just my opinion though.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by BBQCYCLEWERKES

Good honest and trustworthy engine builders are not as common as they use to be. Just be careful in whoever to use to build your motor.

Words of gold. Even more so with an FE, which has some peculiarities that have to be learned on "someone else's" build.

[FUNFER2]

[quote=BBQCYCLEWERKES;1156693]I think FUNFER2 was referring to a 428 build in the $3,000 to $4,000 range if you already had the motor and was going to rebuild it. Machine work, cam, bearings, gasket kit, good oil pump, asemby etc would easily be in that range.

Exactly. No racin motor. Find a good used one and put a rebuild kit in and maybe a larger cam in for the rumble. 3-4k.

[Flygirl]

Thanks for the link to Chuck Brandt's site. Believe it or not, I had actually already stumbled across it! I guess I am doing okay with the research, after all.

I need to keep the cost under control. I don't want this to become an obsession, just a good running car that's reasonably period correct.

So, as far as a potential new ERA goes: 428 CJ (or 427 center oiler, if that's an option not too expensive), five speed, just a few touches under the hood to get the look, either under car exhaust exiting in front of rear wheels or side pipes painted black so they begin to show discoloration and wear after a little while, (they're cheaper, too) vinyl seats. Standard paint so it's not too shiny and show car perfect. 15" pin-drive wheels.

Kind of an accurate but stripped down look. I'm not really into chrome everywhere and highly polished surfaces, except in a few key areas.

About the under car exhaust, as much as I want it sometimes I wonder if there's really room under the chassis.

A lot of the pics I see show the tubing and muffler clearly visible when the car is seen from the side. If it were concealed entirely, that'd be good. If that's not an option, I may go with the side pipes. In fact, I find myself leaning in that direction again.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

A lot of the pics I see show the tubing and muffler clearly visible when the car is seen from the side. If it were concealed entirely, that'd be good. If that's not an option, I may go with the side pipes. In fact, I find myself leaning in that direction again.

That, in essence is what the Cobra was really about. Nothing you see on an authentic 427 Cobra is a styling exercise. It's all beautifully functional, and that's where a lot of replica manufacturers miss the mark (marque?).

The sidepipes were there simply because a suitably large diameter exhaust system would not fit under the car at the necessarily low ride height. The milder 428 powered street roadsters, even with the smaller diameter pipes, had an appetite for eating mufflers on driveways and uneven roads.

There are some undercar options available like flattened oval exhaust pipes and low profile mufflers - it's important to resist destroying the aesthetic beauty and balance by jacking up the ride height in the quest for additional ground clearance.

You're taking a very informed and well thought out approach, so no doubt you will end up with a Cobra that suits you perfectly.

[redmt]

Here are a couple pix of an original Cobra. This is the one that convinced me NOT to go with the side pipes. I really like the look, nice and clean

[redmt]

and another

[Buzz]

No doubt at all that the roadsters have a sleek and subtle beauty. Every year I come close to ditching my roll bar and sidepipes, but without frame cutouts and raising my ride height, there is no way an undercar exhaust would be practical for me. If you drive on smooth, even roads and really want the look, no reason in the world not to go for it.

[decooney]

Its not an ERA, but if you can visualize White instead, sort of gives you an idea..

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by decooney

Its not an ERA, but if you can visualize White instead, sort of gives you an idea..

Thank you! That's an excellent looking car. The stance is exactly what I'm going for.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Thank you! That's an excellent looking car. The stance is exactly what I'm going for.

Flygirl,
Found it, this is actually the photo I was looking for - a little bit closer to your vision for your ERA. This is an old Arntz street car version featured on Motortopia a while back.

Now even I can appreciate this one... Nice!

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by decooney

Flygirl,
Found it, this is actually the photo I was looking for - a little bit closer to your vision for your ERA. This is an old Arntz street car version featured on Motortopia a while back.

Now even I can appreciate this one... Nice!

Duane- I'm usually a bling guy, but that Arntz's plain & simple apearence is just sexy.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by decooney

Ever tried to steer an Arntz...?
They can be pretty heavy and you need forearms like popeye, if it isn't rolling.

That might explain why she's putting on her lipstick and not driving it

PS: I actually don't mind the look of those "quick-jacks", I wouldn't use them but i think it matches that car quite nicely.

[cscobra]

ERA recommended that I paint (or have coated) the entire undercar exhaust system satin black, as it helps to de-emphasize the visibility of the system. I plan to do so.

The 390, 427, and 428 V8s are all identical from the top (which is all you can see once the car is completed). And, a 390 V8 built for reliability and durability is plenty for this car--it shares the same stroke as the 427 so it will rev (and with less reciprocating mass than with a 428 or with a stroked crank), but you'll still have more low-end torque than most people can effectively use. The Toploader 4-speed adds to the original feel. Both will save you money, and you'll be able to comfortably drive more than a quarter-mile at a time

By the way, the original 427 Cobra prototypes had 390 V8s (albeit in aluminum) and the inboard-mounted rear brakes that ERA uses even today on their standard rear suspension. The only advantage to the outboard brake option is improved cooling for those who spend a great deal of time on the track, which does not seem to be where you are headed. Otherwise, that option increases unsprung weight, a disadvantage for those of us who like to drive on regular roads, highways, and mountain passes, which does sound like what you want to do.

With regard to wheel size, the original street models (whether 427- or 428-equipped) came with 7.5 x 15" wheels front and rear--that was part of the original look. The 9.5" rear wheel widths were original only on the SC models that were built (about 50 of them, according to some authorities).

Your plans for your car sound great, and the final product should make you happy. All of the rest of us have our biases for why we did things the way we did, so just accept what we say simply as "food for thought."

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by cscobra

The 390, 427, and 428 V8s are all identical from the top (which is all you can see once the car is completed). And, a 390 V8 built for reliability and durability is plenty for this car--it shares the same stroke as the 427 so it will rev (and with less reciprocating mass than with a 428 or with a stroked crank), but you'll still have more low-end torque than most people can effectively use. The Toploader 4-speed adds to the original feel. Both will save you money, and you'll be able to comfortably drive more than a quarter-mile at a time

Well, let's see how much it all costs and if I can make it happen. Reliability and durability are where it's at for me. One of the ERAs I drove had the close ratio Toploader with 3.54 final drive and it seemed a bit tached out on the freeway. Perhaps a 3.31 might address that issue. I generally like close ratio gearsets.

Originally Posted by cscobra

By the way, the original 427 Cobra prototypes had 390 V8s (albeit in aluminum) and the inboard-mounted rear brakes that ERA uses even today on their standard rear suspension. The only advantage to the outboard brake option is improved cooling for those who spend a great deal of time on the track, which does not seem to be where you are headed. Otherwise, that option increases unsprung weight, a disadvantage for those of us who like to drive on regular roads, highways, and mountain passes, which does sound like what you want to do.

Less unsprung weight is good. And I can't imagine I'd max out even the stock ERA brakes, to be honest.

Originally Posted by cscobra

With regard to wheel size, the original street models (whether 427- or 428-equipped) came with 7.5 x 15" wheels front and rear--that was part of the original look. The 9.5" rear wheel widths were original only on the SC models that were built (about 50 of them, according to some authorities).

This I might compromise on. I just love how the rear quarters are crammed full of tire.

Originally Posted by cscobra

Your plans for your car sound great, and the final product should make you happy. All of the rest of us have our biases for why we did things the way we did, so just accept what we say simply as "food for thought."

Thanks for your input. I'm doing my best to take it all in and stay true to what I want, while modifying as I go when the vision changes or a better idea makes me re-think what it was I wanted, and why.