American vs. Cheap - Page 7

misfit41 · #**121** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:01 AM

Vettestr,

On the money buddy in my opinion,,whats the old saying ? "Charity for all,tribute for none "we have become way to meek and uncaring,in a nut shell,life has been to easy for the average american of the last two generations,maybe having to dig in the back yard {if you have one}for a turnip to feed the family will wake us up,,Tim

bmalone · #**122** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:06 AM

Misfit, so true--Consumer Reports; a roadmap for the blind. THey are concerned with features more than anything else.

Gary, I too am related by marriage (Puerto Rican). Living in San Diego, I have found most Mexicans to be very hard-working. That is a discussion that could go on for hours--who will perform the low-paying jobs. America has always been a melting pot and at any given time in history you can look at a specific ethnic group and observe that they were on the bottom of the economic scale. Through hard work, each generation of families improves. That's the American way. The difference in this case, is lack of citizenship or proper papers.

SteveR, that is so true about NYC. I remember the riots in '68 as a boy--gun shots and all. Times Sq; what a miraculous tunraround. But, I think for much of the country it has gotten worse, not better.

Turk · #**123** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:10 AM

The number is 12-13 million!

If we can't control it now, and the cops are too busy, border patrol is overwhelmed, what do folks think is going to happen when there are 25 million? As long as the economic disparity between Mexico and US exists, there will be more where they came from.
It is not like every Mexican who wanted to come over is already here.

As young children over there are born into poverty and utter hopelessness, they too will be headed North in a few years. "Who can blame them"?

What do you all think is going to happen here in California, Arizona etc.?

Democrats have made a big stink about 3-4 million unemployed Americans. Hell with 12-13 million illegals here I wonder how many Americans would really be unemployed if the immigration was what it ought to be.

As long as the number is the millions do not for a moment think that politicos on either side will not want to find a way to tap into that voting block. We are not talking about a few here. MILLIONS!!

Most elections are won and lost by a lot smaller margin than that.

California's political future is sealed. They are or will be the majority. Legal Hispanics will champion the rights for those who were not as fortunate as themselves. Legislation will be in their favor, and in a short few years they will be able to do legally what they are having to do illegally now.
Cause for alarm? Neah.. Let it go Turk, Let it go!

Today it is boycott, and marching through the streets demanding Driver's Licenses.. You watch what will be next. VOTING and then it is all downhill from there.

It is not like US has hostile relationship with Mexico. It is not like we don't trade with them. It is not like we did not put factories there to help them and ourselves. It is not like NAFTA was a great triumph for US only.

Yet, Americans are having to defend their attitude toward the illegals. How ironic.

Why not look at the source for the reasons for the mass migration North. Why not chop the Mexican government to it's knees. The corruption of the ruling families, the inefficient government, the corrupt police and squandering of the resource of a beautiful country.
Why not attack them.

Screw China and Taiwan, if you are that concerned about our friends South of the border, keep them employed, make them more affluent. They are less likely to use the profits to build nuclear weapons.

TURK

PatBuckley · #**124** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:19 AM

What is the population of Mexico? If it is somewhat manageable and they like us so much why don't we make them the 51st state...we can assimilate the whole Mexican population easily - they're coming here anyway!

Lot's of warm, sunny, beaches....maybe we can move the US further South - kind of like a giant amoeba......

Of course we would have to re-name a lot of those cities. Some of them are a killer to pronounce.

Turk · #**125** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:26 AM

Pat,
That may very well be the best and the ONLY solution!

TURK.

foothills gary · #**126** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:36 AM

I read in the paper that a new study done at UCLA concluded that the "non citizens" of California should have the right to vote in the State's elections!I'll let you draw your own conclusions as to who did the study.I am amazed to hear politicos refer to the Constitutional rights of these scaliwags on a National level,not just in California.One thing you can bet on,this study will no doubt become gospel to our State representatives as they pander to gain more votes.Freeborn and naturalized Americans-you are being relegated to second class status by the very people who have pledged to represent you at the government level.It is at this point that our fine Representive Republic is being betrayed.They used to hang traitors back in the day.

