Commissioning a Turn Key ERA 427 Cobra

[Flygirl]

What I'm afraid of is, especially with a mild 390, the car will only seem too fast for about six weeks. If I can put the pedal to the floor and hold it there and wish it had more, it's not fast enough. A 428 CJ could do it, or as I said, a center oiler 427.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

What I'm afraid of is, especially with a mild 390, the car will only seem too fast for about six weeks. If I can put the pedal to the floor and hold it there and wish it had more, it's not fast enough. A 428 CJ could do it, or as I said, a center oiler 427.

A well built 390 with a mild cam and the right components will roast the tires on the street. Even a moderate built 428 will overwhelm the independent rear suspension in an ERA, especially with 15" wheels if you go authentic on wheels. I went a little to radical on my 428 the first go-around, and (honestly) felt my previous 428 with 100 less horsepower was just about as fast when it was able to hook up. You have to remember, this is a 2500lbs car with an FE in it, with a 90" wheelbase, and going too radical on the street can actually be dangerous. Talk to Peter and Bob, and really listen. We've all been through it. It all becomes 20/20 after you've been through a few cars and motors. I've seen people spend $25K on a "great" motor and completely miss the boat in other areas and wind up with something no better or faster at the track or on the 1/4 mile.

[blykins]

Flygirl,

I would look at a stroked 390. Skip the expensive blocks and go with a simple 390 block with a stroker kit - 445ci. Getting 500-550 hp is not hard with this combination. It will perform the way you want and it won't be as costly as trying to find a good usable 427 block.

[FUNFER2]

Brent- did you see the example 428 that I posted ?

I would of course, not over rate, or undercut you as a engine builder, and your price for 500 + HP, almost ready to run for 10-12k is good. But like I said, for a basic 428 with a healthy sounding cam, there's no need to have that kind of money wraped up in it.

Flygirl- Since Shelby/Ford used 428 FE's in the street cobras, having one if your cobra is still correct.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

I would of course, not over rate, or undercut you as a engine builder, and your price for 500 + HP, almost ready to run for 10-12k is good. But like I said, for a basic 428 with a healthy sounding cam, there's no need to have that kind of money wraped up in it.

Indeed. You can clearly have a POS engine built for considerably less.

[FUNFER2]

Patrick- are you saying my 500 HP 428,.... was a piece of crap ?

Have you seen & heard mine ?

Click on my engine link I posted and listen.

Clearly,......you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Patrick- are you saying my 500 HP 428,.... was a piece of crap ?

Have you seen & heard mine ?

Clearly,......you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Didn't you have your engine built by Pops Performance? The threads regarding his builds over on the FE forum certainly raise an eyebrow....

Edit: FE Forum is here: 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum

[blykins]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Brent- did you see the example 428 that I posted ?

I would of course, not over rate, or undercut you as a engine builder, and your price for 500 + HP, almost ready to run for 10-12k is good. But like I said, for a basic 428 with a healthy sounding cam, there's no need to have that kind of money wraped up in it.

Flygirl- Since Shelby/Ford used 428 FE's in the street cobras, having one if your cobra is still correct.

The one for $4995? Yes, I saw it. I personally would be cautious of a 428 FE built for that price. Also, you'll notice that it's lacking a lot of key components; components that will add up very quickly: carbs, harmonic balancer, fuel pump, distributor cap, plug wires, pulleys, brackets, air cleaner, etc, etc.

[Flygirl]

Sounds good from what I can tell from the videos, especially the idle. Sound quality doesn't do it justice sometimes, though.

[FUNFER2]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Sounds good from what I can tell from the videos, especially the idle. Sound quality doesn't do it justice sometimes, though.

Yep, good speakers , not normal computer one's, are needed to hear every engine.

I have like 9 different vids to listen to. Just follow them on my page.

[FUNFER2]

Maybe it's you location, like housing costs, but many GOOD,........428's here in the midwest sell for under 6k.

"lacking a lot of key components; components that will add up very quickly: carbs, harmonic balancer, fuel pump, distributor cap, plug wires, pulleys, brackets, air cleaner, etc, etc."

Do you sell yours with all these extra components for the 11-12k ?
Not unless it's a RTR crate engine,....right ?

[FUNFER2]

"I was wearing high fidelity headphones. I think setting the camera on the seat wasn't helping matters any, and the part with the car idling in the garage just didn't make sense to me, with the sound echoing off those freshly finished walls. Editing would definitely help; my Mac came with free software that makes that possible."

Like I said, I made the vids for the buyer,... of my 428, so he could hear the engine start cold, not prewarmed like many people would do,....warm up on the driveway, putt around a few blocks, on the highway and getting on the go pedal a little, so that he could hear exactly what he was getting, with out editing.

He was very appriciating for my doing so, and I was honest.

[FUNFER2]

Good idea. I believe ERA has various engines at times to sell. You'll know you'll get a good motor from them.

[Flygirl]

I think the primary reason I want a 427 or 428 is so that I can know that's what's under the hood and pretend I'm in a real Cobra. It's more of my trip, really, and I also don't want to say "390" when someone asks. I know, that's vain.

I definitely will take Peter's advice when I speak with him. And yes, planning 15" wheels.

The five speed trans is a good idea, though.

Like I said, on one hand I want to be period correct in as many ways as possible; on the other, it's a replica anyway. So, if I were to have one built, why not make changes that will result in a car that makes sense for me?

