Replica or a modern reproduction?

[AL427SBF]

Maybe we can find a definition/description that the "brotherhood" can live with? It shouldn't be in conflict with SAAC but also broad enough to cover 99% of what the CC membership drives. How about this, Kit Car Hot Rod w/Fake Cobra Body. Now that one there I think would stand up in a court of law!

[Ralphy]

Real1, post the link where SAAC defines anything but a Shelby as a Replica/Kit. Because I haven't seen it yet. Now they do in areas call others, kit cars but that's not per say a definition. My support for this in the Forum, section Replicas and Tributes, not Replica/Kit. So they also use plain Replica. So if the SAAC does group all replicas as also, a kit? They are wrong! Since they do not know if that ERA or that Backdraft, etc... is a kit. Don't be as stupid as some ignorant moron at some car show.

Replicas and Tributes
Replicas and Tribute



The SAAC may be an authority as to Cobras. But they did not coin nor do they have ownership of the word, "Kit". And as far as the English vocabulary goes, it doesn't revolve around or search guidance from the SAAC. The fact is if you order a Shelby in boxes, "It's A Kit." That's the real world! Not some 5,000 member site, but a multimillion people association spanning the globe.

Merriam Websters, Kit: "a set of parts to be assembled or worked up"
Kit - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Ralphy

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

Real1, post the link where SAAC defines anything but a Shelby as a Replica/Kit. Because I haven't seen it yet. Now they do in areas call others, kit cars but that's not per say a definition. My support for this in the Forum, section Replicas and Tributes, not Replica/Kit. So they also use plain Replica. So if the SAAC does group all replicas as also, a kit? They are wrong! Since they do not know if that ERA or that Backdraft, etc... is a kit. Don't be as stupid as some ignorant moron at some car show.

Replicas and Tributes
Replicas and Tribute



The SAAC may be an authority as to Cobras. But they did not coin nor do they have ownership of the word, "Kit". And as far as the English vocabulary goes, it doesn't revolve around or search guidance from the SAAC. The fact is if you order a Shelby in boxes, "It's A Kit." That's the real world! Not some 5,000 member site, but a multimillion people association spanning the globe.

Merriam Websters, Kit: "a set of parts to be assembled or worked up"
Kit - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Ralphy

Ralphy: Thank you for your effort to research what I have been saying. You however have misunderstood what I was referring to. I was referring to the "World Registry of Cobras & GT40s, 4th Edition" published by SAAC. It is universally considered the Bible of all things Cobra as to definition and history and identification. It is 1600 pages of facts and information on all things Cobra.

Right up front on page 30 SAAC sets out their "working definitions" they established specifically becuase they are aware and as they expressly noted some owners are not above defining their cars in their own best interest. To prove their point I offer as "Exhibit A" of this fact this web site and this thread and all those similar threads here. However, to the contrary all I have done is point to the Registry.

There are a number of type of cars defined which include those the subject of our little discussion.

"Kit Car or Replica" is defined by SAAC as any car with a body which approximates the original Cobra shape, using any kind frame, suspension, brakes or driveline."

The CSX Continuation Cobras are defined separately as "current production Cobras built by Shelby to more less original standards delivered without engine and transmission.

Original Cobras are basiscally defined as those produced between '62 and '68.

You linked to the SAAC forum. Thats not what I was referring to. BTW you will notice that the CSX 2000, 3000, 4000 all have their own forum separate from the "Replica and Tribute Forum". Speaks for itself as to how they view things.

You are correct, SAAC doesn't own the term "kit". Thats not the issue. They are not defining "kit" they are setting forth their definition of "kit car and replica". That's their definition, granted. But...as the worlds leading authority on Cobras I'll go with their definition rather than the varied self serving (sometimes silly) homemade definitions posted my many on this site thank you very much.

I nevertheless appreciate your effort to look into what I have pointed out. More than some others have done.

Cheers.

