How do you handle the questions?

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Buzz

So Shelby is a Cobra replica manufacturer after all??

The authoritative definition or classification of the continuation series Shelby cobras are set forth in the SAAC registry not by Al's loose usage of the term. Really, let's not be silly.

Everyone can establish their own definitions. Knock yourselves out. It's a free country. However I doubt many will give a rat's patuty about any personal definitions that are at odds with the World Registry and that would include me.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The authoritative definition or classification of the continuation series Shelby cobras are set forth in the SAAC registry not by Al's loose usage of the term. Really, let's not be silly.

Everyone can establish their own definitions. Knock yourselves out. It's a free country. However I doubt many will give a rat's patuty about any personal definitions that are at odds with the World Registry and that would include me.

Court Ruling
Judges Rogers, Walsh and Bergsman presiding -
Shelby continuation cobras are kit cars along with the rest of the non-60's Cobras.

Choke on it.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Court Ruling
Judges Rogers, Walsh and Bergsman presiding -
Shelby continuation cobras are kit cars along with the rest of the non-60's Cobras.

Choke on it.

Gee, you seem like such an angry little chap I know, your frustrated since I debunked your little fallacious, disingenuous and misleading effort to diminish Shelby's role in the creation of the Cobra. Your having such a difficult time here. So now in your rush to "pile on" you went down the same prime rose path poor PaulF went down even citing the Circuit judges names. Impressive.

You also seem to have a penchant for not only trying to skew facts and history but like PaulF exposing your ignorance on subjects you clearly don't understand.

BTW, do you have a copy of the opinion or were you just following PaulF? Don't tell me its the blind leading the blind. How embarassing for such a supercilious little bloke. Ouch.

Cheers.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

The authoritative definition or classification of the continuation series Shelby cobras are set forth in the SAAC registry not by Al's loose usage of the term. Really, let's not be silly.

Everyone can establish their own definitions. Knock yourselves out. It's a free country. However I doubt many will give a rat's patuty about any personal definitions that are at odds with the World Registry and that would include me.

I know why Evan gets tired responding to this topic all the time. I'm tired as well.

I like what Ned Scudder, the SAAC Cobra Registrar had to say way back on 5/20/15:

"As for the inclusion of the new cars in the SAAC registry, I have yet to be advised exactly what is supposed to be happening. Some time ago it was decided (or so I thought) that SAAC would deal with the historic cars, and let Shelby American handle the replicas they have made. The DenBeste press release says their cars will be submitted to/ included in the SAAC registry, but that's as much as has been said. I can say with certainty that these cars will not appear with the cars from the 60's regardless of their chassis numbers or whatever they are eventually called."

Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I know why Evan gets tired responding to this topic all the time. I'm tired as well.

I like what Ned Scudder, the SAAC Cobra Registrar had to say way back on 5/20/15:

"As for the inclusion of the new cars in the SAAC registry, I have yet to be advised exactly what is supposed to be happening. Some time ago it was decided (or so I thought) that SAAC would deal with the historic cars, and let Shelby American handle the replicas they have made. The DenBeste press release says their cars will be submitted to/ included in the SAAC registry, but that's as much as has been said. I can say with certainty that these cars will not appear with the cars from the 60's regardless of their chassis numbers or whatever they are eventually called."

Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

Yes, yes. Ned wrote that. Yes, Ned is the Registrar for the original cars (427 or 289, can't remember and very knowledgeable as to the history of the original cars) however that statement was made in the context of the new "completion cars" discussion and the personal statement made by him does not represent an official statement by the organization whose text and definitions are clear and expressly stated.

[Tommy]

There are people in the vintage Corvette world who will pay an above average price for a car listed as "numbers matching" even when there is little evidence beyond the superficial appearance of the car to substantiate it. I suspect they do it because it makes them feel good to say, "It's a numbers matching car" on the forums and at the car shows. Any many of them will no doubt sell them at a premium price later to someone else also wants a "numbers matching" car but can't afford a well documented "numbers matching" car with true providence. It seems there will always be a market for cars that cost a little more than average and allow their owners to pass them off as the much more expensive cars they are not.

Correction: "providence" should have been "provenance".

[jhv48]

And we're off again!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Tommy

There are people in the vintage Corvette world who will pay an above average price for a car listed as "numbers matching" even when there is little evidence beyond the superficial appearance of the car to substantiate it. I suspect they do it because it makes them feel good to say, "It's a numbers matching car" on the forums and at the car shows. Any many of them will no doubt sell them at a premium price later to someone else also wants a "numbers matching" car but can't afford a well documented "numbers matching" car with true providence. It seems there will always be a market for cars that cost a little more than average and allow their owners to pass them off as the much more expensive cars they are not.

Really???? Tell us you don't know why or understand why numbers matching is significant. Sheesh,

[Tommy]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Really???? Tell us you don't know why or understand why numbers matching is significant. Sheesh,

I keep forgetting that subtlety doesn't work for some folks. .. I was going to explain, but I suspect it's hopeless.

