Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Geeez David! Do you go home at night and wonder how you could billet maybe the refrigerator or stove too?

Your god it too small.

I want to billet my house...

David

[kanuck]

Like I said in a prior post, they were 1/2 million when they pulled this stunt 20 some odd years ago so I can only imagine now. will they be nice I am sure they will, but don't kid yourself they will never have the provenance no matter how much money they are, and if you think they will or will over time acquire it, you are just kidding yourself.

Dean

[REAL 1]

They're not "replicas"? Really? Did someone on this form really just say that? Wow!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

They're not "replicas"? Really? Did someone on this form really just say that? Wow!

Yes I'll say it. They're replicas. Not the same company, not the same materials, not the same employees and 50 years after the original run. They're replicas.

[RodKnock]

But these replicas can't be driven on a public road.

[Dimis]

Sniff, sniff...
No thanks! I'll pass...
I'd rather Larry's cobra!

Fwiw. David I'm glad you enjoy history...

[RodKnock]

Completion, resumption, continuation, whatever. Honestly doesn't matter to me. They could find the exact original metallurgical duplicate of the aluminum body with the actual original-1960's Halibrand magnesium wheels and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me.

They're just a "Tru-er Replica."

[LMH]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Completion, resumption, continuation, whatever. Honestly doesn't matter to me. They could find the exact original metallurgical duplicate of the aluminum body with the actual original-1960's Halibrand magnesium wheels and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me.

They're just a "Tru-er Replica."

The bait is on the hook!
Larry

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Completion, resumption, continuation, whatever. Honestly doesn't matter to me. They could find the exact original metallurgical duplicate of the aluminum body with the actual original-1960's Halibrand magnesium wheels and it wouldn't make a bit of difference to me.

They're just a "Tru-er Replica."

Yes, we know you are the "immovable" object.

[NewYorkGuy]

David,
The picture of the chassis frame looks weird. The steel looks old and rusty. Was that a new frame made by McClusky?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

David,
The picture of the chassis frame looks weird. The steel looks old and rusty. Was that a new frame made by McClusky?

Yes, Mike made it. I'm not sure why it was so rusty when we got it (it was only surface rust, not much really). My conjecture is Mike's shop is in Torrance, California and it "fogs" pretty much every morning and makes things damp. Mike is so packed in for space that every morning he moves stuff outside. The fog probably rusted it.

I really didn't care about the rust...I just wanted Mike's chassis to confirm measurements from our other frames we had.

David

[Mark IV]

Frames, you want frames? We got steenkin' frames!
Ah but where were these and when was it?

[mrmustang]

I think I even know the strange man with the funny limp (from walking into something not in that shot) when he took that picture

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Frames, you want frames? We got steenkin' frames!
Ah but where were these and when was it?

Can I play

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

I think I even know the strange man with the funny limp (from walking into something not in that shot) when he took that picture



Can I play

Bill,

I do limp, but not from that. I took that photo.

If you don't win outright you will get as a parting gift the "Home Edition of the Shelby Frame Game!"

[LMH]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Frames, you want frames? We got steenkin' frames!
Ah but where were these and when was it?

Probably not but that looks a lot like Sagebrush (Hi Tech) when they were at the airplane hanger in Casa Grande. Both leaf spring and coil spring frames there. Been there many times but shops tend to look a lot alike on the inside.
Larry

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by LMH

Probably not but that looks a lot like Sagebrush (Hi Tech) when they were at the airplane hanger in Casa Grande. Both leaf spring and coil spring frames there. Been there many times but shops tend to look a lot alike on the inside.
Larry

Nope,

Not Tim G's place.

[JBo]

Jesus, there truer is one born ever minute.......

[Jamo]

No...so far this is a good thread.

[Three Peaks]

The more I read about this new "venture" of SAI, the more torn I am about how to feel about it. There is no doubt having Kirkham involved in the manufacture of these cars will assure the highest quality of build and ability to work with the customer to option these cares in any way money can buy and I mean that in the most sincere sense.

However, from the OP's original point, unless someone can show absolute proof that these chassis were built in the 63-67 time period by AC, had the CSX stamped numbers, and all the other parts were original parts (including the body), I can't see any way these can be considered "completion" cars in any way related to the original production. Other than the fact that they will have many original parts and be detailed as close to perfection as Kirkham hands can make them, these are no more or less than highly optioned continuation cars that will be overpriced and have speculation surround them for as long as Cobras are being discussed.

For the stratospheric pricing we can assume will be charged for these cars, they will never be "original" cars in the sense of the 60's cars. And the fact they are bastard children probably related to the fiasco Shelby was involved in in the 80's/90's? will instill a cloud over there existence.
The fact also that a third party is building them also takes away from their provenance, IMHO, as something represented as "completion" of the original series should be manufactured by the original manufacturer IMO.