[Flygirl]

Originally Posted by FUNFER2

Yep, good speakers , not normal computer one's, are needed to hear every engine.

I was wearing high fidelity headphones. I think setting the camera on the seat wasn't helping matters any, and the part with the car idling in the garage just didn't make sense to me, with the sound echoing off those freshly finished walls. Editing would definitely help; my Mac came with free software that makes that possible.

__________

Dan, thanks for the input. I would go with the scoop, riveted. I like the way it looks from the driver's seat.

Not sure about the narrower wheels in back. I've seen some cars where the fenders don't seem to be filled by the rear tires, and that doesn't look so good to me. Would have to get more information on that and see pics.

The 390 or 428 would not be stroked, and I think a single 4bbl would be fine, like I said with the turkey pan. This isn't going to be a high RPM, race engine. If I lose some top end horsepower, I don't think that'd be a huge issue. And it'd be even more okay the first time my mom gets into the car and doesn't burn herself on the side pipes.

I won't be a slave to the ultimate period correct car, but I don't want to stray too far, either. I'm sure with some more info I could balance price and correctness, and come up with something nice.

__________

I'm not going for a show car, I've driven Porsches and gotten them to the point where they were so perfect that the whole object of each outing was to get the car back into the garage without the smallest stone chip, or getting the chassis dirty.

This car—or a used one, if I were to go that route—will be driven and enjoyed, and will see much of California and perhaps the West Coast, too. And it won't have a bra on the front or spats or anything, it'll develop a driven patina and that's just the way I like it.

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

.... And it'd be even more okay the first time my mom gets into the car and doesn't burn herself on the side pipes.....

Another option would be the undercar exhaust, but exiting in front of the rear wheels
Cheers,
Glen

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

__________

Dan, thanks for the input. I would go with the scoop, riveted. I like the way it looks from the driver's seat.

Not sure about the narrower wheels in back. I've seen some cars where the fenders don't seem to be filled by the rear tires, and that doesn't look so good to me. Would have to get more information on that and see pics.

The 390 or 428 would not be stroked, and I think a single 4bbl would be fine, like I said with the turkey pan. This isn't going to be a high RPM, race engine. If I lose some top end horsepower, I don't think that'd be a huge issue. And it'd be even more okay the first time my mom gets into the car and doesn't burn herself on the side pipes..

Missed the part about the hood scoop. That would free up your engine top end part options quite a bit. You don't need it with a Police Interceptor or Cobra Jet intake but it would free some space up for a one inch insulator under the carb which helps hot weather performance and starting and torque.

Don't completely rule out a stroker crank. I have no idea about Danbury but in the case of Keith Craft he seems more interested in installing a new crank rather than mess with finding a good old one, inspecting it, machining it for re-use, and reconditioning the rods. Once you go to a new crank you can basically go for any stoke you want. But there is undoubtably some additional cost buried in there. Thats why some guys can put together a nice, mildly built up and overhauled , stock crank 428 for $5 to 6k and the major FE builders are selling their 390/428 block motors with new crank, Chev rods, new pistons, custom cam and valvetrain, and lots of attention to assembly detail for more like $10 to $11K.

If you do go with a relatively stock 390 or 428, in which case you don't need to go to wild with the cam, the ERA undercar exhaust system may work fine and it would simplify things. Street428 built his ERA to a high degree of orginality right down to the 428 Police Interceptor motor with all correct parts and he says it performs very strong with the ERA exhaust. He would be a good person to contact as he had his car built as a painted, roller other than I believe he installed his engine and transmission himself. But beware, he's a slave to originality - no matter what the expense or effort.

If you get interested in ERA's optional rear suspension with outboard brakes, they don't recommend undercar exhaust. But, after a little study I think it would work if the loop in the tailpipes over the halfshafts were extended a little further up in the wheelwells.

Here is a good build site for an ERA very much like you are discussing. Chuck Brandt

Good luck

[Flygirl]

As far as the engine debate goes, I'll be sourcing it through ERA if I go that route, so in a sense other speculation is a moot point.

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

As far as the engine debate goes, I'll be sourcing it through ERA if I go that route, so in a sense other speculation is a moot point.

Natalie,
That's probably a good thing. ERA use to source motors through Danbury Competition, (and if they still are) those guys won't build something for a turnkey car that's not going to last, and it won't be overly radical. Therefore, much of the prior discussion is a moot point. ERA knows... they've been doing this for a long time, and I continue to be impressed by Bob's knowledge and attention to detail. Looking at those years growing up, seems like you could change your handle from Flygirl to FordGirl

[blykins]

Yes, my engines are turn-key. But even if they weren't, I wouldn't sell one without a harmonc balancer....

Here's a list of what you get with one of my engines for around that price....down to the starter, braided fuel line, etc.

B2 Motorsports LLC

Flygirl...

Give me a call if you want to see what your options are in regards to engines. If you go through ERA, they will probably source your engine through Danbury Engines. I've heard good things about them, but if you wanted to price shop, any of the builders (including myself) that advertise here on Club Cobra would be happy to give you a quote. We all work with the different Cobra manufacturers and ship engines to them on a regular basis.

Even if you go through another builder, feel free to call me and pick my brain about your engine choices. I wouldn't discount the 390FE route. With the stroker kit, you can have more streetable horsepower/torque than a comparatively built 427 S/O or C/O.....for a lot less money.