Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[REAL 1]

Here is my criticism and further issues with these cars and this project.

Let me see if I have this straight shall we?

1. There is a mountain of rare NOS Cobra parts consisting of Shelby "gold" and unobtainium treasure that will or is expected to add tremendous value to this new "completion" car series.

2. This mountain of Shelby "gold" is owned privately.

3. As I understand there has been absolutely no cataloging/inventory of these "precocious" parts or tagging them in any way. Is there any documentation of them in the slightest by any recognized expert certifying or verifying the genuiness of what's on that inventory list and just how many of each exist? Please enlighten me on this.

4. These "Completion" Cobras I understand now are being sold privately or by the Shelby Trust. Is this accurate? SAI is not involved in the sale? Kirkham is completing and sending to DeBeneste to finalize? Hell, if it's a complete car and I can't drive it anyway I want it sold to me through SAI just like in 1965 not DeBeneste or the Trust. The Trust or DeBeneste wasn't selling Cobras in 1965. Were they?

5. Just who is doing the stamping on the chassis? Kirkham or DeBeneste on behalf of SAI or are they stamped at SAI? When are they stamped? Are they stamped after all the so called pieces are bolted on or have they been set aside and pre-stamped?

6. The "Completion" Cobras are supposedly to be fitted with the "holy grail" of original NOS parts but there is not one photo that we have seen of the build, not one document evidencing the build of the first one. Not one list or manifest of parts / pieces, nuts and bolts put into the car and taken from the master log or inventory that we know of. Does this first car have one nut that is an original nut or two? What will future cars have? Are all the lines original or just the brake lines? What will future cars have? How many original clamps are in the first car? How many will future cars have? Do I have that original dip stick? Show me where it came from the original inventory or a someone signing off and takng responsibility to verify what I have is original parts. Is that a Lucas rearview or is it a repro or other? Proof please. What about my half shafts? Do I have one original or two after that first car? Where is my parts build list? Very simply, where is the inventory of parts drawn from and build sheet?

7. This first completion car is sent back to Debeneste to "complete" yet he paints it an off color of Guardsman Blue? Yikes. What happened to originality? Despite all the above we have a crowd standing around with glazed eyes gawking at this car without one shred of proof as to what's in it. Sheesh.

8. What we have here is a Continuation Series Shelby stuffed with a lot of original parts and accessories. That's it. Again, how many and which parts and pieces are original? ...I guess we will just have to take DeBeneste's word for it and as to the rest too without that master certified inventory and build sheet.

9. Seems like the "Completion" Cobras will vary in well...completeness too. Hell, CSX 4206 is likely to just as "Complete" as some of the completion series Cobras. However, who will know unless there is a master inventory or tracking system of these parts and into what cars they go.

10. No matter how they try my bet is that none of these "completion" Cobras will ever be 100% complete. Were original rivets used, are all the nuts, bolts and screws original too? How about diff coolers? were they used? Are they original? Fuel pumps? SWs or something else, all the correct tags and lables used, correct horn etc, etc......the list is extensive as we all know but.... fatally we already know the Chassis is not original or the body.

CSX3000 Vins belong to chassis built in 1960s not new chassis and bodies onto which old parts are bolted. Period. This is IMHO is a canard of the highest order. Apocryphal. Seems to me they are going to be selling "Air cars" with CSX 3000 vins for which they likely will want over $500,000.00 for.

Better their money than mine.

As they say on Shark tank....I'm out.

If they want to build historically dead nuts accurate Cobras that's great and a cool thing but they should not be labeled "completion" Cobras. A more appropriate name would be CSX ""4000H" for "Historic"

[Bernica]

What I think you are looking for Evan is "facts in evidence", right?
I'm no lawyer but I hear it from lawyers all the time!

[Jamo]

Evan...only you could figure out a way to have a duplicate post with someone else's post in between them.

[RodKnock]

Just checked, next year in 2016 will be the 40th Anniversary of the movie's (Gumball Rally) release (1976).

It's golden. I'm lining up already to buy one. Maybe we can get Gary Busey to come to the unveiling?

Unfortunately, Michael Sarrazin and Raul Julia can't be there.

[Bernica]

The best lawyers I have had were the biggest PIA and relentless! Rode me like a rented mule 24/7 and as David says...invaluable!

