How do you handle the questions?

[Paul F]

Judge Walsh further wrote:

"Furthermore, we find no meaningful
distinction between what applicant often refers to as a
continuation, on the one hand, and a replica, on the other
hand. Both applicant’s “continuations” and the third-party
replicas are being sold principally in kit form. It is
evident that both are intended to replicate the original
1960s Cobras, including the Cobra 427 S/C."

and

"In 1992, Shelby began to produce “continuations” or
replicas of the original Cobras, including the Cobra 427
S/C, primarily in kit form. A kit typically includes a chassis and body,
but the purchaser is then required to assemble and complete
the car with a transmission and engine and possibly other
parts. Mr. Shelby identified the replicas of the Cobra 427
S/C with the designation CSX 4000.
Shelby has sold the Cobra replica kits for $50,000 to
$150,000."

and

"It is one thing to recognize the legendary status of
Mr. Shelby and the original Cobras, including the 427 S/C,
and quite another to assert that purchasers and potential
purchasers view Cobra continuations or replicas, sold
primarily as kits, which employ the Cobra 427 S/C Design as
coming from a single source. The fact that Cobra replicas,
sold primarily as kits, which employ the 427 S/C Design,
have been sold by numerous third parties for more than
three decades, including between 2002 and 2009, precludes
us from drawing that conclusion. Accordingly, we find
applicant’s evidence based on media coverage of Mr. Shelby
and all of the Cobras not probative of the issue of
acquired distinctiveness."

All Cobras are kits. If someone were producing a Cobra today, it would have all of the required equipment such as 5 mph bumpers, air bags, and catalytic converters.

The VIN of a Shelby is indistinguishable from a Factory Five or a '34 Ford coupe kit; having been assigned by the state instead of the manufacturer.

But none of that matters. What matters is that your Cobra has a genuine CSX nameplate. If money and/or pride in ownership is what matters, we can all see the recognition that CSX nameplate gets at the auction block. It's a kit. But you can be proud to be one of the few that have a genuine Shelby.

Its been fun once again to kick this around. One day we will meet and I'll get a look at your beautiful Cobra.

Cheers

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Paul F

The VIN of a Shelby is indistinguishable from a Factory Five or a '34 Ford coupe kit; having been assigned by the state instead of the manufacturer.

Wrong. My VIN, recognized and recorded by the Commonwealth of Virginia, is CSX6045, taken directly from the MSO and manufacturer's data plate. No state-issued VIN.

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Paul F

Judge Walsh further wrote:

"Furthermore, we find no meaningful
distinction between what applicant often refers to as a
continuation, on the one hand, and a replica, on the other
hand. Both applicant’s “continuations” and the third-party
replicas are being sold principally in kit form. It is
evident that both are intended to replicate the original
1960s Cobras, including the Cobra 427 S/C."

and

"In 1992, Shelby began to produce “continuations” or
replicas of the original Cobras, including the Cobra 427
S/C, primarily in kit form. A kit typically includes a chassis and body,
but the purchaser is then required to assemble and complete
the car with a transmission and engine and possibly other
parts. Mr. Shelby identified the replicas of the Cobra 427
S/C with the designation CSX 4000.
Shelby has sold the Cobra replica kits for $50,000 to
$150,000."

and

"It is one thing to recognize the legendary status of
Mr. Shelby and the original Cobras, including the 427 S/C,
and quite another to assert that purchasers and potential
purchasers view Cobra continuations or replicas, sold
primarily as kits, which employ the Cobra 427 S/C Design as
coming from a single source. The fact that Cobra replicas,
sold primarily as kits, which employ the 427 S/C Design,
have been sold by numerous third parties for more than
three decades, including between 2002 and 2009, precludes
us from drawing that conclusion. Accordingly, we find
applicant’s evidence based on media coverage of Mr. Shelby
and all of the Cobras not probative of the issue of
acquired distinctiveness."

All Cobras are kits. If someone were producing a Cobra today, it would have all of the required equipment such as 5 mph bumpers, air bags, and catalytic converters.

The VIN of a Shelby is indistinguishable from a Factory Five or a '34 Ford coupe kit; having been assigned by the state instead of the manufacturer.

But none of that matters. What matters is that your Cobra has a genuine CSX nameplate. If money and/or pride in ownership is what matters, we can all see the recognition that CSX nameplate gets at the auction block. It's a kit. But you can be proud to be one of the few that have a genuine Shelby.

Its been fun once again to kick this around. One day we will meet and I'll get a look at your beautiful Cobra.

Cheers

Game, set, match!

Or is it?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by jhv48

Game, set, match!

Or is it?

Better go back and read carefully. Never said the continuation Cobra doesn't replicate the original series. Never said that that weren't sold as "kits" to some purchasers. It's irrelevant to the main issue of the car being a genuine Cobra regardless of the form some may have been sold due to today's requirements or that it replicates the original design.

As usual you guys can't seem to grasp or refuse to acknowledge the bottom line which by the way is supported by the federal decision on the trade mark issues. The above dealt with trade dress.

