Replica or a modern reproduction?

[jolsen42]

Ron,
Please, I'm begging you man, please kill this thread. I said earlier that this is just so silly, but now has turned into the most absurd posting ever. It's about people with opinions, that's all. Opinions, some of which are perverse. It's so bad that I'm actually agreeing with Evan. 142 posts (so Far), and they get more absurd with each on. Please, please Ron, kill it. My hair is hurting.

John O

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by jolsen42

Ron,
Please, I'm begging you man, please kill this thread. I said earlier that this is just so silly, but now has turned into the most absurd posting ever. It's about people with opinions, that's all. Opinions, some of which are perverse. It's so bad that I'm actually agreeing with Evan. 142 posts (so Far), and they get more absurd with each on. Please, please Ron, kill it. My hair is hurting.

John O

Honestly, does your wife have a Winchester 1873 (continuation model, made by OEM Winchester) pointed to your head telling you to read this thread? Get a grip dude, just don't read it.

Instructions for John O: When you see the link Replica or a modern reproduction? DO NOT click your mouse button on it.

[jolsen42]

Huh, It was done tongue in cheek. I'm sorry I forgot the smiley. But thanks for the instruction on how not to read it. Gee, I never thought of that. From the owner of a "reasonable facsimile of csx 2367". Actually, I get a kick out of reading this . But you must agree, that it has reached the point of absurdity.
John O

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Honestly, does your wife have a Winchester 1873 (continuation model, made by OEM Winchester) pointed to your head telling you to read this thread? Get a grip dude, just don't read it.

Instructions for John O: When you see the link Replica or a modern reproduction? DO NOT click your mouse button on it.

[Thor maine]

Ok so maybe the new CSX continuation cars have some what of a lineage to the genuine original cars from the 60's made by Shelby American, AC LTD and Ford. But they are still a replica of those cars, sold in kit form(to get around the laws of today).But The Shelby of today is not the company it was in the 60's nothing is from then, not one piece of tooling, not one person and Carroll has left this world. It is just a logo that carries on. So over across the pond AC LTD cars has sold/leased their logo and their intellectual property and new people carry on with AC Heritage and they are making continuation Cobra replicas. (like what happened with Indian motorcycles)they have restarted the COB and COX serial number system and they made a deal with GM for LS-7 engines (yahoo for the Chevy in a GENUINE COBRA guy's) So if a new CSX guys claim they have "something more" because it was made by Shelby, (one of the manufacturers of the real cars from the 60's), do the guy's with a new AC Cobra get to make that same claim??? And does the SAAC have an opinion on this???

[MRGEORGE077]

So why don't we start a vote on which one of all the replicas out there are the most real?:

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by MRGEORGE077

So why don't we start a vote on which one of all the replicas out there are the most real?:

Poll: World Registry of Cobras & GT40s - Definitions

[Ralphy]

Real1/Evan, you keep saying I can't grasp this and I can't grasp that. You can't grasp the fact my first post 14 had nothing to do with slandering any type of Cobra, period. Even though I've told your dumb ass this more than once. You later told me you define yours as a Cobra period. So how do you get my wacky ass post was aimed, especially you? Who by the way, at the time NEVER even posted on this thread? Just Damn McFly?


Go back read my post 14 and the op's title for this thread. I USED HIS WORDS WHICH YOU CLEARLY OVERLOOKED. As comedy, you know comedy no? That stuff you do when the stick is out off your ass or your not constipated?
Ralphy

[buddyg]

We are obviously not going to change each other's minds so we will have to agree to disagree.

The real thing we all can agree on is we love Cobras and no matter which one we are driving we are lucky to do so.

Group hug!

[Paul F]

No! No group hug. I haven't finished my popcorn.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Paul F

No! No group hug. I haven't finished my popcorn.

hehe, buddyg finally throwing in the towel, finally realized that no matter what he believes the SAAC Registry is the final ruling on the subject and there is no higher court to appeal to.