[REAL 1]

David: Please don't take my criticisms as directed at you or Kirkham. They are not. Whoever's project this is and is selling them is responsible in my book to inventory the valuable items being sold and provide build sheets. While I am not arguing or questioning whether Bill's word is good or not, if I am spending upwards of $500,000.00 for what is supposed to be in these cars I want more than a handshake and a smile.

I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars.

It would also be appreciated if the build sheet of one of these cars that is finished as close to original spec as is possible with what is available could be supplied to us on this site. It would likely be appreciated by all of us who value and appreciate historical accuracy and are always striving to improve what we have to that level. It would be a valuable reference tool cost nothing to provide it to us here provided it is ever created if it does not already exist for this project.

[Nedsel]

[quote=REAL 1;1349110]

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

You may want to read over the press release again. The one I saw did not use the term "completion" as had been used previously, but instead used the term "competition." Unless there was a second press release, that's what the DenBeste group is calling these new cars.

And as for the few original parts that they hope to magically convince buyers there are enough of for every car, did you mean to label them "precocious" i.e. the human quality of exhibiting great ability at an early age, or simply "precious" i.e. of great value?

For what it's worth, I, too, disagree with the premise of calling these CSX 3000-series Cobras. They simply aren't.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

You may want to read over the press release again. The one I saw did not use the term "completion" as had been used previously, but instead used the term "competition." Unless there was a second press release, that's what the DenBeste group is calling these new cars.

And as for the few original parts that they hope to magically convince buyers there are enough of for every car, did you mean to label them "precocious" i.e. the human quality of exhibiting great ability at an early age, or simply "precious" i.e. of great value?

For what it's worth, I, too, disagree with the premise of calling these CSX 3000-series Cobras. They simply aren't.

I was precocious. The original rare parts are precious. My bad.

I thought they were calling them "completion". If it's "competition" are they accurate to that configuration? I thought they were SC configurations?...

[Nedsel]

Accurate? Who knows. Here's some copy from their press release; you decide what's accurate. And where did the idea of Guardsman Blue come from? They say it's LeMans Blue, which was not a 60's color, even though they boast of period-correct details.

" The first of the 'Sanction II' 427 Competition Cobra's to be completed (CSX3065) is a spectacular 1965 Shelby Cobra 427 aluminum body clad in Le Mans Blue paint with Wimbledon White Le Mans stripes and black interior. The period correct details are carried throughout the vehicle from the engine to the race ready suspension. Each of the 34 remaining 'Sanction II' 427 Cobras come with an MSO signed by Carroll Shelby listing it as a 1965 Shelby Cobra. This series of the Cobra will also be submitted and listed in the Shelby American Automobile Club Registry. Contact DenBeste Motorsports for information on purchasing this limited edition piece of American automotive racing history."

And folks, for what it's worth, the plural of Cobra Is COBRAS. It's not Cobra's!

[David Kirkham]

[quote=Nedsel;1349113]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

You may want to read over the press release again. The one I saw did not use the term "completion" as had been used previously, but instead used the term "competition." Unless there was a second press release, that's what the DenBeste group is calling these new cars.

And as for the few original parts that they hope to magically convince buyers there are enough of for every car, did you mean to label them "precocious" i.e. the human quality of exhibiting great ability at an early age, or simply "precious" i.e. of great value?

For what it's worth, I, too, disagree with the premise of calling these CSX 3000-series Cobras. They simply aren't.

Great to see you jumping in! I would LOVE to go over the build in detail with you to see what we did right and what we did wrong. (Ned knows more about these cars than just about anyone else).

David

[NewYorkGuy]

David,
Is it safe to assume without your company's involvement, Shelby would not have any Cobras to sell, present and future?
What exactly does Shelby manufacture these days?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David: Please don't take my criticisms as directed at you or Kirkham. They are not. Whoever's project this is and is selling them is responsible in my book to inventory the valuable items being sold and provide build sheets. While I am not arguing or questioning whether Bill's word is good or not, if I am spending upwards of $500,000.00 for what is supposed to be in these cars I want more than a handshake and a smile.

I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars.

It would also be appreciated if the build sheet of one of these cars that is finished as close to original spec as is possible with what is available could be supplied to us on this site. It would likely be appreciated by all of us who value and appreciate historical accuracy and are always striving to improve what we have to that level. It would be a valuable reference tool cost nothing to provide it to us here provided it is ever created if it does not already exist for this project.