CSX 4039 · #**127** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:41 AM

From what I've seen treating injured workers, in this part of the country most people who own companies which require hard/dirty/unpleasant laborer jobs like/ prefer to hire illegal Mexicans. They are the only ones who will work hard for $6.00/ hour. The legal residents who are elligible for welfare would never stoop to working that hard for that amount of money. They can "make" just as much if they stay unemployed and get free HUD housing, free Medicaid medical insurance, free food stamps, free baby food and vitamins (WIC program) and can buy a cheap $500/car, which the authorities never pull over for smog emissions (blue smoke), or no registration, insurance or current license plates. The only thing they have to pay for is the cable TV total sports package. Then, they scoff at the illegals who come clean up the toilet they plugged up with feminine hygiene products. Since the illegals can't vote, to get re-elected, we continue to pander to the free loaders. (I'm not suggesting illegals should have the right to vote, but, when the people who want to take from the government exceed the number of those who give to the government, there is an even bigger problem).

Turk · #**128** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 08:49 AM

Brett,
You just explained away in narrative, the mathematical.
You just illustrated bulk of the $35 Billion of California debt.

TURK

PatBuckley · #**129** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 09:14 AM

Gary -

If they can vote here surely we should be able to vote there? In which case we should be able to swing things our way! Of course we have a lousy record when it comes to the percentage of the popluation who actually cast a ballot so maybe it will be closer than I would think?

misfit41 · #**130** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 09:52 AM

In all seriousness.I think what we are really seeing is Change,I am sure there were guys just like us debating and griping about the railroads,Tv.Telephone,autos,electricity,italian immigrantsyou name it,constant change.
Sometimes it is hard to take ,or to understand,truth is most of it ends up being less dramatic then we think,just a flow into submission and life goes on.
This I see as VERY dramatic,after all the trouble to steal this great country from the indians ,make slaves out of the african americans to help build it, NOW we're going to GIVE it to the mexicans !
just dont make No M***** F****** Sense,,,lol,,Tim

bmalone · #**131** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 10:14 AM

Turk, I agree, the number is overwhelming. There are no solutions that would ever pass. Buckley for Lt. Gov.

KobraKarl · #**132** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 10:17 AM

Brett

That sounds about right........So lets take a few billion from the welfare budget to quadruple the INS ......then there will be plenty of jobs for those poor welfare recipients who cant find work.........and plenty of job seekers to fill those positions formerly too distasteful....

KK

misfit41 · #**133** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 10:41 AM

I am going to get out my old zztop cd and play mexican Blackbird,,hahah,,Long Live texas,,!!

CSX 4039 · #**134** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by KobraKarl

Brett

That sounds about right........So lets take a few billion from the welfare budget to quadruple the INS ......then there will be plenty of jobs for those poor welfare recipients who cant find work.........and plenty of job seekers to fill those positions formerly too distasteful....

KK

Its not that the jobs aren't there. My friends in business would rather hire legal citizens than illegals. They are a little bit scared of hiring illegals. They tell me they just can't get any of the legal citizens to apply for the jobs, or stay on the jobs for more than a week when they find out what they have to do, or, work on the job for more than a month without getting a Worker's Comp. injury! Thanks to them (the legals), I was able to buy a CSX.

The illegals rarely report an injury. They'll get fired with no recourse.

CSX 4039 · #**135** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Turk

Hummer people lined up to buy and pay over sticker has one of the worst CSI numbers of any car sold. Yet you all are lined up to buy one over other products. American buying public says one thing does something else. If quality mattered NO HUMMER should be sold, yet they are!! [/b]

No wonder they have so many defects. They were originally built to federal government specifications.

KobraKarl · #**136** (**permalink**) 12-13-2003, 05:15 PM

Brett ,

when we get a workman comp. claim ...we do an on site reveiw,re-enactment with the claimant.......sometimes we have to throw them down the stairs 3 or 4 times to make sure their claim is legit....

KK

RockSnake · #**137** (**permalink**) 12-16-2003, 04:09 PM

Whoa! I'm away from this post a couple days, and come-back to some real hot-buttons for me.

Steve R: I cannot imagine ANY school system or environment in this country that is safer now than it was 30-40 years ago. I attended public school under forced integration. Except for a couple minor incidents (school-yard scraps between 2 individuals), there was little friction, and certainly no threat to our safety. Contrast that to an incident about five years ago, my wife visited my son's high-school, and witnessed students throwing chairs at each other. Also, following the Columbine incident, the popular thing at school was to accuse fellow students of making threats. It got so bad the ACLU came to town to study why more than 50 students (without previous behavioral problems) had been sent to "alternative" schools. These were mostly very bright, well-behaved students, that didn't "fit in".