... and I know John O is at his wits end on this, but he also had the best answer to the OP's question early on. Too bad some (and I expect few) can't embrace that simple and honest solution.

Originally Posted by jolsen42

Just tell the truth. It's not that difficult.

John O

[buddyg]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

hehe, buddyg finally throwing in the towel, finally realized that no matter what he believes the SAAC Registry is the final ruling on the subject and there is no higher court to appeal to.

... and I know John O is at his wits end on this, but he also had the best answer to the OP's question early on. Too bad some (and I expect few) can't embrace that simple and honest solution.

No I didn't throw in the towel just realized that I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. SAAC doesn't mean **** to me, so I could care less what it or you or Real1 says! My car is a Cobra replica and so are CSX cars that's my opinion and that's all that matters.

Have fun!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by buddyg

No I didn't throw in the towel just realized that I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine. SAAC doesn't mean **** to me, so I could care less what it or you or Real1 says! My car is a Cobra replica and so are CSX cars that's my opinion and that's all that matters.

Have fun!

That a boy. Now we're getting to the essence of it. You don't like SAAc's definitions (although you and others immediately jumped on the Nedsel band wagon when you misread his post claiming validation) and you can't fit into the technical Webster definition so you rely on your own special little definition which means 0 to anyone else except obviously you. But hey your entitled to live on your own little world.

Yes, I concede that according to Webster's I have a Continuation series Cobra that replicates the original. A true replica using Websters definition.
I am willing to accept either definition SAAC's or Webster's. No problem. You however can't accept the FACT that you don't even own a "replica". It's a counterfeit copy of (actually being an SPF a licensed copy of).. well my Cobra as well as the original series. I'm sure that's unsettling to you but the truth can hurt.

The truth as exposed bare by your admission is the you don't like the facts so you'll live by you own definitions Webster's and SAAC be damned.

Cheers.

[REAL 1]

Anthony/AL427SBF: You guys obviously get it and are correct. I do appreciate the back up. Kudos to you. However, what you need to understand there are some guys who will always contort things and show lack of respect towards what they don't own to make themselves feel better about what they do own. Its called sour grapes.

Hectoror: You started this with your feigned ignorance as to how to answer the question you started with. Since you apparently already knew the answer and have "your own opinions" why did you bother us with the question to begin with? Just stick with your opinion and run with it. Its fine with me. You don't need facts and information when you have your opinion. Can't let facts get in the way can we?

Ned is correct. The new 2002 to 2009 are not replicas of the the original. Clearly not the same piece of art although made by the original artist (Ford). They are nevertheless real Thunderbirds but not "replicas" as Webster's defines "replicas".

Technically the Continuation Cobras are "replicas" of the original. How could they not be???? Duh? The definition is right there in Webster's Dictionary and the Oxford Collegiate Dictionary etc. etc... But with time the general public has lumped all non Shelby's that copy the "Cobra" to one degree or another the into the category of "Replica" so the technical meaning of "replica" has over time taken on another commonly used meaning as applied to these cars. SAAC recognized this. So.....they from a definitional and category standpoint as they set out working definitions for use in the world of Cobras and in it's world guide for reference i.e. in the Registry they set out clear definitions and categories to differentiate the cars.

So, if we stick to the technical Webster's dictionary, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you guys who don't own a Shelby or AC or KMP (KMP's are included due to their connection to SAI and use in the manufacture of current production Cobras and in the restoration of original Cobras)... you don't even have "replicas" according to the dictionary so I had to coin a new phrase the fit. "Fakeydoo".

Moreover, since the Continuation series does come from Shelby and since it is nearly exact to the original in most respects configuration wise it is a true replica as that term is used in the Dictionary with the heritage that comes along with it.

However, in light of the evolved common usage of the term "Replica" to include as Carroll put it all the "riff raff" SAAC differentiated the Continuation Series to separate it to avoid confusion. I didn't say "riff raff" Shelby did so keep that straight.