I certainly don't take any offense at all. What you (and Ned) do is critical to keeping our industry on the up and up (and other industries). All industries need watchdogs (too bad there aren't more of them in politics). I am very serious when I said I dearly appreciate good lawyers (because I have dealt with so many bad ones). Everything you said is exactly what I would expect of my own lawyer.

As a buyer I wouldn't blame you one bit for wanting a detailed list of what you are buying. It is just that in my experience (among these types of buyers) they rarely want one (it does happen, however).

"I still object (for whatever that's worth) to the use of the term "completion series" and using the CSX 3000 vin for these cars."

I actually see both sides of this. Ned's (and Evan's) side is it to keep the history straightforward and matter of fact. It's very, very important you guys are around and naughtiness abounds. Shelby's side is, "Hey these are our numbers and we can do with them what we want." They do have a point.

I'll keep looking for the photos. I probably mislabeled the folder.

EDIT!

I just got off the phone with the guys at DenBeste and they confirmed we did NOT make the car in the press release. The car we made hasn't been painted yet.

David

[4pipes]

Just take a deep breath and relax. It doesn't matter what they're called. Think of them as an accurate scale model at 1:1. I'm sure most of us have some scale model die cast cars. They're beautiful and fun to look at, but you can't drive them. Who cars what people pay for them or how the registry recognizes them.......life is very short, enjoy and drive what you like, these cars will not affect your life in any measurable way.

[LMH]

So we have a name for this series: "Sanction II 427 Cobras".

I don't like calling them 30XX series cars either.
Larry

[Nedsel]

I sent an email to DenBeste a few weeks ago, asking if they knew Shelby had built a CSX 3065 back in the spring of 1997. Never heard back.

[RodKnock]

This news just in...

Late yesterday, around 2:00PM, 12,000 CSBI shares were traded, which ain't much, but when the average 10-day volume is roughly 3,000, quadruple the volume is notable.

Stock is up about $0.02 today.

Bid = $0.18
Ask = $0.20

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

This news just in...

Late yesterday, around 2:00PM, 12,000 CSBI shares were traded, which ain't much, but when the average 10-day volume is roughly 3,000, quadruple the volume is notable.

Stock is up about $0.02 today.

Bid = $0.18
Ask = $0.20

Since May 1 the trades have been:

5-May 4200 @ .16
8-May 15300 @ .18
11-May 1000 @ .18
14-May 1000 @ .19
19-May 12000 @.18
20-May 1000 @.20

The likelihood that these are family held shares is almost nil.

I'd be happy for it to go back to $1.00. But like I said, the paper is prettier.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Since May 1 the trades have been:

5-May 4200 @ .16
8-May 15300 @ .18
11-May 1000 @ .18
14-May 1000 @ .19
19-May 12000 @.18
20-May 1000 @.20

The likelihood that these are family held shares is almost nil.

I'd be happy for it to go back to $1.00. But like I said, the paper is prettier.

As I stated earlier, the stock has increased 33% in the past couple of weeks. I don't know who is selling and buying, but my point is, investors must be seeing positive signs in terms of current and future earnings. I've got a sneaking suspicion that CSBI will see some portion of the income from the "Resurrection" Cobra operation.

And yes, I know the non-profit CS Trust will be selling them. but that doesn't mean anything to me.

[Bernica]

I have 1,000 shares just for fun. Let's see what happens!

[Kit Coyle]

This is a most interesting thread. What seems to be emerging is who has the
bragging rights to the "best" replica Cobra. I suspect the answer may well be
a car, or a series of cars, built by David Kirkham's company that have the
most documented NOS parts on them. An MSO signed by Carroll Shelby and
a CSX3000 serial number is only an added enhancement and is not going to
make the car eligible to compete with original 1960s cars for a trophy at
Pebble Beach. No one will be fooled here...the community is too small and too
well educated.

Accurate replicas are wonderful things and I am thankful for their availability.
CSX2047 was my daily driver for five years back in the late 1960s and it was
a wonderful experience. Now, forty-five years later, I have a nice replica to
enjoy! How lucky to be able to travel back in time and enjoy such a visceral
automobile.