As for safety in the cities, the same son was knocked-off his bicycle (on our neighborhood street) by a car, and the b---- didn't even stop to help him off the ground (compound fractures of radius and ulna). Since then, my boys have not ridden on any street.

A study of New Yorkers asked how people planned to financial support retirement. Their #1 answer? the Lottery. The #2 answer? a big lawsuit. Somehow, Responsibility for one's actions, and a willingness to Work hard must find thier way back into our Nation.

Steve R · #**138** (**permalink**) 12-16-2003, 06:02 PM

R.Snake,
I don't doubt your experiences. The places I have lived in and seen have improved. Maybe it is a regional thing. I won't bore
you with more examples. (unless you want me to)

you wrote:following the Columbine incident, the popular thing at school was to accuse fellow students of making threats. It got
so bad the ACLU came to town to study why more than 50 students (without previous behavioral problems) had been sent to
"alternative" schools. These were mostly very bright, well-behaved students, that didn't "fit in".

I believe you. Have you ever heard of "The Wave" This is an organization that promotes those Hitler youth tactics. Here is a
link: http://www.waveamerica.com/waveline.html http://www.waveamerica.com/ It will make your blood
boil. It is basically a tip line to a private company that gathers information on people and builds profiles based on hearsay. the
caller is anonymous. Imagine this power to ruin someone's life in the hands of teenagers.

You wrote: " As for safety in the cities, the same son was knockoff his bicycle (on our neighborhood street) by a car, and the
b---- didn't even stop to help him off the ground "

Nearly the same thing happened to me when I was about 10 years old. I was Luckier though. I only had scrapes and bruises. Year 1974.
My cousin in Mountain Lakes N.J. was not so lucky. He suffered permanent brain damage from a hit and run. Year: around
1967 or so.

You wrote: "A study of New Yorkers asked how people planned to financial support retirement. Their #1 answer? the Lottery. The #2 answer? a big lawsuit. Somehow, Responsibility for one's actions, and a willingness to Work hard must find thier way back into our Nation."
That's probably true for most of the nation. You will get no argument from me. My Chinese Schwinn has allowed me to make a bigger contribution into my 401k

This thread started out about jobs in America. It got linked to the standard of living.( page 7, Turk and I) which has led to us talking about social isssssssues, about which I mostly agree with you.
Steve

Turk · #**139** (**permalink**) 12-16-2003, 07:42 PM

Steve R.

What about those workers who were laid off, and now spending their 401Ks?

No doubt, cheaper goods helps us all, unless we are one of those who lost our jobs, and with no hope for the future.

Take the example of United Airlines. What if they decided to do ALL their maint. in China. Including dead heading, they may very well be cheaper. They close down all their maint. facilities in major cities wherever they can.

Surely , that would help to the bottom line , how will it help the bottom line of those mechanics who are not working. My understanding is, most airlines are NOT hiring!!

TURK

Steve R · #**140** (**permalink**) 12-17-2003, 12:12 PM

Turk,

You wrote: "What about those workers who were laid off, and now spending their 401Ks?"
Those who do that while adapting to a new reality are demonstrating the self sufficiency that is needed to maintain our
capitalist system. They don't just become helpless wards of the state. That is not fun for sure, But in my humble opinion, it beats
the bread lines of communism, and the high unemployment rates of socialism.

You wrote:"No doubt, cheaper goods helps us all, unless we are one of those who lost our jobs, and with no hope for the
future." I just don't agree with the "the no hope for the future" part.

you wrote:
Take the example of United Airlines. What if they decided to do ALL their maint. in China. Including dead heading, they may very well be cheaper. They close down all their maint. facilities in major cities wherever they ." That would be logistically impractical. they would go bankrupt. The reality lies somewhere in between. It does make sense to farm out heavy checks. Had my company (Continental) not done this in the early 90's, they would be history. Who knows, I might have become one of your employees working on cars.

You wrote:"My understanding is, most airlines are NOT hiring!!"
The aviation industry is a boom or bust proposition. I knew this going into it. I have chosen to accept the risks because the rewards are so great. Someone with an A@P mechanic's license has a well recognized skill set and knowledge base that that is readily adaptable to many other industries.
Steve