Problem is you guys either can't understand what I'm saying and what SAAC is saying and has done or (more troubling) do understand and continue to propagate your BS on public forum to sooth your own self consciousness about your car's perceived short comings s at our expense. That is known as sour grapes. For those unfamiliar with that adage its also known as envy/jealously.

So, you see you can't have it both ways. If you want to use technical definitions then you don't own replicas you own fakeydoos. If you want to use the Registry definitions (which I would recommend) you do own replicas but at the same time you have to acknowledge that the Continuation Series are not replicas as defined by SAAC.

So which source of definitions do you want to use?

Either way, however, whether the Continuation Series is a "replica" if using Webster's definition or not they are current production Cobras and are legitimate Cobras legally, definitionally and factually having heritage and provenance that can only come from Shelby American. This is something your "replica" (according to the Registry) or "fakeydoo" (technically) can and will never be. Sorry but that right there is the facts.

And buddyg , no I'm not going to just "agree to disagree" which would impute some legitimacy or correctness to your position. You are entitled to your own nonsensical opinion I'll grant you that but neither you or the others are entitled to the change the facts.

Remember, a "replica" technically is a copy of the original work created by the original artist or under his supervision so while it can be a copy of the original item it can still be a genuine Picasso, Peter Maxx etc.. or even a Shelby.

The important issue here is not replica or non replica. The important part here is that if it carries a CSX number it is legally and factually a genuine Cobra and its a Cobra according to SAAC. If you don't have a CSX, COB, COX or AC or KMP vin it ain't a Cobra.

Also, there is no doubt the original series Cobras are treasures and very valuable. They stopped producing those series years ago. There are only a finite number on the planet which make them very desirable.

I agree that as long as SAI is producing Continuation Cobras they will not appreciate in value substantially but do seem to hold their value well. They do carry a premium to own over a non Cobra but then as desirability increases so does price. An undeniable fact. . If the day should come where production of them ceases it is likely their values will rise substantially.
Yours, likely not.

Those of you who are not "stupid" as opposed to ignorant (no excuse to plead ignorance after you read the above) will understand. Those of you who keep harping the same dribble, ...well, only two explanations there, stupidity or envy. Which is it?

Cheers. Time to go drive the GT.

[OnyxRider]

You know I thought it was rather funny when I first joined with REAL1 and fordracing going at it.......ummmmm you guys not tired of this? Maybe the time is better spent with some volenteer work at a food bank or something guys.

Whatever you guys say it not going to change anything.

[buddyg]

"And buddyg , no I'm not going to just "agree to disagree" which would impute some legitimacy or correctness to your position. You are entitled to your own nonsensical opinion I'll grant you that but neither you or the others are entitled to the change the facts."



Yep and you can't change the facts either your CSX is a replica of the original!

Have fun!

[jhv48]

I can see it now. A spectator and his son come up to your Csx 40-- continuation car and ask you, "is it real?"

After getting a thirty minute lecture on the differences between a replica, a continuation car and an original cobra, according to the saac registry, he'll walk away. His son will ask him, "daddy, what did that man say?" And his dad will reply, "son, he said it was a kit car!"

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by jhv48

I can see it now. A spectator and his son come up to your Csx 40-- continuation car and ask you, "is it real?"

After getting a thirty minute lecture on the differences between a replica, a continuation car and an original cobra, according to the saac registry, he'll walk away. His son will ask him, "daddy, what did that man say?" And his dad will reply, "son, he said it was a kit car!"

Actually it takes less than 5 seconds to answer the question ...

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... when I am asked if my Cobra is real I say yes, its a "Continuation Series Shelby Cobra". If the question is "is it original" the answer is "no, its a Continuation Series Shelby Cobra" ...

For the non-CSX owners the answer would be "no, it's a Kit Car Replica from [manufacturer] of a Shelby Cobra", and that would apply to either question.