[Joe's Garage]

Evan you are such a clown. You've already been outed on the other thread as one who spins opinions as facts and misstates history to suit your own agenda. It was a pleasure to see LMH take you to school after a good spanking.

As for the SAAC, nothing more than a special interest rag sold to its' members to make money. The "mission", cater to the broadest membership base they can get, more members = more money. People pay to drink the kool aid, no better example than you who lives and breathes on every word that rag has to say.

Every so often, a legal dispute on the classification of these cars makes its' way to the courts and it is there that clarity is provided and decisions are handed down. You my friend own a kit car just like the majority of cobra enthusiasts do, that is the legal decision of the court by three judges who have no vested interest or bias in the decision - deal with it.

As a footnote, the SAAC Registry follows the loosest standards of any publication dedicated to the preservation of specific automobile history. If you can show the right series CSX number on your frame then the Registry says you have an original. The entire remainder of the car can be a kluge of parts gotten from God knows where, but if you have that CSX number you're in. Trying pulling that BS with any other historical car and you will be laughed out of town as a real idiot who thought he had "an original".

It's too bad, the SAAC could have done it right like everybody else with stringent standards to get into the Registry, but money and greed took over to create a club publication that is worthless in the eyes of true automotive historians.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Evan you are such a clown. You've already been outed on the other thread as one who spins opinions as facts and misstates history to suit your own agenda. It was a pleasure to see LMH take you to school after a good spanking.

As for the SAAC, nothing more than a special interest rag sold to its' members to make money. The "mission", cater to the broadest membership base they can get, more members = more money. People pay to drink the kool aid, no better example than you who lives and breathes on every word that rag has to say.

Every so often, a legal dispute on the classification of these cars makes its' way to the courts and it is there that clarity is provided and decisions are handed down. You my friend own a kit car just like the majority of cobra enthusiasts do, that is the legal decision of the court by three judges who have no vested interest or bias in the decision - deal with it.

As a footnote, the SAAC Registry follows the loosest standards of any publication dedicated to the preservation of specific automobile history. If you can show the right series CSX number on your frame then the Registry says you have an original. The entire remainder of the car can be a kluge of parts gotten from God knows where, but if you have that CSX number you're in. Trying pulling that BS with any other historical car and you will be laughed out of town as a real idiot who thought he had "an original".

It's too bad, the SAAC could have done it right like everybody else with stringent standards to get into the Registry, but money and greed took over to create a club publication that is worthless in the eyes of true automotive historians.

Back to calling names? I'll let history, facts and my statements on the other thread speak for themselves and those who know history and the facts can draw their own conclusions. LMH and I actually reached a consensus in the end. Perhaps you missed that? Still stuck on trying to give the Brits the lions share of the credit I see. Carry on.

You again display your ignorance of the Shelby court decisions and the issues and holdings and findings. You don't seem to be able to grasp your folly. The issues and decisions handed down don't say or hold what you mistakenly think they say. I would help you but you don't deserve help so I'll just let you wander around lost in your mistaken notion endlessly embarrassing yourself. It does provide entertainment.

As for SAAC, I'll let them defend themselves should they choose to do so, however, if you could help us here. Please point us to another more recognized authoritative organization on the subject of Shelby Cobras? Please point us to another publication that does what the World Registry does and is viewed as a more authoritative text.


Dealing briefly and specifically with your statements about SAAC's "loose standards" and what they do and what they consider an "original" car I am now trying to figure out whether your issue is ignorance or beyond ignorance. You obviously don't own a World Registry or haven't read it or lack to the ability to grasp whats in there. Lets just politely say your statements about SAAC and the Registry are as skewed as your little effort to hand the majority of the credit to AC for the genesis, development and existence of the Cobra. You Brits taxed us without representation, got your asses kicked by a fledgling army, came back in 1812 burned our White House and got your arses kicked again, yet we broke the stalemate for you in WWI, saved your asses in WWII but you guys still can't give the proper credit due to an American who developed a car from a company who was as busy making invalid coaches and wheel chairs as they were cars into a Ferrari beater on the world stage? You have to try and steal the lion's share of the credit for the Shelby Cobra too. That's just not cricket.

Say didn't you guys have to get permission from Shelby to use that silly "Cobra" name name on that COB version of what he had developed for you for your AC "Cobra"? Yeah, I think so. Ouch again. Why didn't you guys just call the Euro version the "AC Super Ace" or something else instead of having to deal with that cranky Texan?

[Dimis]

Evans right to claim he does have a SHELBY.

If not a shelby, then what?


In my mind, he could answer: Yes, It's both! A REAL SHELBY KIT CAR!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Evans right to claim he does have a SHELBY.

If not a shelby, then what?


In my mind, he could answer: Yes, It's both! A REAL SHELBY KIT CAR!

True. I also have a genuine Shelby Cobra which is a genuine Cobra. Legally and factually. Lets not be silly.