Now, having Kirkham build these cars could be part of the plan and have some advantages. Since Shelby is selling the cars, but only supplying the parts they may have a plausible explanation to sell these cars in the same way as rollers are sold and a third party installs the drivetrain (and other options). This may make it possible to register them for the street which would be a huge advantage since there don't seem to be many race series that are well suited to Cobras these days and the only other use for an off road Cobra is as art or window dressing.

I am curious about a few things since I've scratch built my Cobra and am aware of the "shortcomings" of the original style frames and the Cobra Restorer's drawings which were patterned after the originals (and my chassis also built to these drawings, I assume). Since Kirkham has gone to considerable expense and trouble to build symmetrical chassis and bodies, doesn't that mean some modifications will have to be made to their bodies to fit these frames? Perhaps David could answer this question better? Or would custom bodies be built just to fit these chassis?

This whole discussion is getting more interesting by the day, but still doesn't change the fact this is still the same old song and dance Carrol Shelby has always been known for. With all the discussion surrounding Shelby-Original cars, continuation cars, Anniversary cars, Completion cars, etc.... I guess the old adage applies here- "any press is good press" (paraphrased)

Bob

[David Kirkham]

Answers below in RED

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

The more I read about this new "venture" of SAI, the more torn I am about how to feel about it. There is no doubt having Kirkham involved in the manufacture of these cars will assure the highest quality of build and ability to work with the customer to option these cares in any way money can buy and I mean that in the most sincere sense.

However, from the OP's original point, unless someone can show absolute proof that these chassis were built in the 63-67 time period by AC, had the CSX stamped numbers, and all the other parts were original parts (including the body), I can't see any way these can be considered "completion" cars in any way related to the original production. Other than the fact that they will have many original parts and be detailed as close to perfection as Kirkham hands can make them, these are no more or less than highly optioned continuation cars that will be overpriced and have speculation surround them for as long as Cobras are being discussed.

I don't think anyone is claiming these are 60's chassis any more. Certainly Bill and Joe are NOT claiming that. Everyone knows Carroll sprinkled a little snake oil on the story of their origin. My feeling is that snake oil is just part of the Carroll Shelby story. It's just who he was. (There is actually more to the story...maybe one day.)

The chassis started to be built in the late 80's early 90's. I could find an exact date if I asked Mike. Either that or I could look at the date on the drawings Mike gave me so long ago. I have known Mike for 25 years now and he is a dear friend of mine.

The bottom line is they are art. You don't buy these things because they are the ultimate rocket ship to ecstasy. You probably don't even buy them to drive them. (Kirkhams drive much, much better than an original--just ask anyone who has driven both of them.) Guys who buy these likely have SEVERAL Cobras to choose from on any given day.

You own one because they are a unique part of history and because they are beautiful. You own one because they tell a truly wild, uniquely American story that starts in the 90's and still goes on today (just look how long this thread is). On top of all that--their beauty is timeless.



For the stratospheric pricing we can assume will be charged for these cars, they will never be "original" cars in the sense of the 60's cars. And the fact they are bastard children probably related to the fiasco Shelby was involved in in the 80's/90's? will instill a cloud over there existence.
The fact also that a third party is building them also takes away from their provenance, IMHO, as something represented as "completion" of the original series should be manufactured by the original manufacturer IMO.

Now, having Kirkham build these cars could be part of the plan and have some advantages. Since Shelby is selling the cars, but only supplying the parts they may have a plausible explanation to sell these cars in the same way as rollers are sold and a third party installs the drivetrain (and other options). This may make it possible to register them for the street which would be a huge advantage since there don't seem to be many race series that are well suited to Cobras these days and the only other use for an off road Cobra is as art or window dressing.

I am curious about a few things since I've scratch built my Cobra and am aware of the "shortcomings" of the original style frames and the Cobra Restorer's drawings which were patterned after the originals (and my chassis also built to these drawings, I assume). Since Kirkham has gone to considerable expense and trouble to build symmetrical chassis and bodies, doesn't that mean some modifications will have to be made to their bodies to fit these frames? Perhaps David could answer this question better? Or would custom bodies be built just to fit these chassis?

The Cobra Restorers drawings are horrible. I think they are pretty much unusable. I am not saying this to cast any dispersions on Chuck. I think Chuck is a great guy who has helped us tremendously over the years. Those drawing were really the best anyone had for a long, long time. In a way I am grateful for them as all those errors taught me a ton about CAD. (They were made long, long ago before CAD.)

Most of the chassis don't have sub-structure tubes on them so there won't be a problem putting our body on.

This whole discussion is getting more interesting by the day, but still doesn't change the fact this is still the same old song and dance Carrol Shelby has always been known for. With all the discussion surrounding Shelby-Original cars, continuation cars, Anniversary cars, Completion cars, etc.... I guess the old adage applies here- "any press is good press" (paraphrased)

Bob