Nice try though

[Paul F]

Good to know. I only checked a couple of states before I wrote that.

[ChiChris]

My IL title had my CSX number listed as the VIN and listed as a 1965 Shelby Cobra.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by ChiChris

My IL title had my CSX number listed as the VIN and listed as a 1965 Shelby Cobra.

As was mine in Colorado.

I've been searching for a better adjective to describe the Shelby cars. CS called them "continuation" but I think "genuine" might be better. It's easier to describe it as still being manufactured by Shelby American, but a modern instantiation.

I read the court's opinion a long time ago and while the judge used the term "kit" I did not see a definition of the term. A lot of people use the term and when I ask them to define it they all think the car arrived in boxes and had to be fully assembled. Then try to describe "finished roller".

But for the 90th percentile a "It was built by Shelby just not in 1965" satisfied them. Usually people at a gas station are satisfied. People at a car show will drill deeper.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I've been searching for a better adjective to describe the Shelby cars. CS called them "continuation" but I think "genuine" might be better. It's easier to describe it as still being manufactured by Shelby American, but a modern instantiation.

I read the court's opinion a long time ago and while the judge used the term "kit" I did not see a definition of the term. A lot of people use the term and when I ask them to define it they all think the car arrived in boxes and had to be fully assembled. Then try to describe "finished roller".

"Genuine" is terrible adjective to describe the Shelby Cobra replica.

According to the SAAC Registry, I own a "genuine" Cobra, but while Evan's was produced by Shelby, my "genuine" Cobra was produced by Kirkham. See the Registry under Kirkham Cobra. Neither Cobra is "genuine" or authentic. Ned Scudder is the SAAC Cobra Registrar for GENUINE (no quotation marks) Cobras (i.e., 1960's 2000 and 3000 series Cobras).

It's just word play. Seriously, they're all just replicas. And SAAC should "disconnect" themselves from keeping track of anything not built in the 1960's.

As for the difference between "kit" or "finished roller", it's just more word play, or semantics. A "finished roller" is a "kit", because you still have to buy and install an engine and transmission and a bunch of other little parts to get the thing running and driving properly.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

"Genuine" is terrible adjective to describe the Shelby Cobra replica.

According to the SAAC Registry, I own a "genuine" Cobra, but while Evan's was produced by Shelby, my "genuine" Cobra was produced by Kirkham. See the Registry under Kirkham Cobra. Neither Cobra is "genuine" or authentic. Ned Scudder is the SAAC Cobra Registrar for GENUINE (no quotation marks) Cobras (i.e., 1960's 2000 and 3000 series Cobras).

It's just word play. Seriously, they're all just replicas. And SAAC should "disconnect" themselves from keeping track of anything not built in the 1960's.

As for the difference between "kit" or "finished roller", it's just more word play, or semantics. A "finished roller" is a "kit", because you still have to buy and install an engine and transmission and a bunch of other little parts to get the thing running and driving properly.

First, while Ned is an expert on original cars that doesn't give him the ability to change facts and ongoing history. Sorry. Secondly, while Ned is entitled to his own personal opinions on the continuation cars the fact is he is not speaking on behalf of SAAC here. His personal opinion does not invalidate the official position of SAAC as set forth in the Registry and even if his singular personal opinion were at odds with what's in the Registry and I wouldn't be surprised if he voiced a position at committee meetings it was obviously overruled by the other committee members. The official position is in black and white. Of course you don't like it and continue to set forth your opinions about the "wording" as "unfair", wrong, misguided etc..etc..twisting yourself into a pretzel with twisted arguments and logic to debunk the Registry.

See your opinion/position means nothing and carries 0 weight with anyone but you and those who don't own Shleby Cobras who feel better about what they own by bringing down what someone else owns. Yuck.

The World Registry of Cobras & GT40s on the other hand is a world recognized and respected authoritative text.

Maybe you should write them a strongly worded letter.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

First, while Ned is an expert on original cars that doesn't give him the ability to change facts and ongoing history. Sorry. Secondly, while Ned is entitled to his own personal opinions on the continuation cars the fact is he is not speaking on behalf of SAAC here. His personal opinion does not invalidate the official position of SAAC as set forth in the Registry and even if his singular personal opinion were at odds with what's in the Registry and I wouldn't be surprised if he voiced a position at committee meetings it was obviously overruled by the other committee members. The official position is in black and white. Of course you don't like it and continue to set forth your opinions about the "wording" as "unfair", wrong, misguided etc..etc..twisting yourself into a pretzel with twisted arguments and logic to debunk the Registry.

See your opinion/position means nothing and carries 0 weight with anyone but you and those who don't own Shleby Cobras who feel better about what they own by bringing down what someone else owns. Yuck.

The World Registry of Cobras & GT40s on the other hand is a world recognized and respected authoritative text.

Maybe you should write them a strongly worded letter.

Page after page, that's what I'm trying to do here ("writing strongly worded letter"), if you didn't notice. Pretty stealthy huh?

Blah, blah, blah.....replica, blah, blah, blah.....replica. Ned, you and I all agree on that fact (you own a Shelby Cobra replica). That's I'll care about. And I'm sure there are many others who agree with that fact as well.