I'm sure in your mind that answer would be fine but not in mine. Actually, I couldn't and wouldn't answer that way at all as that would be misleading and is inherently inconsistent. Joe Public just wants to know if it's a "fake" or "tribute" Shelby Cobra. I just tell people what what it is as I've indicated above. See post #140 second paragraph. Thats all it takes as noted.

Again, the Registry deals with this issue very effectively and logically taking into consideration current common day usage, understanding and meaning of these terms.

Thanks for the suggestion though. I know you mean well.

If we are hung up on "kit" the original series was a the Superformance kit of its day. Ponder that one.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

,,, Joe Public just wants to know if it's a "fake" or "tribute" Shelby Cobra ,,,

Wrong again, Joe Public wants to know if it's a Fake or Original 60's Cobra. You just can't help yourself from spinning the BS can you

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Wrong again, Joe Public wants to know if it's a Fake or Original 60's Cobra. You just can't help yourself from spinning the BS can you

Agreed. Joe Public wants to know if its an original Cobra when he asks the question. No doubt. In every case I've experienced they are in awe to find out it is a genuine Shelby Cobra of the current series and the photo session and Iphone videos begin.

There is no doubt based on your previous nefarious efforts to spin history and facts you would consider actual facts BS. Not surprising.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

True.

Ahhh...Sigh... You could have, nay, should have stopped there...

But you continued... Sigh...

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Lets not be silly.

Yes, lets...


Evan, every time you go down this path you remind me of a T-rex, trying to make a bed. It makes for a great laugh

[twobjshelbys]

I knew I shouldn't have opened this topic. There wasn't anything new when it was brought up in 2011 and there isn't anything new now.

But the one who keeps kicking old topics seems like the novice hiker in the Grand Canyon that goes off trail to kick a rattle snake to see if it will rattle its tail.

[Joe's Garage]

How a good idea in the beginning got totally corrupted by membership, money and greed. Translation provided free of charge in bold red, more paying members equals more money, pretty obvious why the World Registry is such a train wreck today.

SAAC was originally set up to cater to the cars Carroll Shelby created and raced — Cobras, GT350s, GT500s and Ford GTs — but since its inception the club has broadened its parameters to accept virtually all high performance Ford-powered cars including Tigers, Mangustas and Panteras, Boss 302, 351 and 429 Mustangs, AC Mk IVs, Cobra 4000s, Mustangs of every year including the latest generation of Shelby GTs and GT500s, Griffiths, Italias, Galaxies, Fairlanes, Comets and yes—even Cobra kit cars (can you say $$ CHA-CHING!) While SAAC does not accord “equal” status to all these other vehicles, it nonetheless welcomes them (and their owners) into the club. The reason for this is simple: SAAC has no ownership requirements, so in that sense everyone is welcome to participate. Many members own more than one hobby car and while that first car is usually a Cobra or a Shelby, often the second vehicle is some other Ford performance car. So it is the membership which has actually broadened the club’s scope and determined what cars are accepted at club events (no thanks, I can get that experience cruising a Walmart parking lot)
About SAAC | SAAC HQ

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

How a good idea in the beginning got totally corrupted by membership, money and greed. Translation provided free of charge in bold red, more paying members equals more money, pretty obvious why the World Registry is such a train wreck today.

SAAC was originally set up to cater to the cars Carroll Shelby created and raced — Cobras, GT350s, GT500s and Ford GTs — but since its inception the club has broadened its parameters to accept virtually all high performance Ford-powered cars including Tigers, Mangustas and Panteras, Boss 302, 351 and 429 Mustangs, AC Mk IVs, Cobra 4000s, Mustangs of every year including the latest generation of Shelby GTs and GT500s, Griffiths, Italias, Galaxies, Fairlanes, Comets and yes—even Cobra kit cars (can you say $$ CHA-CHING!) While SAAC does not accord “equal” status to all these other vehicles, it nonetheless welcomes them (and their owners) into the club. The reason for this is simple: SAAC has no ownership requirements, so in that sense everyone is welcome to participate. Many members own more than one hobby car and while that first car is usually a Cobra or a Shelby, often the second vehicle is some other Ford performance car. So it is the membership which has actually broadened the club’s scope and determined what cars are accepted at club events (no thanks, I can get that experience cruising a Walmart parking lot)
About SAAC | SAAC HQ

You're confusing what cars they welcome at SAAC events and what cars they include in the registry. Read it again.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Al G

You're confusing what cars they welcome at SAAC events and what cars they include in the registry. Read it again.

No, I got it the first time $$ CHA-CHING! They include in the registry "virtually all high performance Ford-powered cars including Tigers, Mangustas and Panteras, Boss 302, 351 and 429 Mustangs, AC Mk IVs, Cobra 4000s, Mustangs of every year including the latest generation of Shelby GTs and GT500s, Griffiths, Italias, Galaxies, Fairlanes, Comets and yes—even Cobra kit cars".

What a joke