... again less that 5 seconds of your time.

Example: hey buddyg, "is it real?" or "is it original?"
Answer: "no, it's a Kit Car Replica from Superformance of a Shelby Cobra"

I know, a lot there to wrap your head around on the first pass, read it a couple of times and maybe you'll have a eureka moment.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Actually it takes less than 5 seconds to answer the question ...



For the non-CSX owners the answer would be "no, it's a Kit Car Replica from [manufacturer] of a Shelby Cobra", and that would apply to either question.

... again less that 5 seconds of your time.

Example: hey buddyg, "is it real?" or "is it original?"
Answer: "no, it's a Kit Car Replica from Superformance of a Shelby Cobra"

I know, a lot there to wrap your head around on the first pass, read it a couple of times and maybe you'll have a eureka moment.

Almost 2 weeks and a dozen pages later and your final conclusion is where we started...

See post #6

Just saying'

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Almost 2 weeks and a dozen pages later and your final conclusion is where we started...

See post #6

Just saying'

Dimis: Yes. AL427sbf is correct and so was your post #6 is if we are applying SAAc's definitions as to the OPs Spf. If we apply Websters definitions it doesn't fit into the definition of replica. It would more fairly be referred to as a licensed aesthetic copy or lookalike.

Thor Maine: You've almost got it my friend!!! I'm proud of you for your continued effort to understand the issue. Using the Wester's Dictionary definition you are spot on. However, based on SAAC's definitions and categories as developed by them to deal with the what has developed over the years as the incorrect but common inclusion of cars by the average Joe, which bare no resemblance to a Cobra except for the outward appearance (body shell) manufactured by numerous companies and even scratch builders in no way connected to the original manufacturer into the universe of "replica", again, (stay with me here) which they are not according to the literal dictionary definition SAAC set forth their own authoritative definitions and categories for correct and appropriate reference.

Using SAAC's definition you are incorrect as to applying "replica or kit" to the Continuation Cobras. Continuations are not considered in the replica/kit car category but are simply considered current production Cobras.

Pick which definitional universe you want to operate in. Can't have it both ways as it works across the board for Shelby's and non-Shelbys. If you want to use Webster's definition we have come up with a correct technical definition for non Shelbys. Some possibilities are "Fakeydoo", Pretend Cobra, Wannbe Cobra, Counterfeit Cobra, Unlicensed Copy Car. We can get creative. Alot of possibilities.

However, my recommendation is that we go with SAAC's definition, at least around here. Show CSX owners some respect and what they own some respect by merely acknowledging their cars are genuine Cobras (this doesn't mean original). No Continuation Series owners that I know of are passing their cars off as original Cobras. We all know they are not and we in turn will recognize that non Shelby's are "Replicas of Cobras" according to SAAC and we don't need to worry about coming up with a technical term which likely won't sound as good a "replica Cobra".

I would think that Cobra enthusiasts and those wanting to promote the hobby and history of Cobras would advocate SAAC's position and look to educate the public on the differences in these cars when the opportunity presents itself to those that don't know as much as you instead to coming up with nonsensical answers like "improved Shelby reproduction" and the like. For the OP it would be "its a Supraformace replica Cobra". If you own a Continuation Cobra the answer is "its a Shelby Continuation Series Cobra".

How easy is that?

Thor Maine: As to AC Heritage, I don't know what SAAC's position is on them. They are not AC nor are they AC Ltd. We would need an answer from them. They are not addressed in the last Registry.

Dimis: Again. I'm surprised you keep returning despite you promises not to return.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Almost 2 weeks and a dozen pages later and your final conclusion is where we started...

See post #6

Just saying'

Saying it's a "Superformance" is incomplete. It's a Superformance what? Your answer is missing the most critical information required to accurately describe the car in answering the question - again, more avoiding the obvious, i.e. "kit car replica of a cobra" ... TOO FUNNY!