Kirkham vs Shelby

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by nkb

Is the SPF slabside generally understood to have a more accurate body than the ERA? That could definitely influence my decision between the two (or the CSX fiberglass )

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

And as a follow-on question, is there a difference between the SPF and CSX slab sides (body, frame, suspension) since I understand SPF (Hi Tech) supplies Shelby? I had initially thought the only difference was in branding and a CSX VIN number. But, perhaps there are more physical differences for the two slab sides even though ostensibly from the same manufacturer ?

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by Buzz

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

The customer service from ERA will be light years better that SPF...

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by nkb

As a new prospective cobra replica buyer I have been researching the various options out there. I am looking at 289 slabside. I basically winnowed it down to ERA (Fiberglass) and Kirkham (Aluminum), though still haven't completely ruled out others. I readily got pricing for the ERA but had some difficulty getting current Kirkham pricing.

Based upon perusing this forum I had guessed perhaps that a Kirkham roller could be $100K+ as it seemed that is what various others had experienced. However, the quote I finally received was more in the range of the Shelby aluminum version. $200K for a roller with 50% down. But without the CSX continuation VIN of the Shelby, I think. $20K discount if not assembled. No special options or finish were included. Option, $25K for polish or brushed.

Seems that Kirkham has perhaps made a major pricing change recently (unless all of my information was very stale). It also makes the used Kirkhams out there more attractive (less expensive).

The Kirkham website used to have a pricing calculator for options. If you pushed all the option buttons the price probably quickly approached $200K, but that included the polished or brushed finish. One of the expensive options was the original style suspension with girling style brakes. Did you ask for that? Or were you getting the billet style suspension for that $200K price? Perhaps their prices have really gone up in the last couple of years.

I doubt Kirkham made many slabsides, so it may be quite a while before you see a used one come up for sale.

Although at the current pricing you might like a CSX over a Kirkham, regardless of what you get, you want to get someone qualified to do the engine/transmission install and alignment. On Facebook for the last couple of weeks David Kirkham has been posting about a small block CSX continuation car that was completely messed up by "ORCs" as he calls them. There was bailing wire and a plastic zip tie on a broken leaf spring, grinder marks on all kinds of things, metal filings in the differential, extra holes drilled in the engine mounts, messed up transmission mount due to using the wrong bellhousing and dozens of more problems. David and team are doing a lot of work to get this CSX rebuilt correctly. I would hate to see the bill after Kirkham gets done getting this car right. I wonder who the owner used to originally install the engine and align the car. I hope it was an amatuer mechanic and not a Shelby dealer.

[KarlzEE Bebout]

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by KarlzEE Bebout

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

It's time we adopt a new rule that says that if you manage to spend $250k on your car then it is deemed to be real.

[1985 CCX]

Originally Posted by KarlzEE Bebout

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

Cannot disagree but that was not the question for starters.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Cannot disagree but that was not the question for starters.

And once you go past a certain point, it's arguable that you don't even get what you're paying for.

[1ntCobra]

Well it is not a CSX 8000 slabside, but there is an aluminum 50th Anniversary CSX 7000 FIA on BAT ending in a few hours.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...h-anniversary/

I suspect that the seller will want more than $200K for it. I wonder if it will meet the reserve price. On the other hand if the seller is thinking about the 50th Anniversary badges, maybe the seller will set the reserve to be more like $300K.

[incoming]

I almost had my wife talked into buying an Aurora in Atlanta two years ago. I constantly show her the prices for them now after the movie.

She occasionally thinks my toys might be investments now.

Knuckleheads, Panheads, Shovelheads,etc. I also used to buy almost anything Mauser.

She says when I die she'll have a large garage sale. Told her the local Saints and ATF will both show up.

[nkb]

Following another current topic thread here it looks like the California CARB (California Air Resources Board) has thrown a wrench into registering replicas. They are maintaining that “rollers” don’t qualify for exemption from smog rules and can’t be registered. They want cars to be assembled from the “ground up” by the hobbyist and further not for resale.

Not sure where this might end up. Obviously the principal suppliers must be fighting this. But if this situation persists then Shelby and SPF rollers could not be registered in California.

Kirkham and ERA will deliver non rollers, if desired, that presumably would still qualify. Of course you need to assemble them.

Hopefully, this registration snafu will get cleared up.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by nkb

Kirkham and ERA will deliver non rollers, if desired, that presumably would still qualify. Of course you need to assemble them.

Hopefully, this registration snafu will get cleared up.

Alright, we're closing in on a month since your original post. Any progress? Or have you thrown in the towel.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Alright, we're closing in on a month since your original post. Any progress? Or have you thrown in the towel.

I haven't thrown in the towel yet. Continuing my education. Went to the Cobra Experience - a must see if you can make it. Spoke with Drew Serb as well as several Cobra replica owners in attendance.

I have no news that the registration snafu here in California has been cleared up yet. Local SPF/CSX dealer here says he expects it to get straightened out. Question is if and when?

For the 289 (slabside) I think I have narrowed it down to SPF and ERA.

Pros for the SPF:
- Delivery time (including paint) is about 7 months.
- More correct chassis and suspension
Cons:
- Marginally more expensive (but depends on how much to paint the ERA)
- Delivered as a roller {pro and con). Seems to cause some CA BAR referees to rule the SPF as not a kit - potentially disqualified for smog exempt registration. TBD


Pros for the ERA:
- Peter seems to be great guy. Would be enjoyable to work with.
- More flexibility on the degree of completeness of assembly as delivered. Opportunity to do more of the work myself. May assist in the CA registration, clearly qualifying it as a kit.

