Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[1ntCobra]

Has any pricing been announced yet?

It would be interesting to see how that plays into this discussion. When the completion cars first came around, they were 500K. Presumably they will be more now. But how much? Lets just take a wild guess and say 1M this time. What is that in relation to the price of buying an original SC? If the price is similar, why not just buy an original instead?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Has any pricing been announced yet?

It would be interesting to see how that plays into this discussion. When the completion cars first came around, they were 500K. Presumably they will be more now. But how much? Lets just take a wild guess and say 1M this time. What is that in relation to the price of buying an original SC? If the price is similar, why not just buy an original instead?

I think the argument here is that when you're very wealthy and you can buy virtually whatever you want, price is unimportant. The cars can't be driven on public roads, so people will just buy it and let it sit or hang somewhere.

Also, I doubt pricing can be announced, because each car will likely be different in terms of the very rare and expensive OEM parts. As the OEM parts inventory dwindles and more repro parts are utilized, theoretically, the cars should become cheaper. However, I'd expect price increases over time, just because the cost of labor and materials increase.

[Bernica]

Maybe send one through the right auction house with a reserve and see what the market will say?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I think the argument here is that when you're very wealthy and you can buy virtually whatever you want, price is unimportant. The cars can't be driven on public roads, so people will just buy it and let it sit or hang somewhere.

Also, I doubt pricing can be announced, because each car will likely be different in terms of the very rare and expensive OEM parts. As the OEM parts inventory dwindles and more repro parts are utilized, theoretically, the cars should become cheaper. However, I'd expect price increases over time, just because the cost of labor and materials increase.

Though I really don't know (I haven't asked Bill or Joe pricing) I suspect we have a winner. It wouldn't surprise me if they were sold privately.

David

[rodneym]

Rod,
You're too hung up on "can't be driven on public roads".
I've seen my fair share of race cars on the streets, even in CA.
I'm not saying it could be done legally...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Rod,
You're too hung up on "can't be driven on public roads".
I've seen my fair share of race cars on the streets, even in CA.
I'm not saying it could be done legally...

Yep, you're correct. Anyone that drives an uninsured unregistered vehicle on a public road is a moron.

There are people who think I do some nutty stuff, but it's legal and I can't hurt others.

I guess I'm a law abiding citizen and worry about the ramifications of liability, if one were to hit someone or something, since insurance would only cover driving on non-public roads. And then there's always potential confiscation and/or penalties, court time, etc., if caught.

[rodneym]

Rod,
It's my belief that a couple of these Cobras will be falsely registered and underinsured. But they're wealthy, so who cares? They don't, and I don't.
And speaking of liability...If a wealthy person in a falsely registered, underinsured (likely to have legal issues with a claim) race car hits you, you'd have a nice settlement.

[Bernica]

I have personally seen guys drive their full race cars all over the place on public roads at the Pebble Beach Concours. And I mean P1 LeMans cars and the likes. During that weekend, it seems that the cops just sort of look the other way. Yes, those owners could care less...

I agree that for the average Joe, the liability of driving something built for race only and unregistered on the road leaves you wide open to losing everything.
Any insurance you might have would simply tell you that you're on your own.

And in an accident, you would be facing gross negligence of motor vehicle code, among probably many other bad things including possible loss of the vehicle. And God forbid you hurt someone!

[Phill Pollard]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I have personally seen guys drive their full race cars all over the place on public roads at the Pebble Beach Concours. And I mean P1 LeMans cars and the likes. During that weekend, it seems that the cops just sort of look the other way. Yes, those owners could care less...

FWIW, Pebble Beach is all privately owned, including the roads. That's why the cops don't mess with you during the Concours within the gates of Pebble.

Drive out the gate to Carmel or PG and watch the local's go nuts with a ticket book!


Phill

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

It's my belief that a couple of these Cobras will be falsely registered and underinsured. But they're wealthy, so who cares? They don't, and I don't.

I care. We have laws for a reason. And with social media and cell phone cameras, these wealthy people with their falsely registered and underinsured "Resurrection" Cobras will be all over the Internet and exposed for their stupidity. Or at least I hope.

Not that it had anything to do with insurance liability, but Paul Walker died in a crash as a passenger in a Porsche Carrera GT. These Cobras are stupid fast and bad things can happen to stupid people in stupid fast cars. It doesn't make alot of sense to me.

Originally Posted by rodneym

And speaking of liability...If a wealthy person in a falsely registered, underinsured (likely to have legal issues with a claim) race car hits you, you'd have a nice settlement.

Maybe, but I'd prefer NOT to be a wealthy quadriplegic. I'd rather be me and healthy.

[rodneym]

Rod,
Who are we kidding? Our Cobras are at least every bit a race car as these coming down the pike.
It is us, through SB100, who are the benificiaries. If I bought a Resurrection Cobra and couldn't register it, I'd be pissed, and with good reason.
We can drive ours. A Resurrection owner can't. Same car. And you're up in arms?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Rod,
Who are we kidding? Our Cobras are at least every bit a race car as these coming down the pike.
It is us, through SB100, who are the benificiaries. If I bought a Resurrection Cobra and couldn't register it, I'd be pissed, and with good reason.
We can drive ours. A Resurrection owner can't. Same car. And you're up in arms?

But mine is registered, legal, fully insured and I also don't drive it. The best of all worlds.

