Cam Recommendations?

[FatBoy]

Hi Doug,

Thank you for thinking of me.

I assume you have the solid lifters to go with it and that they've been numbered to ensure they're put back on the same cam lobes.

I recognise that you're replacing other items in your engine, but were you happy with the cam and what characteristics did you want to change? We often do some long distance tours in our Cobra, so I can't have a cam that is too extreme.

In the general scheme of things, new cams aren't expensive, but please drop me a PM to tell me how much you want for it.

Thank you,
Paul

[blykins]

I have about 30-40 tapered ones and prefer to use them, but I could never find one for a standard bore 427, so I just use an adjustable one.

He meant no oil or lubricant between the bearing shell and the rod or main.

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by blykins

I have about 30-40 tapered ones and prefer to use them, but I could never find one for a standard bore 427, so I just use an adjustable one.

He meant no oil or lubricant between the bearing shell and the rod or main.

Ah, okay, that makes more sense. 🙂

Are any types of ring compressors better than others?

[blykins]

What's your exact bore size? I see that ARP now has a 4.232".

If you can buy a tapered compressor, I like those best. If not, just an adjustable band type will work with a little finesse.

[dcdoug]

Yes I have the solid lifters and they are in the order they came off the lobes. The lifters are Holman Moody solid shell type hollow lifters.

As for the cam, I loved this cam on my standard bore/stroke 427. It had a great loping idle, wasn't too wild and was easy to drive - but was great at WOT too. It did have a fair amount of overlap though, so it didn't like to be lugged, but that was only an issue if I was too lazy to downshift in heavy traffic and I never found it to be a big deal.

Here's a few vid links:

Start-up on an engine stand: https://youtu.be/EUBzCll5Cg0

Autocrossing in 2nd gear: https://youtu.be/ifiZnPmcvKU

I wouldn't replace the cam, except now that I've had to do a clean-up overbore AND found a hairline crack in my crank, I'm changing to a stroker rotating assembly resulting in a ~482. Brent tells me my cam will feel like a RV cam in the new motor.

I did tell him I wanted to come up with a comparable grind for the new motor with the one addition that he could tweak it for autocrossing duties as I'm doing more of that now that I was before.

[Shootnride]

Paul,

I personally think one of the most important aspects of cam selection that is often overlooked, is dynamic compression. If you're not familiar with what dynamic compression ratio is, there are some pretty decent articles on the web. Here's one :
Dynamic Compression - Hot Rod Network

Ted

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Shootnride

Paul,

I personally think one of the most important aspects of cam selection that is often overlooked, is dynamic compression. If you're not familiar with what dynamic compression ratio is, there are some pretty decent articles on the web. Here's one :
Dynamic Compression - Hot Rod Network

Ted

Yes, that is why the inlet closing timing point is the most important event of the four opening and closing points.

[FatBoy]

I've exchanged a few PM's with Doug and it looks like his HM cam may well have found a new future home. Using Doug's cam has the added advantage that it's already been broken in, so I won't have to go through the stress of doing it myself.

This will be my winter project, so I'll keep you posted.

Paul

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

I've exchanged a few PM's with Doug and it looks like his HM cam may well have found a new future home. Using Doug's cam has the added advantage that it's already been broken in, so I won't have to go through the stress of doing it myself.

This will be my winter project, so I'll keep you posted.

Paul

Good. Of course, there's a $200 additional fee for him to individually label each lifter with 1I, 2E, 3I, 4E, etc....

[blykins]

I would still use a small break-in period.

Yes, the lifters have been burnished to that camshaft, but the lifter bore positions vary from block to block, and even the lifter bore clearances vary.

A lot of guys buy cams already broken in from Cam Research, since they have a "cam break-in machine" and I have heard of several instances of the cams failing even after that procedure.

Not trying to be a negative Nancy, but just urging you to be cautious.

[eschaider]

For those who would like a copy of the s/w here is an alternative way to get it if you want.

Go to => CamChart s/w and download it from the post that you will see over there.


Ed

[FatBoy]

Hi Doug,

Can you drop me a PM and let me know how much you want for your cam and followers please. One big advantage of your cam is that it has already been run in, so I wouldn't have to go through the stressful breaking in process.

Paul

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

Hi Doug,

Can you drop me a PM and let me know how much you want for your cam and followers please. One big advantage of your cam is that it has already been run in, so I wouldn't have to go through the stressful breaking in process.

