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08-05-2009, 07:09 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,889
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
Also, my advice again is to lose the aluminum flywheel.
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Brent, you know that without a flywheel and cam change he's not going to be happy with the clutch you sell him, regardless of what that clutch may be.
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08-05-2009, 07:25 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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Well by all means, if he can reuse most of his parts, I would rather see him do that. But the aluminum flywheel is a no-no with his engine characteristics and a street application.
I'm here for free advice though, so I'll do what I can.
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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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08-05-2009, 07:32 AM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,889
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
I'm here for free advice though, so I'll do what I can.
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You need to go on retainer... it's tough to make a living on free advice. But you've earned this sale, in my book.
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08-05-2009, 08:24 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
Posts: 2,008
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Not Ranked
So you say there is another Long style presure plate and it's different from the one I have now? And yore not talking about McLeods Borg & Beck Long presurew plate? It My presure plate is a a 12" long style with the cut out holes near the mounting bolts to clear the 12" plate. Is the 2,100 LBS the max for my Baby presure plate? I don't like idea that I have a baby presure plate. I now have the flywheel out and haven't found anything to point at and say this is why it wore so quickly. Would this other Long Style presure plate fit my flywheel as it is?
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Mike H
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08-06-2009, 02:00 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,389
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Correct, McLeod has two Long pressure plates available. One that is meant as a stock replacement or a little higher, then one that is quite a bit higher for high performance engines. Any 11.5"/12" Long pressure plate should fit your pattern.
As for upgrading yours, I'm not for sure. If your clutch shop says they can, then that's an option.
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www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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08-06-2009, 01:48 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
WA
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
Posts: 2,008
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12", 12", 12", what part of 12" didn't you read ? My 12" McLeod Long Style presure plate has 12 ( 3 groups of 4)springs in it also, not the usual 6 or 9. How can that be the baby pressure plate?
About the Street Twin disc set up . How do you get release on two discs? More travel on the levers? If I'm using all the pedal throw to accomadate my single disc with free travel and full clutch release. Wouldn"t the levers in the presure plate have to move farther to get all 4 contact areas on two discs to have clearance for full release?
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Mike H
Last edited by Michael C Henry; 08-08-2009 at 11:14 AM..
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08-06-2009, 04:29 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
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Michael,
My advice is to quit worrying about the details and let someone set you up with the correct clutch kit.
You could have already had the new clutch installed by now if you would had quit worrying about silly details and just taken the advice of someone that sells this stuff everyday.
You seem like you want to do this your own way anyway, so the best of luck to you. I've done all I can do and have responded at great length to your posts and to your emails, outlining exactly the parts that you need, and trying to help you reuse parts and stay away from 1200-1300hp clutch kits that you don't need.
__________________
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
Last edited by blykins; 08-06-2009 at 04:37 PM..
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08-06-2009, 04:42 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 21,889
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So Brent, what do you think of maybe a nine inch clutch with about 1400 lbs. clamping force?
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08-06-2009, 05:42 PM
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You know, that's what they use on a lot of drag cars...maybe not 9", but they use a very low static pressure adjustable pressure plate and combine it with a very sticky disc. It slips coming out of the hole so it won't shock the tires, but when it grabs, it grabs.
BTW, are you trying to be funny? LOL
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08-06-2009, 08:46 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
Posts: 2,008
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I'm sorry if you feel I was messing with. I was asking questions about things I'm not sure of. Realize this clutch I have could be 15 to 20 years old . This car was started back in 84. My Mcleod Long Style presure plate doesn't look like any of the Long style presure plates shown in their latest catalog. It doesn't have adjustable springs. It has 12 springs and someone at McLeod had written with a black marker pen( 2,100 LBS @0.300" ) last tim it was there being repaired. It has the clearence cuts outs like the ones shown in the Borg & Beck picture. What would be the clamping force on this herky Long style presure plate you mentioned? Not ever having a Diaphram or Borg & Beck presure plates before, I'm tyring get some insite. The catalog doesn't make any mention fo the clamping forces. Is 2,100 lbs a light spring presure? All I could deduce is the current heavey long presure plate you are in favor of must be around 2,600 lbs. Am I wrong?
Just looking at the picture of the Borg & Beck Long style presure plate, the cover just looks heavier and less likely to distort under the high spring presures exerted. I can see it has a different bolt pattern.
My experience was back in 68, I put a 406 in a 55 two door sedan. As I remember the factory 11 1/2" persure plate had places for 9 springs but only had 6 springs in use. I remember the clutch shop In DesMoines IA, dissassembled the presure plate, removed the 6 original springs and installed 9 heavier springs. That presure plate was a leg full. I know the springs are color coded but I couldn't tell one from another otherwise.
I wanted to find somethings out and form some of my own opinions before I made a decision and spent money. I started this thread when the car was still running and I was just concerned about the seemingly rapid wear and need for almost constant adjustment. I now blame it's failure on the life expendancy of my clutch disc was was up and had worn beyond its prime. I plan on a new disc a little larger and with different materials. I've never had a clutch disc with linnings of anything other than continous organic material.