Yes, the two cars (our Kirkham's and the "Resurrection" Shelby Cobra) are roughly in the same ball park, though with twin Paxton's, your Kirkham is on a different Kirkham "plane" than my basic "nuts and bolts" Kirkham. But we're legal, fully insured and registered. Not sure what your point is.

I just think, if the very wealthy owner of a "Resurrection" Cobra wants to take the risk of driving his or her illegal, unregistered, uninsured uber expensive car on a public road, then maybe he or she might be willing to take additional risks (e.g., excessive speed, burnouts, donuts, side shows ), that you or I wouldn't.

Anyway, I'm not "up in arms." As I said earlier, I'd be at least mildly upset, if I were an owner of a 1960's CSX. And it seems that Evan, as an owner of one of the finest CSX4000's on the planet, is at least "tweaked" about Shelby calling them "completion" Cobras and giving them the designation of CSX 3000's. Me, I'm OK.

[ChiChris]

Jaguars new/old cars are completely different from said Cobras.

[fordracing65]

Did I hear $500k to $1million for these cars..., I guess if you have money who cares...

[REAL 1]

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

1. There is a mountain of rare NOS Cobra parts consisting of Shelby "gold" and unobtainium treasure that will is expected to add tremendous value to this new "completion" car.

2. This mountain of Shelby "gold" is owned privately.

3. There has been no cataloging/inventory of these "precocious" parts or tagging them in any way. No documentation of them in the slightest by any recognized expert certifying or verifying the genuiness of what's on that inventory list and just how many of each exist.

4. These "Completion" cars are being sold privately or by the Shelby Trust? SAI is not involved in the sale? Kirkham is completing and sending to DeBeneste to finalize? Hell, if it's a complete car and I can't drive it anyway I want it sold to me through SAI just like in 1965 not DeBeneste or the Trust. The Trust or DeBeneste wasn't selling Cobras in 1965. Were they?

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

6. The "Completion" Cobras is supposedly fitted with the "holy grail" of original NOS parts but there is not one photo, not one document evidencing the build, not one list or manifest of parts / pieces, nuts and bolts put into the car and taken from the master log or inventory. Do I have one nut that is an original nut or two? Are all the lines original or just the brake lines? How many original clamps are in the car? Do I have that original dip stick? or Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other? What about my half shafts? Do I have one original or two? Where is my parts build list?

7. This completion car is sent back to Debeneste to "complete" yet he paints it an off color of Guardsman Blue? What happened to originality? Yet we have a crowd standing around with glazed eyes gawking at this car without one shred of proof as to what's in it.

8. What we have here is a Continuation Series Shelby stuffed with a lot of original parts and accessories. That's it. How many and which parts and pieces are original? ...I guess we will just have to take DeBeneste's word for it.

9. Seems like the "Completion" Cobras will vary in well...completeness. Hell, CSX 4206 is likely to just as "Complete" as some of the completion series. However, who will know since there is no master inventory or tracking system of these parts and into what cars they go.

10. No matter how they try my bet is that none of these "completion" Cobras will ever be 100% complete. Were original rivets used, are all the nuts, bolts and screws original too? How about diff coolers? were they used? Are they original? Fuel pumps? SWs or something else...the list is extensive as we all know. Fatally, we already know the Chassis is not original or the body.

CSX3000 Vins belong to chassis built in 1960s not new chassis and bodies onto which old parts are bolted. This a canard of the highest order. Apocryphal. Seems to me they are going to be selling "Air cars" with CSX 3000 vins. What documentation will be provided as to what is original and what's not that was bolted to the car for which they likely will want over $500,000.00 for.

Better their money than mine.

As they say on Shark tank....I'm out.

If they want to build historically dead nuts accurate Cobras that's great and a cool thing but they should not be labeled completion Cobras. A more appropriate name would be CSX 4000H for "Historic"

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? After all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

I asked same question some time ago on this thread. Look back and see response.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

Do I have a Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other?

Answer: There will be no rearview mirror installed, because "What's a behind me is not important!"

Speaking of which, I wonder when the Shelby Cobra "Gumball Rally" Limited Edition will be coming out? Anyone?

Seriously, I should get paid for these ideas.

[David Kirkham]

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Alas, I doubt (but don't know) bolt counters are the target clientele. I'm sure they will personally work out the details to everyone's satisfaction and then go from there.

Bill's word is gold. I have done, and continue to do, large deals on nothing more than a phone call or a handshake.

David


ps. Bill painted the car the proper/original color (which I personally don't like but was right in this instance). Perhaps I wasn't clear in my post. It's Mike who alters colors when customers request it.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Evan,

I admire lawyers like you who are careful to get every nut, bolt, and screw correct. I truly do. That's why you pay for good counsel. I have used good lawyers and they are invaluable. I've also had the unfortunate experience of running into a few (well, more than a few) bad ones. The ones who nail down all the details are invaluable.

Ditto!

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Bill's word is gold. I have done, and continue to do, large deals on nothing more than a phone call or a handshake.

I did this once, went in to bat for them too... Boy, was that an error in judgement on my part.

I trust though that your evaluation of character is better than mine.


Just a thought, borrowing from Evan's logic (If I may Evan) - If all these original NOS parts are bound to a 1967 Volkswagen beetle chassis, with a cobra body would they more, or less original?


Further, while we are on the subject of their name and place in history... Actively calling them CSX3000s seems almost purposefully misleading to me... and that leaves a distaste that has me cynical and skeptical about the entire project/operation, despite the cool factor of all those historic bits and pieces.