Paul

Will do. I'd be happy to see it go to a good home.

[A98Coupe]

Paul,

I recommend you stop using Valvoline VR1. It doesn't have sufficient ZDDP. It's probably why you lost you cam eventually. You need to switch to a proper performance oil. Joe Gibbs Driven hot rod oil is the only way to go. Take a look at the Anglo American Oil website and all will be explained. They are the UK distributer for Joe Gibbs & Sunoco racing fuels.

[FatBoy]

Hi Stuart,

I've been using VR1 specifically because it has high levels of ZDDP. Many people swear by it and you're the first person I've heard question its suitability. What level of ZDDP do you think we need in our engines?

It's even been suggested that I just use a good quality diesel engine oil, so it is really difficult to get definitive advice when it comes to oil. I even called Opie ould and spoke to one of their technologists and he fundamentally said that "high" ZDDP content oil was just marketing bull**** and that any good quality oil would have sufficient levels. Then there's the whole mineral vs. synthetic argument. There is a synthetic Mobil 1 that has higher levels of ZDDP, which has been recommended.

I don't know why my cam failed, but I could reasonably have argued with all conviction that VR1 was "the only way to go" based on 30,000 miles of trouble-free motoring, right up to the point when it failed.

I'll take a look at the website and read with interest.

Thanks,
Paul

Paul

[patrickt]

Here's a VOA for Valvoline VR1 from 2016. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub...pics/4177567/1 These values for zinc and phosphorous, if accurate, are too low for solid flat tappet cams. Now, the VR1 data sheet lists the values as higher (0.14/0.13). Most SFT guys nowadays go with either Joe Gibbs or Brad Penn exclusively. I use the latter, and you can order either brand off of Amazon, even if you live in the Arctic Circle.

[Shootnride]

Here is a link to a VERY lengthy article that one SAE engineer wrote on his testing of hundreds of oils. If you get to the last portion of the article he ranks all of his tests with results. In his testing he ranked the Valvoline VR1 at #36 and the Joe Gibbs Hot Rod at #97. It's an interesting read. You can make your own opinion about his testing.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

Ted

[patrickt]

I forgot to mention that I also add a bottle of the original GM EOS, not the stuff they changed to about five or six years ago and then kept the same name. I still have a case of it. That's probably the equivalent of that author's "Oil Extreme Concentrate" stuff, which bumped the BP rating up to the #20 slot.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Shootnride

Here is a link to a VERY lengthy article that one SAE engineer wrote on his testing of hundreds of oils. If you get to the last portion of the article he ranks all of his tests with results. In his testing he ranked the Valvoline VR1 at #36 and the Joe Gibbs Hot Rod at #97. It's an interesting read. You can make your own opinion about his testing.

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/

Ted

This is too much to read in a reasonable time, but it sure is interesting. Thanks for the link.

In short, I find this to be the best information I have ever found. It fits with everything I have experience with, with one exception (later). His chosen test method, in my opinion, is exactly what you need to know about cam failure.

I have often said I believe there is something to the ZDDP, but I am not convinced that everything said is gospel. This data shows that it is not ZDDP alone, and I believe his tests are accurate.

He states that oil is not compressible. It is typically stated that polymers are like oil and are not compressible. I do know that polymers are compressible. It is very little, and it takes a lot pressure. It doesn't matter at small volumes, but it can with vary large volumes. I suspect a large volume of oil at a high pressure will slightly compress as most things will. Now that said this is a technical point for geeks and clearly not the audience the data was intended for, and will not matter in an engine. For all practical purposes, this guy is spot on, on everything I read. I only made this point, because someone always wants to criticize on some technicality, for various motives. Sure nothing is perfect, but I really think this is the best information out there and only a fool would attack it.

[patrickt]

FWIW, Brad Penn oil is the Kendall oil that we all knew as kids. It's green, and always has been green. The Kendall oil they sell now is not the Kendall oil of yesteryear. The GM EOS that they sell now is not the GM EOS that they sold many years ago. The "classic old school" oiling method that everyone I ever knew, and who is still alive, used back in the day for a SFT, and before ZDDP was a household word, was to use Kendall oil with a bottle of EOS. But, if you just trot to the auto parts store this afternoon and brought home Kendall Oil and a bottle of GM EOS, it would be completely different from what it once was.