[hectorturer]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

After you are finished reading the self seving analysis offered here you will find the correct answers in the current SAAC Registry of Cobras & GT40s. Your car is correctly defined as a replica/kit car by SAAC. It is not Cobra but a replica of one. It's all in the SAAC Registry. No better source for authoritative information.

And the Cobra is then a replica of the original AC? Thks

[Ralphy]

So is your car a kit or factory built?

Ralphy

[hectorturer]

Originally Posted by Bartruff1

The originals were built in the 1960''s.....but Shelby Cobras are still being built today by Shelby America just as Porsche's and Ferrari's and Jaguar's and Bugatti's and Bentley's and Rolls ect....so deal with it.

My understanding is that Shelby America order their replicas in the same factory, in South Africa, were the Superformance are produced. Also from Kirkarm they get car bodies. Do Shelby call their cars replica or reproduction? Thks

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by hectorturer

And the Cobra is then a replica of the original AC? Thks

Incorrect. Do some homework.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by hectorturer

My understanding is that Shelby America order their replicas in the same factory, in South Africa, were the Superformance are produced. Also from Kirkarm they get car bodies. Do Shelby call their cars replica or reproduction? Thks

Shelby American uses a number of sources for fabricators for their bodies and chassis built to their spec. AC was a supplier in the 60s. Kirkham and Hightech today. The fiberglass Cobra bodies and chassis High-tech builds for Shelby to SAI spec are in a completely different orbit than your SPF replica. High-tech takes pride in the fact they were chosen to fabricate fiberglass Cobras for Shelby. Both Shelby and High-tech make clear that the cars they fabricate for Shelby are Cobras and the SPF replica they make like your car is a licensed "replica" of a Cobra but it is not a Cobra. The Registry is clear on this too. Btw this answers your original question too.

Hopes this helps.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Ralphy

So is your car a kit or factory built?

Ralphy

My car? It's a Cobra. End of story.

[buddyg]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

My car? It's a Cobra. End of story.

An original Cobra? I think not, those were only made in the sixties.

[LMH]

The part that's getting lost here is that when civilians ask if it's real or not, they are asking out just basic knowledge of Cobra's. What they are really asking for the most part is, "is it original". The answer is "no" unless it was built at AC Cars Limited in the 60's.
In the case of continuation cars, if asked "is it real" and you answer yes, you are intentionally mis-leading them by playing on their lack of knowledge to ask the right question. Correctly answered, you should tell them it's real but not original. It shouldn't be made into something it is not.
Larry

[Thor maine]

I think we have to say that the Cobra was an alignment of the stars in the 1960's of Carroll Shelby, AC of England(The Hurlocks), and Ford. Anything else is something else! AC is out of business , they have sold the logo. Shelby American went out of business in the early 70's (they were the manufacturer of record for the Cobra) then came back like a Pheonix but made really fast Dodge Omnis and Viper plus a lot of crap until hooking back up with Ford. But along the way tried to snake oil chassis that were modern made as "left over from the 60's made by AC " we just leave them out and let them rust a bit". After that Shelby American is just making tribute cars. So where are we left ? Real 1 you have a tribute car , take a pill. The SAAC could not care less what they say, they have no factory affiliation just some guys making list's (very good list's). And now the rest of us, I have a KIT that I put together in 1980-81 like a HotRod that has a body shaped like a Cobra from the 60's that is it. REAL-1 you have a kit from one of the new incarnations of one the manufacturers from the 60's that's it. So call them what you will ! I have had to much to drink and need to go to bed.

[Paul F]

For a legal authority we have to go to the courts, which referred to the current production of genuine Shelby Cobras as 'kits or replicas'. They consider those terms to be one in the same. So either term is suitable when referring to any of the non-original Cobras. But who cares?

Use whatever term makes you happy. Call it a hand-built Cobra if that makes you feel better. Better yet, just outright lie and tell them it is an original Cobra. They won't know. You'll make their day and take a step towards eternal damnation.