Yours truly,
RodKnock

[xb-60]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

..... those who don't own Shleby Cobras.....

Ahh, the penny has finally dropped
You're talking about a real Shleby Cobra!

[RET_COP]

From the Webster online Dictionary
These are the 3 words being used in the posts

Genuine = actual, real, or true : not false or fake
Real = not fake, false, or artificial
Original = that from which a copy, reproduction is made

We on this forum can understand
anyone else would be confused
I looked forward to reading the thread everyday it never got ugly.

[mrmustang]

To use a post from many,many,many years ago:

Originally Posted by Jamo

Hmmm....

Just wanted to see who would dig up a thread that ended OVER TWO FREEKING YEARS AGO!

Jamo, where are you now

[Thor maine]

So Real-1 , what do you have for a Tag on your "genuine, replica, Shelby Cobra KIT Car????

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Thor maine

So Real-1 , what do you have for a Tag on your "genuine, replica, Shelby Cobra KIT Car????

Yes you of all people need use that "therapeutic" description of my car. Bet you feel much better now.

Says the man that thinks Chebby engines belong in Cobra replicas (using the "replica" term as generally understood to mean fake).

[REAL 1]

You know, it just hit me. You guys are just crying out for help. I have been cruel and selfish. I realize that because you are not fortunate enough to own Shelbys many of you are suffering from a painful envy syndrome.

For humanitarian reasons and to make you feel better about the fakes you own and so we can all just get along nicely I think you guys should adopt the therapeutic description as used by JoesGarage when referring to Shelby Continuation Cobras. I'll play along promise. We can call it the Club Cobra Continuation Shelby therapeutic mantra.

Sorry for being so mean in the past.

Your friend.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You know, it just hit me. You guys are just crying out for help. I have been cruel and selfish. I realize that because you are not fortunate enough to own Shelbys many of you are suffering from a painful envy syndrome.

For humanitarian reasons and to make you feel better about the fakes you own and so we can all just get along nicely I think you guys should adopt the therapeutic description as used by JoesGarage when referring to Shelby Continuation Cobras. I'll play along promise. We can call it the Club Cobra Continuation Shelby therapeutic mantra.

Sorry for being so mean in the past.

Your friend.

Naw, no need for a "Club Cobra Continuation Shelby therapeutic mantra". We're all on board with what you have, it's you in need of therapy. But your problem has roots that are deep due to years of self-induced brainwashing. Rather than go through the troublesome task of identifying your Shelby for what it is - "a Shelby Continuation Series Kit Car Replica of an original Shelby Cobra", I suggest when members reply to you they simply refer to you/your car as REAL_FAKE_1. Only have to type it once, quick an easy, the right therapeutic reminder of what it is that you own.

[jhv48]

In case you guys haven't noticed, Real 1 is a master of obfuscation.

His license plate, though 100% accurate, is designed to misrepresent the value and history of his vehicle to the general public, thus inflating his perceived status.

His tag line at the bottom of all his posts, though 100% correct, makes readers think that he is, or was, an Army Ranger. I know I did. He wasn't! Once again, serving to inflate his perceived status.

Notice how he generally try's to take the offensive and rarely addresses all the facts? Typical lawyer speak. He bills by the hour, thus a yes/no question will elicit a three paragraph response. And none of it will answer your question. And when he has no response, he will denigrate the other party in an attempt to make them feel "less than" and put them on the defense. Another good lawyer tactic.
Remember, the best defense is a good offense. And, if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull--it. And finally, like any good lawyer knows, deny, deny, deny.

Individuals that have this kind of personality are fun to mess with. Their personal worth and status is directly tied to their possessions. Thus, to admit to it would destroy their personal foundation.
Trying to get Real1 to admit to the public that his cobra is no better than a mere replica will never happen. His self image is tied to the deception.

Now, watch how he will try to degrade me personally (or attack my car) or accuse me of being an amateur psychologist rather than address the issues. He is a master of deflection. Same BS, different day.
But, not once will he admit to his deceptions.

I apologize if I've gone too far, but I have grown tired of reading his attempts to deflect the issues and his repeated attempts to talk down to others. He obviously has a need to feel superior to all of us. Usually that stems from a severe inferiority complex. And nothing we can do or say will change him.

[Tommy]

Many people don't realize that attorneys are trained to argue their client's side of an issue without regard to whether or not they agree with it or think it is correct. Once they have picked their side of the issue, they will not acknowledge losing the argument no matter the strength of their opponents case. .... If any of you think you are going to get Evan to concede what most of us already know, you are mistaken. So I assume you just like rattling his cage for fun, and he, being an attorney, enjoys practicing his art. I, for one, won't be back to look at this thread for a long time. Bye.

[mrmustang]

To quote a famous person on this forum

Originally Posted by Evan Harris

CSX 4206. Delivered June 5, 2001. 123 miles.

Your honor, the defendant has openly admitted that his car was delivered to him in 2001, and not in the year(s) 1962-1967, and there by his own admission is not an original Cobra.


Case closed.