Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Trevor Legate

I'm still trying to figure out how anyone can build seriously expensive replicas of circa 40+ cars that never existed? That takes smoke and a lot of mirrors.

......

Bullseye.

Moreover, I don't believe these cars will be well received by SAAC or the Cobra community across the board due to their use of the 3000 series vins. I think this will affect their desireability and value including the hit and miss nature of where you may be able to register the things.

[fordracing65]

My uncle read the story today somewhere and told me they are making 3000 series Cobras that have been locked away for years... He bought it hook line and sinker, and he actually has a little knowledge of cars, think of how many buy these don't...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Bullseye.

Moreover, I don't believe these cars will be well received by SAAC or the Cobra community across the board due to their use of the 3000 series vins.

I'm not so sure of that at all. There may be a few owners of original 1960's CSX3000 cars, who might welcome it. Why? Those first few Resurrection Cobras could be stuffed with lots of OEM parts. Why not buy the Resurrection Cobra to help restore your real original 1960's 3000 Cobra? Then get a bunch of run-of-the-mill parts from Shelby or Kirkham to put the Resurrection Cobra back together and then dump it on the market. Sure you would lose some money on the deal, but then you would use those OEM parts to restore you're genuine 1960's Cobra. Consider the cost difference on the buy and sell of the Resurrection Cobra as a portion of your restoration cost.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm not so sure of that at all. There may be a few owners of original 1960's CSX3000 cars, who might welcome it. Why? Those first few Resurrection Cobras could be stuffed with lots of OEM parts. Why not buy the Resurrection Cobra to help restore your real original 1960's 3000 Cobra? Then get a bunch of run-of-the-mill parts from Shelby or Kirkham to put the Resurrection Cobra back together and then dump it on the market. Sure you would lose some money on the deal, but then you would use those OEM parts to restore you're genuine 1960's Cobra. Consider the cost difference on the buy and sell of the Resurrection Cobra as a portion of your restoration cost.

That is exactly what my mom said, and you know MOM's know best...

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm not so sure of that at all. There may be a few owners of original 1960's CSX3000 cars, who might welcome it. Why? Those first few Resurrection Cobras could be stuffed with lots of OEM parts. Why not buy the Resurrection Cobra to help restore your real original 1960's 3000 Cobra? Then get a bunch of run-of-the-mill parts from Shelby or Kirkham to put the Resurrection Cobra back together and then dump it on the market. Sure you would lose some money on the deal, but then you would use those OEM parts to restore you're genuine 1960's Cobra. Consider the cost difference on the buy and sell of the Resurrection Cobra as a portion of your restoration cost.

Hmmmm, let me see if I have this theory down pat. Soooo, owners of originals that are already "original" and may be missing a few items will spend $500,000.00 + dollars to buy one of the new "Completion" car just to cannibalize it for some parts and then hope to get back their purchase price and resell the car minus the original parts they cannibalized?

Then do they pass on the original bill of sale and build sheet or disclose the "missing" parts? If they don't disclose the parts it's fraud. Not many want to expose themselves to that. If they do disclose the missing parts then what is the car worth now? Also, since all the cars will apparently differ in the amount of original parts they carry, which car do they buy?

If This type of game starts to occur it will kill the value of these cars as no one will want to pay "big" $$$ for them never knowing if the car they are buying has been "raped" of its original list of parts. I would certainly approach such cars with caution if this type of shenanigans starts to take place.

Also, in most scenarios parts are worth sold more sold separately than as an entire vehicle when parted out. Why not sell the entire stash if it really exists and to whatever extent it exists separately item by item? Likely would bring far more in the end and then sell the CSX 3000 chassis separately to be completed as CSX 3XXX with a suffix like "H" for "historic" stamped onto each chassis and completed by Kirkham or McClusky to competition specs (not SC) that would clearly identify what they were and remove the objectionable issue of having them purpost to be part of a series they are not.

If the original run were completed they would not be SCs. Historically, had they been completed to the 100 needed they would have been comp spec.

Also, while I don't doubt DeBeneste was friendly with Carroll Shelby and if was DeBeneste that "ended" up with this "stash of parts" which the world is just now finding out existed raises another fertile ground for some real questions.

If Carroll had these parts he supposedly would have had them for many years. No?