I like 'kit car' because when I'm talking to people, they generally don't know what they are looking at and only want to know one thing; is it a 1960's car or is it something else? 'Kit car' or 'replica' give a clear answer to their question. I like to use 'kit car' because it is a term people understand. 'Replica' sounds desperate. Like I'm embarrassed or have a chip on my shoulder about my car and I have to use a special term to make me feel better.

I think this summer, I will use the term 'continuation' to see if people understand the term or get confused.

[REAL 1]

Buddyg: No. I said Cobra. You added the word "original". My car is indeed a Cobra. Again, I refer you to the Registry. There are original and current production Cobras that exist today.

LMH: That's not the issue in question in this thread.

Thor Maine: There were only a few correct statements in your post one of which was obviously you had too much too drink. Likely also responsible for that bow tie power plant you used.

Paul F: As I recall those decisions, one in 2002? and one in 2010? neither said what you said. Moreover, neither dealt with the question here but different issues so even if they said what you claim it would be merely "dicta' as opposed to being part the court's ruling on the issue as courts don't provide advisory opinions they resolve legal disputes in issue. The issues were trade dress and trade mark infringement in both cases. Moreover, Court's in deciding issues don't decide by themselves but based on proofs submitted by the parties and among the proofs many times used are experts.

But.... If hyothetically this were an issue before a court (lets make believe, since you guys like to make believe anyway) I would call SAAC as my experts and use the Registry as my authoritative text. Whose your expert? Thor Maine or another "unbiased" CC member here?
Hope this helps.

Cheers.

[mdross1]

Well gentlemen now that we have beaten this subject to death, let the hair on the backs of your necks your lay back down. We can opinion this till we are blue in the face we are certainly aware that the Real 1 has a Real One his adamant defense of that fact says it all. I would hope that does not get in the way of him hanging with those of us that choose to build and drive non 62 to 68 Cobras.

[BDR1222]

It seems this thread is at loggerheads, how about a different perspective ….

Think in terms of fine art , the originals are in limited supply, always a hot item, and command premium prices. Yet, many want to have an example in their possession. Just like a Warhol, Dali, Picasso, Van Gogh or Ansel Adams. All of these great artists have been reproduced in one way or another.

Call your cobra a continuation, reproduction, replica, kit, tribute or whatever you want. Appreciate that when you open the garage, you have an example in your possession.

[Anthony]

Ahhh. This thread brings back such good memories.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Buddyg: No. I said Cobra. You added the word "original". My car is indeed a Cobra. Again, I refer you to the Registry. There are original and current production Cobras that exist today.

LMH: That's not the issue in question in this thread.

Thor Maine: There were only a few correct statements in your post one of which was obviously you had too much too drink. Likely also responsible for that bow tie power plant you used.

Paul F: As I recall those decisions, one in 2002? and one in 2010? neither said what you said. Moreover, neither dealt with the question here but different issues so even if they said what you claim it would be merely "dicta' as opposed to being part the court's ruling on the issue as courts don't provide advisory opinions they resolve legal disputes in issue. The issues were trade dress and trade mark infringement in both cases. Moreover, Court's in deciding issues don't decide by themselves but based on proofs submitted by the parties and among the proofs many times used are experts.

But.... If hyothetically this were an issue before a court (lets make believe, since you guys like to make believe anyway) I would call SAAC as my experts and use the Registry as my authoritative text. Whose your expert? Thor Maine or another "unbiased" CC member here?
Hope this helps.

Cheers.

No, you are wrong. It refers exactly to the OP's question.
Larry

[Thor maine]

So I guess we can say that Real-1, you have a genuine Shelby kit car. Federal requires that they be sold as " special built kits" (no engine no transmission). Who has the final word The Federal Government of The United States of America or Real-1 holding a copy of the SAAC registry???

[dallas_]

Why oh why oh why....

Did I even click on this thread?