Replica or a modern reproduction?

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Ned, I differ on your view of csx4000's. First, your description of a replica refers to a single object, such as a work of art, not a group or collection. Being that ford stopped selling the thunderbird for a while, does that mean that when they came out with them again, they were now replica's? Is the new dodge power wagon really a power wagon? or a fakey do?

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Anthony, your thoughts and comments are appreciated. In the case of the 2002-7 Thunderbirds and the new Dodge Power Wagons, they are completely different vehicles than those that originally bore the same nameplates. If Ford reintroduced a T-Bird today that identically replicated the cars from the '50's, or if Dodge were to produce a Power Wagon that tried to precisely duplicate the trucks from 60 years ago, then I believe everyone would acknowledge that they would logically be called replicas. But since the newer incarnations of these vehicles bear minimal resemblance to the originals, no one uses that terminology, which is appropriate. It's the old apples to apples vs. apples to oranges analogy.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Anthony, your thoughts and comments are appreciated. In the case of the 2002-7 Thunderbirds and the new Dodge Power Wagons, they are completely different vehicles than those that originally bore the same nameplates. If Ford reintroduced a T-Bird today that identically replicated the cars from the '50's, or if Dodge were to produce a Power Wagon that tried to precisely duplicate the trucks from 60 years ago, then I believe everyone would acknowledge that they would logically be called replicas. But since the newer incarnations of these vehicles bear minimal resemblance to the originals, no one uses that terminology, which is appropriate. It's the old apples to apples vs. apples to oranges analogy.

All excellent points. But to me, an example of a modern replica what you're describing would be a model A Shay, sold through Ford dealerships, if you know what that car is.

Obviously, no car manufacturer will ever re-produce, or re-start production , what ever you want to call it, of vehicles that were 40 years old in design for multiple reasons. But, when Winchester started making model 70 rifles again, that were back to the pre-64 design, were they model 70 replica's? or are they new model 70's? Or even better yet, a new model 1873, the gun that won the west. Is it really a genuine Winchester 1873 ? Is it a replica? I still consider it a Winchester 1873. At this point, it doesn't have the collector value of my original 1873 38-40 from 1883, but for the person who wants an genuine Winchester 1873 made today, probably better metallurgy, great. What would a Winchester rep say if you were to ask him if their new 1873 is a real, genuine Winchester 1873.

So when colt firearms came out with the series 70 1911 again, is that a replica, or is it really a new series 70? re-start of production?

this definitely can back and forth, forever.

One thing I can say different between buyers of csx4000's and csx3000's, I bet most buyers of csx4000's buy the cars to have fun, maybe even thinking about good resale value down the road, no pun intended. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/2 of the new owners of csx3000's purchase them with the intention of flipping them, not that there is anything wrong with that.

[Nedsel]

I can handle the "apples to oranges" equation. But you lose me on the cars to guns comparison. And I wouldn't call a Shay Model A a replica because too many things have been changed from the original. To me, it would more closely fit the definition of a "replicar."

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

I can handle the "apples to oranges" equation. But you lose me on the cars to guns comparison. And I wouldn't call a Shay Model A a replica because too many things have been changed from the original. To me, it would more closely fit the definition of a "replicar."

well, you lost me on the "replicar" to "replica" comparison, as I thought a replicar meant a replica pertaining to an automobile, but hey, I was never good in English, as somebody above pointed it out again to me, dammit.

After thinking about my gun analogy, I think it's a perfect analogy. I take it you're not a gun guy. The Winchester model 1873 is the most, if not one of the most iconic rifles, firearms, ever made, because of it's "performance". Other contenders being colt 1873 model P (peacemaker), m1 garand, colt 1911, etc. Anyways, Winchester manufactured the 1873 from then until 1919. They are all valuable, with a few being extremely sought after, like a 1 of 100. Telling a gun collector you stumbled upon, purchased a Winchester 1873 1 of 100 at a garage sale would likely cause him to have a cardiac arrest. An analogy would be an average joe muscle car guy stumbling upon, purchasing the missing coupe at a warehouse foreclosure sale, and calling you to find out what he actually purchased. Actually, that's a great analogy.

Anyways, the Winchester 1873 has been a highly sought after collectible for a long time, such that many other companies started to produce "replica's" for the market for various reasons, cowboy action shooting competitors, collectors, etc. I guess because the market for these is so great, Winchester decided to begin manufacturing these again, structurally the same, from what I understand, to gain a piece of the market share. I'm thinking they're more expensive than the other replica's out there. Does this seem similar to the cobra market?

Now, "Winchester" is really the same company it was, although maybe having different names at times, when it started as the Volcanic repeating Arms company, then reorganized as the new haven arms company, then reorganized as the "Winchester repeating arms company", a name that has stuck since, likely because of the model 1873. It then has sold several times to other firms, new owners, and production has moved to other states, even another country, Japan. All along, however, the name "Winchester" has remained, despite oliver Winchester dying about 130 years ago.

So, does the history of the Winchester 1873 seem similar to the business history of the cobra? To me, it's so similar it's crazy.

It's just funny how all of us here go crazy over details that 99.9999% of the population could care less about.

When people come up to me and ask me if car is real or not, I always say its not, as we all know what they are really asking is if it is a Shelby cobra made from the 1960's. Rarely, somebody comes up to me, already knowledgeable about the various cobra's on the market including the csx4000, and I call them all cobra's, because that's what they're all supposed to be. Some are more expensive, faster, more original spec, etc, but they are all cobra's, or even Shelby cobra's, as that is what the general population calls them all anyways.

I believe the csx4000's, csx7000's, csx8000's are all "true" Shelby cobra's, as they're all from the "Shelby" company.

Whether your 1873 Winchester is an "original" made from 1873 to 1919, is a modern replica of a Winchester 1873 made by navy arms, or is a new Winchester made model 1873, they're all Winchester 1873's, but the newly manufactured 1873 from Winchester to me are still genuine Winchester 1873's.

If you, or anybody else can't understand this, not that you have to agree, I can't help you. Understanding and agreeing are not the same. I still don't understand replicar vs replica.