I have never heard or read about this stash before. Been around Cobras for 20+ years and have participated on numerous forums dedicated to Shelbys and Cobras. Never heard anyone speak of it. Am I missing something? If so please enlighten me.

The current Registry doesn't mention such a stash. At least that I was able to find. I don't know if previous Registries did.

Asked a builder of a well known and very respected replica company and a restorer of originals and very knowledgeable regarding Cobras if they ever heard about this stash. Nope.

Carroll was very close friends with McClusky and Lynn Park. Why didn't one of those two end up with the parts if he "sold" them. Why not a family member?

If this secret mountain of "Shelby gold" existed I am incredulous that it remained such a secret likely from the 60's and all of a sudden the announcement is made in 2015 and "pow" the world is in awe. Really?

Why wasn't the announcement made back in the time frame with the previous Completion series was being ginned up? Carroll never mentioned such an original stash of "parts" as I recall. Again enlighten me if I a wrong. All he mentioned was the existence of 1965 Chassis "he found out back" then later said after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar that he "was just misunderstood" clarifying only that they are "true to spec" 1965 chassis built by McClusky. He had the perfect chance to say "he what I meant was these are true to spec 1965 chassis to be adorned with vintage original parts and components making them true 1965 cars". He didn't even when he as in a jam with the State of Californication back peddling fast trying to avoid criminal issues. If ever there was a time to wheel out this stash that was the time.

The article at the top of this thread and the other article said he wanted the project completed "after his death". Really? Think about that. Make sense? Ah, no.

The pieces of this puzzle just don't seem to fit right to me.

Just say'n.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Hmmmm, let me see if I have this theory down pat. Soooo, owners of originals that are already "original" and may be missing a few items will spend $500,000.00 + dollars to buy one of the new "Completion" car just to cannibalize it for some parts and then hope to get back their purchase price and resell the car minus the original parts they cannibalized?

Then do they pass on the original bill of sale and build sheet or disclose the "missing" parts? If they don't disclose the parts it's fraud. Not many want to expose themselves to that. If they do disclose the missing parts then what is the car worth now? Also, since all the cars will apparently differ in the amount of original parts they carry, which car do they buy?

If This type of game starts to occur it will kill the value of these cars as no one will want to pay "big" $$$ for them never knowing if the car they are buying has been "raped" of its original list of parts. I would certainly approach such cars with caution if this type of shenanigans starts to take place.

Also, in most scenarios parts are worth sold more sold separately than as an entire vehicle when parted out. Why not sell the entire stash if it really exists and to whatever extent it exists separately item by item? Likely would bring far more in the end and then sell the CSX 3000 chassis separately to be completed as CSX 3XXX with a suffix like "H" for "historic" stamped onto each chassis and completed by Kirkham or McClusky to competition specs (not SC) that would clearly identify what they were and remove the objectionable issue of having them purpost to be part of a series they are not.

If the original run were completed they would not be SCs. Historically, had they been completed to the 100 needed they would have been comp spec.

Also, while I don't doubt DeBeneste was friendly with Carroll Shelby and if was DeBeneste that "ended" up with this "stash of parts" which the world is just now finding out existed raises another fertile ground for some real questions.

If Carroll had these parts he supposedly would have had them for many years. No?

I have never heard or read about this stash before. Been around Cobras for 20+ years and have participated on numerous forums dedicated to Shelbys and Cobras. Never heard anyone speak of it. Am I missing something? If so please enlighten me.

The current Registry doesn't mention such a stash. At least that I was able to find. I don't know if previous Registries did.

Asked a builder of a well known and very respected replica company and a restorer of originals and very knowledgeable regarding Cobras if they ever heard about this stash. Nope.

Carroll was very close friends with McClusky and Lynn Park. Why didn't one of those two end up with the parts if he "sold" them. Why not a family member?

If this secret mountain of "Shelby gold" existed I am incredulous that it remained such a secret likely from the 60's and all of a sudden the announcement is made in 2015 and "pow" the world is in awe. Really?

Why wasn't the announcement made back in the time frame with the previous Completion series was being ginned up? Carroll never mentioned such an original stash of "parts" as I recall. Again enlighten me if I a wrong. All he mentioned was the existence of 1965 Chassis "he found out back" then later said after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar that he "was just misunderstood" clarifying only that they are "true to spec" 1965 chassis built by McClusky. He had the perfect chance to say "he what I meant was these are true to spec 1965 chassis to be adorned with vintage original parts and components making them true 1965 cars". He didn't even when he as in a jam with the State of Californication back peddling fast trying to avoid criminal issues. If ever there was a time to wheel out this stash that was the time.