I found 2.5.92 stamped into center area of flywheel and 3-12-92 stamped into the cover on the presure plate. SFR 0171 is stamped into both flywheel and presure plate.
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Mike H
Last edited by Michael C Henry; 08-08-2009 at 11:20 AM..
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08-07-2009, 01:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
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Ok! I have a partial answer to the why my disc was wearing away so fast. The local clutch shop honed the surface and redid the springs back to the 2,100 LBS. Turns out the presure plate had fallen to 1,200 LBS. That brings out another question. With no signs of heat, Why did the spring tension fall off so much? Do the springs just get old and give up?
If there is another McLeod 12" presure plate for a Ford FE with a higher spring load, what is it's part number, what is it's spring load, and how much wil it cost?
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Mike H
Last edited by Michael C Henry; 08-07-2009 at 01:45 PM..
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08-07-2009, 03:21 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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There is a higher clamping load 11.5"/12" pressure plate available from McLeod. Part # 360650. I emailed McLeod for the exact pressure, but my guess is that it's about 2600-2800lbs. It's $210.
With that particular pressure plate and the 500 series disc, the clutch rating is between 500 and 550hp.
If you baby this thing around and never get into the secondaries like you say, much less have it on the strip, I'd be tempted to tell you to reuse your existing plate with the new disc. Also, if you truly think it's just 450 hp, then again I would stay with the smaller plate.
I don't really know why the springs gave up, but if they're as old as you say they are, they could have just softened up. Valve springs tend to do that too.
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Last edited by blykins; 08-07-2009 at 03:24 PM..
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08-07-2009, 06:18 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
Posts: 2,008
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Back in 2001 when I damaged the fingers and sent This long style presure plate to McLeod to be repaired. That is when they wrote the 2,100 LBS on the presure plate cover. I would have thought the springs were new or up to snuff then.
I went to Summits site to see a picture of #360650. They say it's a Long style but the picture shows a diaphram.
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Mike H
Last edited by Michael C Henry; 08-08-2009 at 11:21 AM..
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08-07-2009, 08:22 PM
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CC Member
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Trust me. It's Long style.
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08-07-2009, 11:29 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
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Have you actually seen one of these presure plates or are you operating out of a book. I know you aren't useing the catalog I have, or there website. How many springs are there in #360650 to get 2,600 -2,800 lbs? If only 12 springs ,why couldn't I get my old presure plate resprung to that kind of presure? Is it significantly different from my presure plate? Do they have a printed table of the off the shelf static spring presure and perhaps the maximum recamended spring presure after replacing the springs for each size and or style of presure plate or is this a personel experience thing, knowing what you can do with the presure plate after it comes from the factory?
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Mike H
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08-08-2009, 05:26 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
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Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
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Michael, you're making this WAY too hard. I'm now counting this as a personal challenge to see how strong my inner will is.
I don't sit around and count pressure plate springs.
Each pressure plate is rated for a certain clamping force. When it is coupled with a particular clutch disc, you get a result.
Now, the only questions you need to ask are:
1. How much horsepower am I making?
2. Am I going to drive like a mad man, or am I going to cruise through Central Park eating an ice cream cone and sipping a milk shake.
You have said repeatedly that you think you have around 450hp. You also say that you never get into the secondaries.
If it never slipped except when taking off before with a pressure plate that was making 1200lbs of static pressure, then you must be driving it awfully easy.
Stay with the pressure plate you have now, respring it to where it's back to 2100, and get a new disc and throw out bearing.
I'm done.
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08-09-2009, 01:39 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
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Ok. What do I torque the flywheel bolts to? It'll take a day for me to get the bell houseing bolted up. They canceled the Nascar race at Watkins Glen for today. They will run it a noon est on Monday on ESPN.
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Mike H
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08-27-2009, 09:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
Posts: 2,008
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I'm home now. Parts must have come Monday. I got it all together, I put everything away and surprise, I do not have release. It will try to drag the car when in gear and cutch pedal against the firewall when cranking the starter. It looks as if I need more travel with this disc. Same slave cylinder and so on, but when I watch from underneath it looks like the disc flexing as the last of my travel is used up. The slave cylinder rod seems to move just a little over 1/2". I installed this disk brass buttons against the flywheel as the picture on the box mentiones. Theat put the torsion springs towards the transmaission. Trans went in by hand, no pulling it in with bolts. I'm going to try a larger Tilton master cylinder moving from a 15/16" dia to 1" dia wich I have.
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Mike H
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08-28-2009, 04:09 AM
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Yes, the flat side of the disc always goes to the flywheel, so the hub goes towards the transmission.
I would imagine you just need to adjust your slave cylinder pushrod. Did you try that?
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08-28-2009, 12:04 PM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: TACOMA,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Everett Morrision FE 427 so 2-4s
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Yes I adjusted the oush rod, It looks like this clutch disc will take more travel to go from applied to release.
__________________
Mike H
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