Cons for the ERA:
- Delivery time 14 months. And then paint (another 12 weeks as per Peter). But could paint locally, later. Could leave unpainted for the CA registration - would help the case that it is a kit?
- Chassis and suspension, while apparently well engineered, does not attempt to be original. Wondering about the inboard rear brakes being a headache.
- Have to pay for shipping from East to West Coast.

I ruled out the Kirkham, as way too expensive - now around $250K. And the cost of the Shelby fiberglass CSX as not worth it (to me) with the significant bump over the SPF.


In the meantime I have not driven a Cobra in 50 years (CSX). Makes sense to test drive an SPF or ERA first before placing an order. Hopefully a 289.

And I continue to monitor the registration environment here in California.

Hopefully, I anticipate pulling the trigger on this by the end of the year.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by nkb

I haven't thrown in the towel yet. Continuing my education. Went to the Cobra Experience - a must see if you can make it. Spoke with Drew Serb as well as several Cobra replica owners in attendance.

I have no news that the registration snafu here in California has been cleared up yet. Local SPF/CSX dealer here says he expects it to get straightened out. Question is if and when?

For the 289 (slabside) I think I have narrowed it down to SPF and ERA.

Pros for the SPF:
- Delivery time (including paint) is about 7 months.
- More correct chassis and suspension
Cons:
- Marginally more expensive (but depends on how much to paint the ERA)
- Delivered as a roller {pro and con). Seems to cause some CA BAR referees to rule the SPF as not a kit - potentially disqualified for smog exempt registration. TBD


Pros for the ERA:
- Peter seems to be great guy. Would be enjoyable to work with.
- More flexibility on the degree of completeness of assembly as delivered. Opportunity to do more of the work myself. May assist in the CA registration, clearly qualifying it as a kit.

Cons for the ERA:
- Delivery time 14 months. And then paint (another 12 weeks as per Peter). But could paint locally, later. Could leave unpainted for the CA registration - would help the case that it is a kit?
- Chassis and suspension, while apparently well engineered, does not attempt to be original. Wondering about the inboard rear brakes being a headache.
- Have to pay for shipping from East to West Coast.

I ruled out the Kirkham, as way too expensive - now around $250K. And the cost of the Shelby fiberglass CSX as not worth it (to me) with the significant bump over the SPF.


In the meantime I have not driven a Cobra in 50 years (CSX). Makes sense to test drive an SPF or ERA first before placing an order. Hopefully a 289.

And I continue to monitor the registration environment here in California.

Hopefully, I anticipate pulling the trigger on this by the end of the year.

I have owned both cars ERA and CSX (427s) I can tell you from 1st hand experience:

I got my HT/SPF CSX car from Denbeste, Bill is a great guy and was very helpful on the sale of the car but that's where his customer service stops. Bill directed me to call Hillbank for service issues and parts. The customer service from Hillbank (CSX and SPF dealer) is the worst I have ever dealt with EVER.

I often called David Kirkham for help on issues I had with my CSX car as the kirkham car and the GLASS CSX car are very similar (except the glass body) David Kirkham is just like Peter P in terms of customer service. A++

ERA is the exact Opposite, Peter is the best in the business. he has help me over the 17 years I owned the car and even to this day...

I cant say anything about the slabside cars as I have owned 427 cars, but one thing I can say is the SPF 427 and the CSX GLASS HT/SPF cars are completely different. I am not saying one is better than the other, I am simply stating they are different cars completely.

in terms of the quality of the roller:
The Era car was perfect everything was bolt on...

The CSX Car had several issues that needed to be repaired, some done in the south Africa factory and most of the issues like the wrong hardware being installed in the drive train and the electrical/gauges being wired wrong were done by Hillbank or whoever they hired to do the installation. Needless to say it took me a lot of time to fix all the issues with the car. But at the end of the day its a top shelf car... The ERA was perfect from day one.

But if holding value is an issue you cant go wrong with either the ERA, SPF or the CSX.

[Sycraft]

so sell without wheels, cant roll...

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

My 50 cents here. The quality of the ERA product is second to none. They will never let a car go without being near-perfect. And if you have a problem, Peter will fix it, or make it right. Fifteen years on the road, and no issues at all. That's a 427 car. I expect the slab car is just as refined.

[ERA 626]

Let me be clear, I got the car from Denbeste. Bill and Lori Denbeste are great people to deal with but Bill just sells cars that bought form other people like Hillbank and Kirkham.They do Not build the cars in house.

My car was build in late 2011 and was sitting on the "cobra wall for 9 years before I got the car. bill got the car from hillbank. all the work that was done to the car after it was shipped from South Africa was done by hillbank and or a sub contractor for hillbank, I think I know who it is but I wont say it here. PM me for details. Who ever did the final assembly was a first class idiot. I am not talking a simple mistake I am talking being incompetent, view my build thread about the fuel sender and the vent lines. The key switch was WIRED WRONG. but the car is amazing after I addressed these issues. I am sure Denbeste did not know about these issues and he would have fixed them had I took the car back to him again Bill and Lori are good people. I decided to just fix the car myself. I am a garage mechanic with over 20 years experiance with cobras and Racing. I also have a nice lift in my garage. But for the average joe who wants a roller ready to bolt in a drive train. be prepared to spend some time fixing stuff or just get a Kirkham for $100k more. I wanted a CSX car and at the end of the Day I am happy. but if money was not an issue I would get a Kirkham built CSX. The ERA car I had was great and so is ERA customer service.

Hillbank is horrible.

[sgianino]

Ooops sorry that didnt work, how do i take a photo from my desk top and add to a post?

[nkb]

ERA 626:

You apparently have recently completed your build including a very impressive engine.

Have you started your California registration yet? Interested on how that goes as that remains a concern.

[sgianino]