The article at the top of this thread and the other article said he wanted the project completed "after his death". Really? Think about that. Make sense? Ah, no.

The pieces of this puzzle just don't seem to fit right to me.

Just say'n.

So, are you telling me that every original '60's series car is restored or nearly restored and doesn't need a bunch of OEM parts to start/finish the owner's restoration? This parts stash is a treasure trove of OEM parts. A very wealthy owner, someone who owns 30-40 rare vintage cars in his or her collection, buys the Resurrection Cobra, takes the rare unobtainium parts he or she needs from it and then resells it. Or keep it. Of course, disclose the fact that "these" specific parts are no longer on the car and sell it. Why not? I can complete the restoration of "my" original '60's 3000 series, which now will win all sorts of awards at the next SAAC Convention and is now worth $3,000,000 or whatever.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Hmmmm, let me see if I have this theory down pat. Soooo, owners of originals that are already "original" and may be missing a few items will spend $500,000.00 + dollars to buy one of the new "Completion" car just to cannibalize it for some parts and then hope to get back their purchase price and resell the car minus the original parts they cannibalized?

Then do they pass on the original bill of sale and build sheet or disclose the "missing" parts? If they don't disclose the parts it's fraud. Not many want to expose themselves to that. If they do disclose the missing parts then what is the car worth now? Also, since all the cars will apparently differ in the amount of original parts they carry, which car do they buy?

If This type of game starts to occur it will kill the value of these cars as no one will want to pay "big" $$$ for them never knowing if the car they are buying has been "raped" of its original list of parts. I would certainly approach such cars with caution if this type of shenanigans starts to take place.

Also, in most scenarios parts are worth sold more sold separately than as an entire vehicle when parted out. Why not sell the entire stash if it really exists and to whatever extent it exists separately item by item? Likely would bring far more in the end and then sell the CSX 3000 chassis separately to be completed as CSX 3XXX with a suffix like "H" for "historic" stamped onto each chassis and completed by Kirkham or McClusky to competition specs (not SC) that would clearly identify what they were and remove the objectionable issue of having them purpost to be part of a series they are not.

If the original run were completed they would not be SCs. Historically, had they been completed to the 100 needed they would have been comp spec.

Also, while I don't doubt DeBeneste was friendly with Carroll Shelby and if was DeBeneste that "ended" up with this "stash of parts" which the world is just now finding out existed raises another fertile ground for some real questions.

If Carroll had these parts he supposedly would have had them for many years. No?

I have never heard or read about this stash before. Been around Cobras for 20+ years and have participated on numerous forums dedicated to Shelbys and Cobras. Never heard anyone speak of it. Am I missing something? If so please enlighten me.

The current Registry doesn't mention such a stash. At least that I was able to find. I don't know if previous Registries did.

Asked a builder of a well known and very respected replica company and a restorer of originals and very knowledgeable regarding Cobras if they ever heard about this stash. Nope.

Carroll was very close friends with McClusky and Lynn Park. Why didn't one of those two end up with the parts if he "sold" them. Why not a family member?

If this secret mountain of "Shelby gold" existed I am incredulous that it remained such a secret likely from the 60's and all of a sudden the announcement is made in 2015 and "pow" the world is in awe. Really?

Why wasn't the announcement made back in the time frame with the previous Completion series was being ginned up? Carroll never mentioned such an original stash of "parts" as I recall. Again enlighten me if I a wrong. All he mentioned was the existence of 1965 Chassis "he found out back" then later said after getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar that he "was just misunderstood" clarifying only that they are "true to spec" 1965 chassis built by McClusky. He had the perfect chance to say "he what I meant was these are true to spec 1965 chassis to be adorned with vintage original parts and components making them true 1965 cars". He didn't even when he as in a jam with the State of Californication back peddling fast trying to avoid criminal issues. If ever there was a time to wheel out this stash that was the time.

The article at the top of this thread and the other article said he wanted the project completed "after his death". Really? Think about that. Make sense? Ah, no.

The pieces of this puzzle just don't seem to fit right to me.

Just say'n.

