Breakign down EFI options

[Dwight]

I have an Eight Stack system but can't comment on anything other than looks because I have not ran the motor. I'm still working on the wiring.

Ace have you talked to Wayne?

He sells a lot of different systems. I did buy my ECU from him.

Dwight

[philminotti]

I have FAST multi-port sequential system with a throttle body. I love it. I had to throw a grand at it to finally get it tuned properly, but that's EFI. Cubic dollars. I'm not a big believer in the EZ systems, although a modest Windsor build will probably be just fine. When you're talking big blocks with hairy cams, I personally believe there's no substitute for a FAST XFI or similar system. When you move on to an independent runner system like Inglese or similar system, EZ self learning is NOT an option. It'll take a real expert and a chassis dyno to get it right. But in the end, it's worth it.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Ace23 I would take me a couple of hours to type all the info.
I will give you a quick info and if you want more, call in the evening
EZ fast will do a self learning if the specs in the ECU are within 8-10% of what the car needs to run correctly, They give you a basic line to get the car running after that, some re close and others need a tuner for getting into the ball park. TB system is basic, uses 4 injectors in a TB, It's just like a carb. Only different is no choke. Power wise, you loss a little with this setup over a carb.
Multi port, alot depends on the ECU and what options it has. The better ones have sequiental fuel injector firing at low rpms under about 3,000rpms. Up side better drivability. Over 3,000 rpms some systems go to batch fire or bank to bank. There is no real different in power. With MUlti you can adjust injector pulse and each cylinder timing to get max power from all cylinders. Here again you need a pro tuner. I run this system with a dry manifold that has been ported and polished. There is only a small air to fuel mix area on the top of the head and intake valve. This system keeps valves clean with a injector pulse cleaning any carbon or oil build up on the valves. I have a Speed pro which went to FAST. 18 years old and no problems with system. Problem was finding a speed shop with this under standing on their system. I would recommend this system.
Last system, 8 stack that works like a Weber setup. I have one going on my last motor, a 498 shelby with a TWM 58 mm intake and throttle bodys. With the correct camshaft a 20-60 HP different will happen in mid range of the motor. Up side, Looks cool popping the hood. WOW factor off the charts. Down side, Clearance under the hood, Getting clean air to the back 2 cylinders, Dirty air of debrie flying around. You will need air screens or filter to keep out debrie, couple hundred dollars alone. You will need a steady vacuum for both the fuel regulator and the map sensor on the motor. Some systems you need to make your own. Getting the throttle body linkage to work all together. You will need an Air meter that sits on the inlet of each throttle body to adjust air flow into that cylinder. You will need either 1 or 2 O2 sensors for the computor. Fuel system, 3/8" supply line and 5/16" return line to tank. No aluminum lines, not safe and crack over time. Alot of states will not pass car for road if lines aluminum. Plastic or steel only. Fuel pump, I like mine in gas tank, need to modify tank. Fuel pump flow, I have 2 255l. pumps on different curcuits. Backup when racing, can swap over if 1 pump fails. This system will give flow for 800 hp with each pump. Need a fuel pressure regulator and vacuum source. At idle I like about 35-37 psi. Cruising it goes to 45 psi and is solid. Injector size, I started with a 452 motor and went to 55 pound injectors, The motor was to be supercharged, Reason for larger injectors. I have need no problem with the TB setup. No black smoke on accelleration. The duty cycle or how long the injector is turned on at 6,000 rpms is only 58%. In the old days when FI started, idea was small injectors, high duty cycles of 80-99% and higher fuel pressures. That has changed over the years to big injectors like 50's for SB motors and 72's for anything over 400 cubes. There is less pulsing of fuel pump in system, steadier pressure, less heating on injectors. The injectors use the fuel to cool them down. Wierd. It works. Less stress on the injector drivers with a shorter pulse to injectors extends the live of the ECU. Price on this system is high. If you have depth pockets, it's your call.
I run a small air clearner for a boat on my car and everything stays clean and protected. I will have TWM setup a screen kit for my throttle bodies when the time comes.
That's a short story, if you want to talk more, call me 7322543536 in the evening. I'm in NJ.
No matter which system you might go with, make sure that FAST installs the correct motor specs and firing order for your motor. I had this problem. Told them a 452 FE ford motor and got the info for a 454 BBchevy motor what a mess this was to figure out and cost. Rick L.
I didn't cover camshafts, compression of motor, and most important EXHAUST SYSTEM of side pipes and back pressure. This is a big thing with our side pipes. Power loss can be from 5 hp to 70 hp. depending on size of pipe, internal muffler size, size of header pipes. Too big is just as bad as too small. What other wor was done to the motor as far as head or intake porting and gasket matching between intake and head? Again more info needed. You see why there is a couple of hours needed for this. Last note, avoid using rubber fuel lines. The ethetol in the gas eats rubber lines over the years, If luck you get about 5-8 years. The rubber ends up a little rubber balls, location depends on amount of damage to car and fuel system. 2 good fuel filters with 8-10 micros are needed for protection. I have short hoses between fuel pump mount housing and pump outlets to system. both lines rotten out. Fuel filters saved system.

Rick,
Thanks for all that information! I appreciate the offer to speak and will probably take you up on that. Hoping to drive the car another month or so and break it down when the cooler weather sets in. I'm ready to get the car the way I want it and stop tolerating it the way it currently is. Sounds like the stack injection may give the best performance but may not be as practical and obviously is a higher investment.

Originally Posted by Dwight

I have an Eight Stack system but can't comment on anything other than looks because I have not ran the motor. I'm still working on the wiring.

Ace have you talked to Wayne?

He sells a lot of different systems. I did buy my ECU from him.

Dwight

Dwight, no I have not spoken to Wayne about it. When I was down at his shop getting my carb tuned he mentioned the stack injection and the power that he saw from them. I believe he uses the redline management system but I do not know anything about that offering.

Originally Posted by philminotti

I have FAST multi-port sequential system with a throttle body. I love it. I had to throw a grand at it to finally get it tuned properly, but that's EFI. Cubic dollars. I'm not a big believer in the EZ systems, although a modest Windsor build will probably be just fine. When you're talking big blocks with hairy cams, I personally believe there's no substitute for a FAST XFI or similar system. When you move on to an independent runner system like Inglese or similar system, EZ self learning is NOT an option. It'll take a real expert and a chassis dyno to get it right. But in the end, it's worth it.

Phil,
Thanks for chiming in. How is the throttle response on that multi-port setup? I've heard that EFI setups allow for much more aggressive camshafts to be used. I've also heard that EFI "tames" the sound of a cam. That may be just parking lot gear head chatter but my assumption would be that using EFI would still allow for a rowdy sounding car. I fully agree about using a legitimate tuner and would make the necessary plans to have that expense.

[philminotti]

I've never heard of EFI "taming" a big cam. Certainly a cam with lots of duration and overlap can "tame" a big displacement engine with a high static compression ratio, but I don't believe EFI is going to make a radical cam any more appropriate for the street. I will say that that idle and low rpm behavior in a "hairy cam" situation is easier to manage with EFI as you really don't have to worry about fuel metering problems due to low vacuum like you would with a carb. It's been said many times on this board and I'll say it again, EFI absolutely will NOT outperform a well tuned carb at the top end. However, part throttle street manners of a well sorted EFI system can't be beat, IMO. To answer your first question, my throttle response is excellent, but that took over a thousand dollars worth of dyno time to realize.

As for sound, in a word, nonsense. EFI has no effect on sound. I can't even begin to fabricate a plausible theory why it might, so I call BS on that one.