Hmm, a stash of unobtainable parts that nobody has heard of.

Did you see the Spring 2013 SAAC magazine? There is an interesting article about Bob Gingold becoming obsessed with acquiring all kinds of parts rare NOS parts for the restoration of CSX3133 over 39 years.

Here are some interesting quotes:
- "Ten round trips later, Gingold's 3,000 square foot basement and a couple of garages were filled with enough 427 Cobra parts to start a restoration business."
- "He became well known to the Cobra restorers of the day, like Mike McCluskey, Bill Kemper, Geoff Howard and Carter Gette. Most were willing to sell him a couple of what he was looking for but they realized they also needed to maintain an inventory for their own customers."
- "He found the correct bearings at a parts supplier in Paris, France. This bearing did not exist in the U.S. But he did not stop there. He went to the original factory in England and bought whatever inventory they still had."
- "For the last trip he took the passenger and rear seat out of his car and filled it with 120 complete pumps in the original boxes. He also got whatever odd parts were left over, plus two unique chromed pumps that were assembled for display at trade shows."

Do you suppose it is possible that with the restoration of CSX3133 complete that Bob might have sold part of his collection of NOS parts?

[rodneym]

I don't mean to throw us off course but how are real comp cars registered in CA?

[Bernica]

I would look to the likes of Lynn Park for that answer, if there is one.

[kanuck]

You mean just like those who put a kirkham or brand X, aluminum body on a glass 4000 series car.

Dean

PS: AS far as value all they have to do is run one though Barret Jackson, loaded with shill bidders and with the whole dog and pony show, and run up the price just like they have done so many times before. and voila instant faux value.

[twobjshelbys]

I saw one of CS's warehouses in 2009. Frames were there. Have photos.

[razerwire]

Private people don't talk about their stash. If you need a part to finish your early cobra they will most likely give it to you, but none of it is for sale. I hope the kids know the value and make the most of stash when passed to them.

[Dimis]

But rodknock if you reuse them they're no longer NOS, just 2nd hand, old, used pieces off (insert apt wording depending on your belief here...). lol

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

But rodknock if you reuse them they're no longer NOS, just 2nd hand, old, used pieces off (insert apt wording depending on your belief here...). lol

You're just being obtuse.

The Resurrection Cobras will have maybe 10 miles on them. The NOS OEM parts will look new.

As I said, it's definitely within the realm of possibilities assuming the parts are unobtainium and the 1960's CSX3000 owner has lots of dinero and needs parts for the restoration.

[Jamo]

To be clear and to make sure you understand where I'm coming from. Over the past year, a few folks have come on, celebrities in their own minds, playing games with their identities and sharing little to allow members here to weigh their credibility. Many threads were closed.

I have no patience whatsoever for any of that anymore...and I truly could care less who the person is.

So, no games, no charades. That's it...no multiple tries either.

Your ID has already been alluded to in this thread, so there's no reason to be subtle.

I personally think you would add to information here that members would appreciate, but I'm not going to sit here and monitor 24/7...these days, I stop the problems before they start. If you think I'm being unfair...oh well, I can live with that.

[Jamo]

For the friend of this person...don't bore me with a PM...talk to the poster about how to reemerge here. It's just a one day suspension...a time out if you will. The poster's posts (all two dozen of them over half a decade) indicate this same hide and seek methodology. Reminds me of the robber baron's offspring from last year that was the most interesting man in the world.

No patience.

[Jamo]

Bill...that's not cool...don't do that.

[mrmustang]

Meant without malice (hence the inclusion of Road Serpents)

Originally Posted by Jamo

Bill...that's not cool...don't do that.

So noted

[feadam]

David
You said these are using cast iron center sections, are they from Larry Millers collection. A few years ago I went to the Shelby museum in Boulder Co and they had a pallet full of them. Asked if I could buy one and they told me a lot of the collectable parts are Millers.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by feadam

David
You said these are using cast iron center sections, are they from Larry Millers collection. A few years ago I went to the Shelby museum in Boulder Co and they had a pallet full of them. Asked if I could buy one and they told me a lot of the collectable parts are Millers.

DenBeste has a WALL of finished, date coded engines sitting on a shelf. I have two of them here.

Larry has an enormous stash of parts as well. I don't think any of it has been sold off yet. They did walk away from the Miller Motorsports track a couple of weeks ago, however.

David